ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: KISS Linux | https://k1sslinux.org | /msg zr for kisslinux/* cloaks | logs: https://k1sslinux.org/irc#2.0 | thing of the day: "pax"
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<testuser[m]> Hi
<GalaxyNova> hi testuser[m]
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<GalaxyNova> anyone here tried netsurf?
<GalaxyNova> the browser
<GalaxyNova> it seems pretty promising
<acheam> eh
<acheam> it's between two worlds and thus isnt very useful for me
<acheam> it has the same effectiveness as links
<acheam> links just doesnt display is as prettily
<testuser[m]> Netsurf supports js right ? Links doesn't
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<GalaxyNova> Anyone else having an issue with gtk context menues showing up weirdly?
<GalaxyNova> they keep getting pushed to the top left corner and out of view
<GalaxyNova> > tested on dwm and fvwm
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<GalaxyNova> anyone?
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<acheam> testuser[m]: it doesnt
<testuser[m]> sad
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<claudia> testuser[m]: I have made a minimal xorg-libs pkg for libglvnd.
<testuser[m]> Where ?
<claudia> This is my first draft. Dont know if it can be further reduced
<claudia> oh^^
<testuser[m]> Nice, will steal it
<testuser[m]> Shouldn't xtrans be rm -rf'd ?
<testuser[m]> Since itst make dep
<claudia> yaah. There is room for improvement ;)
<claudia> I think about renaming it to xorg-libs-minimal because maybe there is use for the whole xorg-libs for others.
<testuser[m]> There will be lot of duplicates in xorg-libs that already exist in xorg-libs-minimal
<testuser[m]> So they gotta change anyway
<claudia> Hm, also true. This way you dont have to change the depends.
<claudia> I also think about for pkgs in kiss-games needing libglvnd to just put them in a seperate directory and dont specify libglvnd in the depends. This way users still using xorg could use the packages and dont have to fork.
<claudia> An idea..
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<acheam> theres a lot to hate and to love about that
<acheam> its like links + javascript from what I can tell
<acheam> but its in rust
<acheam> and uses emojies in its commit messages
<acheam> and they use vscode
<acheam> but it still looks pretty cool
<testuser[m]> might as well use regular pozzed browsers in the time that it'd take you to build rust
<testuser[m]> hmm
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<dilyn> cool cool cool sooooo
<dilyn> $/kiss-community is changing with dylan's latest announcement :)
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<claudia> wuu
<claudia> dilyn: do you already have future plans on maintaining kiss-community?
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<micr0> dilyn: seems like kiss-community/community doesn't need to change much - just remove any duplicated-with kiss-linux/repo/extra packages that existed just for wayland support?
<dilyn> the officially unofficial KISS Linux community repository will be located at kiss-community/community, because Dylan has no intention of keeping one
<dilyn> the main repository will be 'archived' in some sense
<dilyn> I don't use xorg and have no interest in using it or providing support for it -- if someone would like to maintain a xorg repository in kiss-community, they are more than welcome to it!
<micr0> kiss-community/repo can be 'archived', though it might be nice to be able to upstream all the updates into kisslinux/repo ?
<claudia> I think now kiss-community/community is now the official community repository. At least from this community :D
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<dilyn> it'll be archived in the sense that it won't be the official main repository and people should be discouraged from using it if they want to use Dylan's supported KISS. ideally, it's a libressl-xorg repository, maintaining packages that have to be changed from kisslinux/repo to continue this support, and not a whole other upstream repository
<dilyn> if nobody has any interest in maintaining such a thing, then it WILL be archived in a literal sense, though I'll probably be keeping a copy of it around on my system 'just in case'
<micr0> dilyn: archived in the literal sense === press the archive button on github but yeah, keep a second copy just in case
<micr0> dilyn a quick check, it looks like gnugrep, json-c, mutt, pcre, and ssu in the /community repository conflicts with upstream kisslinux/repo/extra
<micr0> should I make a tracking github issue to take a look at what the changes are, and if they should be upstreamed or removed?
<micr0> ideally, nothing in /community would conflict with anything in kisslinux/repo/{core,extra,wayland}
<claudia> dilyn: my question also aimed at: dou you plan on being my beloved dictator for eventually additionally needed packages?
<claudia> <3
<dilyn> well luckily for us, today is the day of Yet Another Purge :D so we can take a look at those and drop them
<dilyn> I am the beloved dictator of very little, now! <3
<dilyn> but i agree that there shouldn't be any conflicts if we can help it, micr0. duplicate packages are a waste of 'our time' when they can be found at $/kisslinux
<micr0> i'll take a look to see what the diffs are
<dilyn> tyty
<micr0> gnugrep: no pragmatic difference (just changed install to use cp in build): can be dropped
<dilyn> the kiss-community organization can also now be expanded, because we aren't so strictly beholden to the guidestones! community/ will still defer to the guidestones, but other repositories could now live there
<dilyn> for instance, gkiss could have a new officially unofficial home
<micr0> json-c: checksum update: can be dropped from community
<micr0> mutt: inline cyrus-sasl build, remove perl dependency: there is a difference, but would reccomend dropping from community.
<dilyn> +1
<konimex> since I'm maintaining json-c, I would recommend immediate drop
<micr0> pcre: disable utf-8 support: i got mixed feelings about this. utf-8 support in regular expressions is useful. would like to see this upstreamed into kisslinux/extra
<micr0> I am gonna make a PR with the uncontroversial drops, and ping you konimex to :thumbsup: or whatever
<micr0> ssu: no functional difference, reccomend drop
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<noocsharp> you can drop mutt too, i'm the maintainer
<micr0> thank you konimex and noocsharp
<jslick> Does foot-pgo provide some realized performance benefit over foot? Interesting that it is treated special in the main repo
<konimex> also, with fribidi dropped from the main repo, I just discovered that fribidi is a GNU package
<dilyn> jslick: it's slightly/noticeably faster in some situations. I don't think it technically has to be a different package; dilyn could do like the `cmake` package does for instance
<dilyn> s/dilyn/dylan woop
<dilyn> konimex: those gnu packages are sneaky :)
<noocsharp> hehe
<jslick> ah good to know
<micr0> upgrading eiwd; hope it doesn't break
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<testuser[m]> dilyn: btw qt5 needs mtdev (looking at deps file) and it's been dropped by dylan and bundled with libinput or some package
<testuser[m]> eudev too, but thats just a regular package drop
<dilyn> yeah, vendoring is troublesome. :)
<micr0> rip osh: why did it get dropped dilyn?
<micr0> also is git-bruh in irc?
<testuser[m]> Me
<micr0> testuser[m] i just checked the logs for community, said you were last to drop osh, but not sure why?
<dilyn> it was... claudias?
<dilyn> and they wanted to dorp their stuff
<testuser[m]> It would be orphaned anyway if you wouldn't have notified that you couldn't maintain it, so it would've been dropped a few weeks later
<micr0> ohh right, this was in february
<micr0> time flew too quickly for me. well, can re-add osh for now will make a new pr
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<micr0> I think I might have found out why sway/wayland crashes when dependencies are installed
<micr0> > The primary difference between install and cp is that if the destination file already exists install unlinks it first.
<micr0> > More probable scenario is that you update a program or a library while it is in use. If the binary is unlinked first, it won't affect the running program
<micr0> I am gonna test this theory by updating how kiss installs packages to use the `install` command, and see if that prevents the crash
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<dilyn> `install` in foo/build shouldn't have any bearing on when foo is installed -- `kiss` still uses `cp` itself
<dilyn> or do you mean exactly what I just said :o
<dilyn> woop
<kyxor> Hi, did anyone make a package for this https://github.com/google/re2 maybe in one of your personal repos? I need it, so if not I'll make it myself. But asking just in case to save time
<micr0> yeah, but we specify `cp -f` which should be the same unlinking behavior as install
<micr0> so my next best guess is that, we do pkg_remove_files while installing
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<micr0> oh, `cp -fP` is still incorrect. Trying `install` now with kiss build pango
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<micr0> yeah okay, switching to `install` seems to have worked
<micr0> i reinstalled: glib, pango, cairo, wayland, and sway while in a sway session
<micr0> and no crash
<dilyn> unfortunately dylan worked very hard to *remove* install from `kiss`...
<micr0> this is busybox install, in the package manager
<micr0> its fine if all the packages themselves use cp, since its always installing to a staging area
<micr0> the other alternative, which may also come with performance improvements, is to see if tar x has options that act like `install` does, and use that instead of iterating over each file
<testuser[m]> oh dylan deleted kisslinux/community
<cem> yeah, honestly switching from rsync slowed down the package manager so much
<cem> I reverted that change in my fork when he did that
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<micr0> cem dilyn well I will open an issue explaining the problem (our current `cp -fP` crashes running software if you replace any dependencies)
<micr0> And id be disappointed (but not surprised) if it was not fixed one way or another (using install, rsync, or doing the correct kind of unlinking with cp)
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<testuser[m]> Is install different than rm + cp ?
<dilyn> avoid rsync at all costs :v
<micr0> testuser[m] yes, see backscroll if you can linking to stackexchange, which also links to a deeper discussion
<testuser[m]> > Why unlinking (which can be also done by rm before cp) matters?
<testuser[m]> Doesn't this imply that they do the same
<micr0> I think `cp -f` only has the behavoir *IF* it encounters an EPERM error
<cem> dilyn: why? rsync is great :P
<testuser[m]> I said rm + cp
<micr0> so it will do unlinking if EPERM; which insinuates that cp is not encountering EPERM currently
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<dilyn> rsync is DUM
<dilyn> if your program has 600 options it has too many options.
<dilyn> I should not have to pipe --help to `less` so i can figure out what to do
<cem> I mean
<cem> Fair
<micr0> I don't think it will be too hard to convince dylan to use install, since its part of busybox
<dilyn> gl
<cem> micr0: heh
<micr0> "its the users fault to expect their system to not crash while upgrading software" would be a pretty hostile attitude to take
<dilyn> KISS *is* a semi-hostile project in a sense...
<dilyn> the user is expected to 'have a brain', as it were
<testuser[m]> if he doesn't settle for install (probably won't) he'll definitely fix it in another way
<micr0> Thats more what I am hoping for - i dont care *how* it gets fixed, but would be surprised if it didnt get fixed some way
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<micr0> I prefer computers that respect the user is a human, and that brains are fallable
<cem> dilyn: I mean, being hostile as a project is very different than not fixing bugs on purpose
<dilyn> tru
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<micro_O> honestly I love the direction kiss is moving in, example https://kisslinux.xyz/package-manager#6.2 linked from latest https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/issues/273
<Guest5117> will kiss-community/repo shutdown, or will it continue development parallel to kisslinux/repo?
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<micro_O> zola I think dilyn intends to 'archive' it.
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<dilyn> *sigh*
<micr0> feels good to only have kiss orphans show one package :)
<dilyn> we're gonna have to just save a copy-pasta, huh
<micr0> surprised no one added a bot here for commands
<dilyn> kissbot was brutally murdered
<micr0> an irc bot is like, one of the best 'first programming project'
<micr0> dilyn the mob got to kissbot?
<root__> dilyn: Does firefox in bin repo have wayland support, if not will it get it?
<vulpine> wait dylanaraps is back? :o
<root__> Yes, for some time already
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<dilyn> repo-bin does not have wayland support
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<kyxor> do you guys recommend to switch to wayland? If that thing is less bloat and compiles faster than X I might consider it
<kyxor> Still its a big commitment for me, since all my aps are written for x11, and I don't know anything about wayland protocol which I would need to learn to rewrite them
<kyxor> also that news of gcc getting rust frontend or whatever, like why I just want a C compiler not this bs
<kyxor> free software is under attack by those rust guys... trying to stick themselves in every project. Just like c++ guys but worse
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<claudia> kyxor: It mostly comes down on what programs you rely gui wise and how they are supported.
<claudia> E.g there is no gtk2
<claudia> but gtk+3 is fine for prob the most stuff.
<kyxor> Hopefully repo-main under community stays though, and those who want wayland can just use the Dylan's repo-main
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<dilyn> xorg support in kiss-community repo-main will only exist if someone maintains it. I don't use xorg (and haven't for a long, long while), so I can't guarantee much about it
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<dilyn> https://github.com/kiss-community/community/issues/197 pass one on The Purge(tm) has ocurred; there are two programs that we probably should keep around tho
<dilyn> lvm2 && libcap; i'd rather not maintain them, I don't use them or any of their dependencies
<dilyn> this would fall to konimex/onodera-punpun (lvm2), and testuser/xuxiaodong (libcap)
<dilyn> also test-user you should probably take pcre2 (android-tools)
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<GalaxyNova> how would i go about switching to Dylan's upstream
<GalaxyNova> without borking my system
<noocsharp> rebuild everything that depends on libressl
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<GalaxyNova> should i force remove libressl
<noocsharp> i mean you could, but you have to rebuild everything that depends on it anyway
<dilyn> depends on what the output of kiss-revdepends libressl is
<dilyn> git and curl should only have libressl as make deps and no part of the actual build system should require libressl, so nothing should break. theoretically.
<dilyn> so i'd just kiss r libressl; kiss b $(kiss-revdepends libressl)
<illiliti> is there any non-bloated image viewer on wayland?
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<dilyn> imv maybe?
<illiliti> imv depends on icu
<illiliti> bloated
<dilyn> lol
<dilyn> mpv?
<illiliti> mpv is good, but it isn't a "proper" image viewer though
<dilyn> I don't think many others exist that don't require KDE...
<dilyn> you could always try to gut icu from imv probably...
<dilyn> don't know why it would need icu tbh
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<illiliti> "proper UTF-8 editing"
<illiliti> wth
<dilyn> ez
<dilyn> git revert 42a15b157827dbd9c981416c8919ce5f5c907331
<illiliti> on it
<kyxor> hey guys, i am trying out wayland but sway fails to build, here is the log: https://0x0.st/-OL_.txt
<kyxor> using the last commit of dylan repo
<kyxor> need to rebuid libinput
<kyxor> ok I was right, nvm then
<GalaxyNova> welp...
<GalaxyNova> I think I might have ruined my system
<GalaxyNova> rip
<kyxor> what happened Galaxy?
<GalaxyNova> tried switching to OpenSSL
<GalaxyNova> now git is broken and nothing will build
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<kyxor> uh, that's why I am testing wayland on tmpfs (temporary copy of rootfs), so that I don't break my main system
<kyxor> and pretty much any package development or whatever I do on tmpfs so that in case shit happens I don't have to clean out junk and broken stuff from my main rootfs
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<GalaxyNova> my irc client crashed lol
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<dilyn> what do you mean 'git is broken'?
<dilyn> what are you trying to build that you need git to be working
<illiliti> imv without icu - https://termbin.com/1dai
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<GalaxyNova> where is links2 packaged again?
<illiliti> dilyn: pcre should be dropped too
<dilyn> i thought it had been
<dilyn> done ty
<dilyn> links2 was previously packaged in community and is now dead because nobody wanted it :v
<GalaxyNova> :(
<dilyn> so `git revert 34953374febddbe14c862afde3e8514980c4197f` is your golden ticket
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<GalaxyNova> also sway for some reason is refusing to build on my system but it's working in a clean kiss chroot
<kyxor> rebuild libinput?
<GalaxyNova> seems like it's something else: https://0x0.st/-O9b.txt
<GalaxyNova> ld is failing
<kyxor> eh I think this might be best time to use kiss-reset, though because I can't build foot properly it says something fcft.h not found
<GalaxyNova> yep
<kyxor> oh rebuild libffi
<dilyn> /usr/bin/ld: /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so: undefined reference to `ffi_type_sint32@LIBFFI_BASE_7.0'
<dilyn> would be your problem
<dilyn> kiss b $(kiss owns /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so)
<kyxor> yeah
<kyxor> but rebuild libffi cause it seems like that library is not providing symbol for glib, or vise versa rebuild glib
<GalaxyNova> dilyn: Thanks! it sway builds now
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<dilyn> ffi recently saw an update that resulted in libffi.so.7 becoming libffi.so.8, and of course their build system didn't provide any 7 -> 8 symlink.
<dilyn> so anything linking against libffi7 symbols mysteriously lost them :)
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<GalaxyNova> wait what
<GalaxyNova> I've just noticed something interesting
<GalaxyNova> in the new website on the of the items in the overview is gone
<GalaxyNova> the one that said "less software"
<GalaxyNova> it's still there in k1sslinux.org
<rio6> lots of side items are gone it seems
<GalaxyNova> is that supposed to mean anything?
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