<midfavila-laptop>
that person could really afford to downsize their images
<illiliti>
midfavila-laptop: are you sure that your gateway(router) has a proper dhcp server?
<midfavila-laptop>
Yes. Even then, I don't see why that would matter.
<midfavila-laptop>
The routing table is locally created, is it not?
<midfavila-laptop>
And even then, I'm using a static network configuration.
<illiliti>
try to run iwd manually with -d flag
<illiliti>
this should give you verbose info
<midfavila-laptop>
Yeah, I know. I've already got it outputting debug information to my system log.
<midfavila-laptop>
There's nothing.
<midfavila-laptop>
Complains that I don't have Diffie-Hellman in the kernel and says that WPS will be disabled, but that's not used for routing information...
<midfavila-laptop>
the only stuff that's relevant is this
<midfavila-laptop>
netconfig: Failed to add route for: 192.l68.1.1 gateway.
<midfavila-laptop>
netconfig: Failed to install IPv4 routes
<vbt>
sorry, i missed context. somebody care to explain it to me?
<riteo>
dylan burnt out and disappeared
<riteo>
in the meantime dilyn took control and continued the distro
<riteo>
now dylan's back and has been updating his own repo, we still don't know why though
<riteo>
eventually he'll tell us his plans
<riteo>
there's no fake distro really
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<riteo>
the only difference is the repo for the package manager and the core packages, there's only one community repo
<riteo>
slight differences here and there in the core really, but basically they're the same, feel free to use either remote
* GalaxyNova
Dylan's KISS is a lot more worked on
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<GalaxyNova>
Dylan's kiss is a lot more worked on too
<GalaxyNova>
test
<vbt>
oh, cannot both merge like before?
<GalaxyNova>
nope
<testuser[m]>
Wait since eudev is gone should all stuff hard depending on it like android-tools be removed ? Dilyn
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<GalaxyNova>
alright
<GalaxyNova>
back on weechat
<GalaxyNova>
inset never again meme
<GalaxyNova>
s/inset/insert
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<GalaxyNova>
weechat "just werks"
<GalaxyNova>
and it's not THAT bloated
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<testuser[m]>
Use irc.c
<GalaxyNova>
for some reason my network is really unstable
<GalaxyNova>
anything without some kind of timeout time feature is just not going to work :(
<GalaxyNova>
midfavila-latop: You have links (the web browser) packaged right?
<GalaxyNova>
riteo: Dylan got back to me on github
<GalaxyNova>
apparently the kiss hook thing was not meant to be in the tarball
<schillingklaus>
midfavila has especially sxhkd packaged
<GalaxyNova>
what is sxhdkd?
<GalaxyNova>
dilyn: neovim depends on pkgconf to build
<riteo>
GalaxyNova: oh I see
<riteo>
I was probably overanalyzing then lol
<GalaxyNova>
pkgconf should probablty be set as a make dep
<GalaxyNova>
riteo: ye lol
<GalaxyNova>
he still posts the contents of the script in the release changelog though
<GalaxyNova>
just didn't make any sense to have it in the tarball
<riteo>
well thinking about it the fact that it was in the root directory was weird
<riteo>
but I don't agree completely on the doesn't make any sense part
<riteo>
it's cool to have the exact recipe for creating the tarball inside the rootfs and IMO it fits well with the rest of KISS' spirit
<riteo>
but well, it might already be a full script in that case
<GalaxyNova>
wait so what happened with eudev?
<GalaxyNova>
is it dropped?
<testuser[m]>
Ye
<testuser[m]>
From dylan repo
<schillingklaus>
is mdev or sdev not able to replace eudev?
<GalaxyNova>
But why does it have to be dropped
<GalaxyNova>
can't we just move it to community
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<testuser[m]>
Yeah
<testuser[m]>
Dylan removed eiwd and some stuff too
<schillingklaus>
what does eiwd do?
<testuser[m]>
duckduckgo
<testuser[m]>
iwd without dbus stuff
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<GalaxyNova>
What is the least bloated web browser
<GalaxyNova>
that is preferably in community
<testuser[m]>
Links2
<testuser[m]>
i use it most of the time, chromium for unavoidable pozzed js sites rarely
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<testuser[m]>
Lariza/badwolf use webshit so that's a tiny bit less bloated than ff/chromium
<testuser[m]>
No other options
<GalaxyNova>
sadly :(
<testuser[m]>
(Not including qt5-webengine cuz it's chromium)
<GalaxyNova>
wish there were more minimalist browsers
<GalaxyNova>
qt5-webengine qutebrowser would be good
<GalaxyNova>
i might package it
<testuser[m]>
That's the complete opposite of minimal, cuz qute adds python and shitton of deps on top of qt5
<schillingklaus>
qutebrowser can be controlled with the keyboard, which is paramount
<testuser[m]>
It was packaged earlier in some commits, you should be able to update it
<GalaxyNova>
is it still in community?
<GalaxyNova>
or was it dropped
<testuser[m]>
Dropped
<GalaxyNova>
oof
<GalaxyNova>
why
<testuser[m]>
Idk, I had revived it few months back but didn't submit it cuz too much mess
<GalaxyNova>
unfortunate
<GalaxyNova>
would 200% have that instead of chromium
<GalaxyNova>
what are the alternatives
<schillingklaus>
most of these 1000 options are just versions for different charsets and resolution
<schillingklaus>
oooops wrong channel
<GalaxyNova>
lol
<testuser[m]>
<GalaxyNova "would 200% have that instead of "> But it's literally chromium with qt5 integration :/
<GalaxyNova>
so is it actually more bloated than chromium?
<GalaxyNova>
bc it has extra integration?
<testuser[m]>
A bit i guess, cuz it adds dependency on qt5 which is huge
<GalaxyNova>
that sucks..
<schillingklaus>
why does chromium not depend on qt?
<GalaxyNova>
Idealy i would want something that can be controlled by the keyboard and can display websites like github while still being reasonably lightweight
<GalaxyNova>
I can't afford to go full midfavila unfortunately :D
<jstnas>
I use picom with dwm, would a compositor need to be built into dwl to get stuff like transparency?
<midfavila-laptop>
almost certainly not
<midfavila-laptop>
X compositors are almost universally used seperately from window managers
<midfavila-laptop>
save Compiz and Beryl
<jstnas>
yup, and is the same for wayland?
<testuser[m]>
justinas dwl IS the compositor
<midfavila-laptop>
Oh, no
<dbz>
for sway it's not required, it just works
<midfavila-laptop>
Wayland only has the concept of compositors. As far as I'm aware, there are no non-compositing window systems that implement wayland.
<jstnas>
that's what I'm confused about, if I want compositing effects, does dwl have to implement them
<midfavila-laptop>
Yes.
<testuser[m]>
Yeah
<midfavila-laptop>
As does every other wayland compositor. Now if only we had figured out a way to use compositors and window managers seperately...
<midfavila-laptop>
alas
<midfavila-laptop>
Such duplication of effort cannot be avoided
<jstnas>
yeah, having them separate would be nice
* midfavila-laptop
coughs in X11
<midfavila-laptop>
oh
<midfavila-laptop>
also
<midfavila-laptop>
re: Links2 GalaxyNova
<midfavila-laptop>
yes
<midfavila-laptop>
i have it packaged
<midfavila-laptop>
there's also a patch to add tabbed support
<midfavila-laptop>
(just looking through the channel logs rn)
<midfavila-laptop>
re:nyxt on kiss, good fucking luck. i spent three hours reconfiguring KISS' GTK3 stack and I had to give up and use guix to install nyxt
<midfavila-laptop>
although fwiw with webkit it was surprisingly snappy
<midfavila-laptop>
re:issue 270 testuser[m] I'll probably fork the xorg directory and combine it with my current repo
<midfavila-laptop>
also no, I don't have anything for notifications, and even then I don't sleep in the same room as my PCs
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<midfavila>
anyway, gonna go do some work. ping me if I'm needed
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<dilynm>
Testuser: eudev should be in community.
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* acheam
just kiss forked all the xorg packages he uses
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* claudia
does the happydance because using wayland while sticking to base is awesome.
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<kqz[m]>
i dont mind the openssl change, the amount of workarounds and patches to keep things compatible with libressl was getting intense
<schillingklaus>
how about bear ssl?
<kqz[m]>
the same problem, but on steroids
<kqz[m]>
also doing the happy dance for wayland o/
<akira01>
I will force myself to use wayland
<jstnas>
reading about wayland, X looks bloated, but idk about the monolithic design
<akira01>
I mean the code is bloat
<schillingklaus>
no way will i do the wayland dance, it is anti-unixish par excellence
<akira01>
But 50mb to get wallpaper
<akira01>
This is much bloat
<kqz[m]>
how is the wayland code bloat? have you looked at any wayland code?
<kqz[m]>
that's a limitation of gdk-pixbuf (in swaybg)
<akira01>
I said code bloat about xorg
<akira01>
wayland is more advanced in code
<akira01>
Is this the objective of wayland
<schillingklaus>
now stallman needs to introduce emacs as a wayland compositor
<kqz[m]>
lol no, you need more to get up and running with a wayland compositor, but the code is incredibly simple
<kqz[m]>
and creating a wayland client is incredibly easy
<akira01>
Yeah the code is simple
<akira01>
is more sane to modify than xorg
<akira01>
but why this shit is getting more resources
<kqz[m]>
>.> no, this is the whole reason why wayland exists
<kqz[m]>
the xorg codebase is an archaic mess
<akira01>
yes
<micro_O_>
practically speaking there is a lot more boilerplate needed to get 'basic' features when making a wayland compositor; so many people end up using wlroots anyway
<akira01>
anyone had tell dylan about swc?
<akira01>
i think is more sane to use it than sway
<kqz[m]>
why swc over sway? it's nice but very limited
<akira01>
is more simple
<micro_O_>
i thought swc is a library, not even a wm?
<akira01>
velox
<kqz[m]>
"swc is a small Wayland compositor implemented as a library."
<micro_O_>
yeah that makes more sense
<kqz[m]>
also no radeon support in wld :(
<akira01>
wtf
<akira01>
So i can't use my radeon cards in wayland?
<kqz[m]>
not with wld (and by extension swc)
<akira01>
shit
<kqz[m]>
anything else that uses mesa is fine though
<akira01>
i will force myself to change mind
<akira01>
goodbye my 130mb system
<kqz[m]>
most wayland comps are incredibly lightweight
<akira01>
yeah but i dont think is more than xorg
<akira01>
i expect i was wronf
<akira01>
anyway
<kqz[m]>
i haven't used xorg n years so i have no direct refrence, but i've had ~70mb on startup using sway
<kqz[m]>
and there was certainly room to trim, i run a more bloated setup than most :D
<akira01>
kqz[m]: you are testuser?
<kqz[m]>
no, i am kqz
<akira01>
ah
<akira01>
had cards you use?
<akira01>
what*
<kqz[m]>
like gpu? i have a 6900 xt atm
<akira01>
so maybe i can support wayland
<kqz[m]>
as long as you aren't on nvidia and fine using noveau
<kqz[m]>
s|and|and/or|g
<testuser[m]>
nvidia proprietary works too, there's a wlroots fork that has eglstreams support
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<Guest52>
testuser[m]: Me too, but I have no hardware acceleration on Chromium
<Guest52>
It's still worse in performance than chromium
<testuser[m]>
Yeah ff is pretty bad
<testuser[m]>
I told you that yours was using swift shader renderer right ? Did you look into it ?
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<acheam>
little help here would be appreciated
<acheam>
I borked ncurses
<acheam>
and becuase clang was linked to it
<Guest52>
yes, he does use it. but i didn't understand how to disable it :)
<acheam>
I can't compile anything
<acheam>
nvm
<acheam>
remembered that kiss-static has a GCC binary
<testuser[m]>
Did you purge ~/.cache/kiss/bin ?
<acheam>
its a bit more complicated than that
<acheam>
I was playing around with netbsd-curses
<acheam>
so the cached bin is netbsd-curses
<acheam>
WAIT
<acheam>
no it isnt! because they are different versions
<testuser[m]>
Lol
<acheam>
nvm nvm
<testuser[m]>
why do llvm/clang use ncurses to show colors ? Gcc does it fine without it
<acheam>
the package is broken lol
<testuser[m]>
Bruh
<GalaxyNova>
clang/llvm is so bloated
<GalaxyNova>
which is sad because it's the only non GNU usable compiler
<testuser[m]>
gcc isn't anywhere near minimal either though
<GalaxyNova>
but it's way more minimal than clang/llvm
<acheam>
okay is fixed now. Thanks to dilyns kiss static bins
<testuser[m]>
They're not really directly comparable cuz with gcc you just have a compiler, but llvm provides a lib for compiler backends for other langs, is a native cross compiler, and clang has extra tools like clang-format
<testuser[m]>
I've had some weird behaviour trying to use netbsd curses instead of ncurses, like calling mvwdelch() left lot of black spots in place of the deleted ch, and cmus kept segfaulting
<testuser[m]>
First is probably a me issue and second might be a portability one, idk
<acheam>
yeah given the amount of curses programs I use it probably wouldnt work too well for me
<acheam>
i've heard similar reports from dilyn
<acheam>
but the *simplicity*
<acheam>
hmm heres a weird issue
<acheam>
running st, then opening dvtm in it is fine
<acheam>
running st -e dvtm fails though
<acheam>
i'm messing around with my terminfo database, so it is definitely something to do with that
<acheam>
but why exactly? I do not know
<acheam>
nvm rebuilding st fixed it
<acheam>
I should really try debugging more before posting here
<noocsharp>
has anyone packaged fontforge?
<acheam>
not to my knowlege but it doesnt look *that* bad to package
<acheam>
just a few minor deps to package
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<eudaldgr>
what will happens to kisslinux-community-edition, now dylan is back?
<eudaldgr>
hi everyone
<acheam>
hey eudaldgr
<acheam>
dont see you round here much
<acheam>
nobody knows right now is the answer
<acheam>
dilyn has already shared everything he knows
<acheam>
and dylan hasnt been very explanatory
<eudaldgr>
i don't use kisslinux since dylan disapeared
<acheam>
but it sounds like he is expecting people to return to his repo
<acheam>
neither do I
<acheam>
I am not a fan of the changes he's made
<eudaldgr>
well, so now this is a fork
<eudaldgr>
what changes?
<acheam>
nothing?
<acheam>
has anybody had trouble with git diff --stat and busybox less?
<noocsharp>
i don't think he "expects" anything, it's in the philosophy kiss
<acheam>
noocsharp: expects was maybe the wrong word
<acheam>
anticipates, maybe
<kqz[m]>
he said he's going to make an announcement soon in his last blog post
<kqz[m]>
(dylan)
<acheam>
oh you're on matrix now?
<kqz[m]>
yeah trying it out lol, i like it so far
<acheam>
"I want to make breaking changes before people change their remotes back en masse.
<acheam>
"
<acheam>
which is where I got anticipates/expects from
<eudaldgr>
you don't like openssl or wayland?
<rio6>
k1sslinux.org sounds more official than kisslinux.xyz XD
<kqz[m]>
i like kisslinux.xyz :D never was a fan of the numbers
<eudaldgr>
official or not, dylan version it's the original
<acheam>
so
<noocsharp>
where are people getting wayland from?
<rio6>
will the k1sslinux.org be transferreed to dylan?
<acheam>
he would have asked for it if he wanted it IMO
<kqz[m]>
(nobody knows)
<acheam>
we've offered it to him
<acheam>
tbh i dont really care
<acheam>
if whatever ends up happening, i'm not a fan of, i'm a kiss fork away from being on my own
<kqz[m]>
yeah same, dylan is free to do what he wants with the distro, doesn't change what im doing much im just here to leech good ideas
<eudaldgr>
i respect what people do all this time here, but i onboarded because i like how dylan makes the distro
<eudaldgr>
so sad if this two would be a diferent project
<kqz[m]>
you're free to switch over to his repos then, the beauty of kiss™
<rio6>
everyone's kiss is basically their own fork already :P
<kqz[m]>
yeah, it's an incredibly simple distro to manage lol, you're not going to be getting colossal changes from an ownership change, that's the whole point
<eudaldgr>
that's true
<acheam>
oh I didn't see all the progress that has been made in the last 12 hours or so
<acheam>
yeah I definitely don't want openssl
<acheam>
and wayland is... maybe
<acheam>
so I will for sure be forking
<noocsharp>
wayland is the way
<noocsharp>
it's in the name
<acheam>
lol
<rio6>
it's also the land
<rio6>
whatever that means
<kqz[m]>
i was going to switch to openssl myself anyways, and already on wayland, so i am very comfy rn
<eudaldgr>
i don't feel comfortable about the openssl change, but i need to read more about that
<eudaldgr>
thanks for replying, I came just to know about the upcoming changes and if it was worth trying kiss again
<acheam>
this leaves me with.... 117 packages to fork
<kqz[m]>
ahaha, yeah that's why i haven't jumped into the openssl switch myself yet either
<GalaxyNova>
why the switch anyway
<acheam>
python 3.10
<acheam>
drops support for libressl
<acheam>
i plan to stay on 3.9 for as long as possible
<GalaxyNova>
can't we just patch it
<acheam>
its a biiig thing to patch
<acheam>
although mcf says he wants to patch it
<acheam>
and I trust his capabilities
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<GalaxyNova>
that's unfortunate
<GalaxyNova>
kiss is one of the last distros with libressl
<GalaxyNova>
gentoo, void, alpine all switched to openssl
<schillingklaus>
but wayland is still a nogo
<GalaxyNova>
is open more heavy than libressl?
<GalaxyNova>
libre is mantained by the openbsd guys so i would assume it's the most kiss option
<acheam>
we'll they're both lightweight
<noocsharp>
mcf would add bearssl support, not maintain libressl support
<acheam>
but libressl is much smaller
<schillingklaus>
what has openbsd have to do with kiss?
<GalaxyNova>
libressl was originally made for openbsd right?
<acheam>
noocsharp: oh I must be misremembering what he said
<acheam>
GalaxyNova: yes
<GalaxyNova>
schillingklaus: Both have the same minimalist philosophies ig
<noocsharp>
acheam: oh wait, you're right
<noocsharp>
but i imagine bearssl is the longterm play
<acheam>
i'd love it to be
<schillingklaus>
isn't openbsd mainly about security?
<acheam>
bearssl is awesome
<acheam>
schillingklaus: security is a byproduct of code quality
<noocsharp>
compared to bearssl, openssl and libressl are giant
<noocsharp>
it's all relative
<noocsharp>
with less code, there's less room for mistakes
<noocsharp>
with simpler code that's easier to understand, there's less room for mistakes
<GalaxyNova>
indeed
<noocsharp>
the openssl/libressl debate is unfortunately pointless, because they both have the same poorly designed apis that unfortunately everyone uses
<noocsharp>
it would be better for people to use libtls or something simpler
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<homer>
Anyone using Wayland? I want to switch to it but I haven't found a compositor/shell that provides similar functionality to FVWM/JWM.
<GalaxyNova>
I currently use DWM
<GalaxyNova>
doubt many people on here are using wayland
<GalaxyNova>
unfortunately that will have to change in the near future as Dylan has decided he'll drop xorg support from the main repositories
<GalaxyNova>
dilyn: How do you feel about the changes
<GalaxyNova>
Personally I would rather stick with Xorg for the next 5+ years
<homer>
Wayfire is the only compositor I have my eyes on but I haven't found any good shells for it. Dylan's right though Xorg isn't long for the world in the near future. Could a window manager be ran under Xwayland & use VNC to interact with native wayland apps in a X11 enviroment?
<schillingklaus>
wayfire is only for mouselovers
<rio6>
I don't think it's a big deal since we can still have a xorg repo for all the xorg stuff
<homer>
gulty as charged. :/
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<GalaxyNova>
All the wayland compositors I've come across are all very bloated
<GalaxyNova>
I wont switch to sway in 100 years
<rio6>
btw, does anyone know how input method (like xim) work in wayland
<homer>
in what way? I suppose your speaking of memory usage?
<GalaxyNova>
yes
<schillingklaus>
therefore I will keep on boycotting wayland, even if it means stopping to use computers altogether within a few years
<GalaxyNova>
also wayland has never been a flawless experience for me using nouveau
<GalaxyNova>
I really don't feel like switching from libressl + Xorg to OpenSSL + Wayland :/
<homer>
Correct me if I'm wrong but the high memory usage is because compositing double buffers a frame and since that stuff is stored in memory or video memory it appears bloated?
<GalaxyNova>
wayland doesn't have the diversity of window managers either
<GalaxyNova>
homer: Don't know how wayland works but I've yet to come across a wayland compositor that can rival the resource usage of something like sowm or DWM
<claudia>
homer: you can use sway as a floating wm.
<mqrris>
Hello everyone, I'm in the middle of installing kiss and I can't choose between init systems, my only preference is that it needs to be as minimal as possible ofc, can some of you help?
<claudia>
Also spawn every window as floating.
<claudia>
Then there is also hikari (stacking floating wm ala cwm)
<GalaxyNova>
mqrris: hummingbird
<GalaxyNova>
but say goodbye to features
<GalaxyNova>
i use busybox init
<homer>
claudia; does Sway allow for a titlebar with buttons to control a window? I have kiss installed on a laptop with a shitty chiclet keyboard so I'm not keen on using the keyboard if I can help it.
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<claudia>
Sway can have window titlebars, when in tabbed mode. But not on sway or i3 so i cant answer in detail. There is a super i3 manual which goes for sway aswell(drop in replacement)
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<GalaxyNova>
It's still too early for the switch imo
<GalaxyNova>
As for now firefox still supports X
<claudia>
homer: Wayfire definately has window titles.
<homer>
GalaxyNova; from dylans github post: "Yeah. This has always been the plan (for some arbitrary time in the future). Once the LTS releases of distributions swap to Wayland, Firefox will also start dropping Xorg. It's an inevitability in other words."
<GalaxyNova>
Ubuntu LTS still has xorg IIRC
<homer>
the current Ubuntu LTS 20.04.2 sure, but what about the next LTS? as much as I don't like it there is a big effor to kill xorg. :/
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<GalaxyNova>
I just got confy with my DWM build :(
* GalaxyNova
cries
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<homer>
claudia; I searched for a picture of Sway's window titles & they look nice. I don't see any buttons for closing/minimize/maximize but I can make do with the alt+f4, etc.
<GalaxyNova>
homer: Sway/i3 doesn't support window decorations
<kqz[m]>
sway has window decorations
<GalaxyNova>
really?
<GalaxyNova>
you mean close/minimize buttons?
<homer>
At this point I'm not looking for the ability to radically theme or skin a Wayland compositor I just want a mouse draggable titlebar that has the window name & buttons too but I can live without those.
<Guest64>
Hi all. I plan to buy an AMD gpu soon because of the good support in Linux. What can I buy as an alternative to gtx 1660 super (even if it's a loss of performance)?
<homer>
Guest64; What's your budget?
<GalaxyNova>
The problem for me is the lack of popular wayland compositors except sway
<kqz[m]>
GalaxyNova: oh not sure about buttons, typically those are expected to be part of the client csds, I don't think sway has ssd support
<kqz[m]>
but title and borders are configurable and supported
<Guest64>
homer: 530$ - 600$ ~
<rio6>
is wayland compositor using x wm a thing
<GalaxyNova>
Say goodbye to fvwm, dwm, bspwm, window maker, sowm...
<rio6>
awesinewm
* rio6
cries
<rio6>
*awesome
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<GalaxyNova>
which is why I'd rather stick to X
<GalaxyNova>
at least until there are more compositors available
<homer>
Guest64; searching the net tells me Radeon RX 5600 XT is of similar performance to the gtx 1660 but it's 150USD past your budget. The RX 5500 is a little more affordable but offers less peformance than base gtx 1660. Have you thought about looking for a opened/used on ebay?
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<GalaxyNova>
expecting someone to make a "kiss-xorg" repository
<Guest64>
homer: Thanks for the advice. No, I would like not to be used
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<homer>
RX 580 & RX 590 offer near same or better performace but go for 760USD. I'm using a RX 550 which doesn't come close to the GTX 1660 even it means running games at lower detail not much a problem for me now days.
<claudia>
The nice thing for sway, despite its the most far and active developed wlroots compositor, it can be bend to be a tiling wm, a floating wm..
<GalaxyNova>
it's also as bloated as i3wm
<claudia>
I think the term bloat is getting overstressed in this channel. Also its killing every differenciated statement.
<GalaxyNova>
ok, let me rephrase that
<GalaxyNova>
sway is just as resource heavy as i3wm
<homer>
GalaxyNova; Xwayland is supposed to be a complete X11 server that runs as a normal client on Wayland. Now I haven't tried it but what about running a WM in xwayland & using VNC or something else to passthrough wayland apps in a simulated X enviroment. This would most likely be pretty slow but it's a last cast scenario in my eyes.
<GalaxyNova>
I want something of the likes of DWM for wayland
<GalaxyNova>
but that just doesn't exist
<claudia>
GalaxyNova: I disagree. You are comparing apples and nuts. Its only equal in features.
<Guest64>
homer: yes, it's actually better to sacrifice performance than to lose freedom...
<GalaxyNova>
There's just no way sway on wayland is lighter than dwm on xorg
<GalaxyNova>
unless I'm missing something
<kqz[m]>
why would it not be lighter? lol
<claudia>
dwl currently has problems performance wise with firefox https://github.com/djpohly/dwl/pull/87 I have tested this myself (laptop fan always on)
<homer>
GalaxyNova; have you measured the resource usage of DWM + xorg-server?
<GalaxyNova>
I have
<GalaxyNova>
in virtualbox dwm + xorg-server on debian takes ~60 mb or ram
<GalaxyNova>
haven't measured the resource usage of sway though
<GalaxyNova>
for me the resource usage of i3wm is around 100 mb
<GalaxyNova>
is wayland really that good that it can reduce 40 megabytes or ram from nowhere
<homer>
try comparing it to sway or dwl. I don't think it should be more than double & how much of X's memory usage is X bloat or the frames that are being displayed?
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<acheam>
<acheam> so kisslinux will be using sway as the default compositor
<acheam>
<acheam> in three versions: sway standard, sway with static libseat/wlroots, and sway with static libseat/
<acheam>
<acheam> due to python's decision to only support openssl
<acheam>
<acheam> also switching to openssl at the same time
<acheam>
wlroots and fewer dependencies
<acheam>
<emersion> acheam: please advise the people installing the third option to *not* report bugs upstream
<acheam>
<emersion> i don't really want to try to figure out what happens to people using a heavily patched sway
<acheam>
<acheam> I'll relay that onwards, yes that would be a major nuisance
<acheam>
<emersion> thanks :)
<acheam>
<emersion> options 1 and 2 are completely fine and supported
<acheam>
<emersion> also feel free to open a PR if you happen to get a sway patch for e.g. fcft
<acheam>
<emersion> a cairo replacement would be nice as well but doesn't exist
<acheam>
<emersion> maybe we can merge upstream a patch that toggles swaybar and swaynag
<acheam>
<emersion> that should allow removing the cairo dep if desirable
<acheam>
just in the form of a link to them not directly in here
<kqz[m]>
yeah a patch to toggle swaybar and swaynag would be nice in the future, i have never ended up using either of those
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<akira01>
guys
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<akira01>
st had a fork compatibly with wayland?
<akira01>
since kiss gonna change to wayland i need my st to work with it
<GalaxyNova>
either way I still think it's way too early
<homer>
agree'd
<kqz[m]>
you're free to stay on x11 to your hearts contents, not like anyones preventing you from having it in your own repo
<akira01>
i love so
<akira01>
but i too dumb to wrote a package
<kqz[m]>
one might question why you're on kiss then ;p but it's pretty simple, don't let it scare you
<GalaxyNova>
maintaining lots of packages by yourself is a pain
<kqz[m]>
im sure someone will throw a xorg repo up on github
<akira01>
im sure too
<GalaxyNova>
it would also be pretty trivial
<akira01>
what kind of dmenu wayland use?
<GalaxyNova>
since it would just be forking xorg from repo
<GalaxyNova>
akia01: rofi has wayland support iirc
<akira01>
god
<akira01>
wayland sucks
<GalaxyNova>
^^^
<GalaxyNova>
protocol might be simpler but the programs for it are bloated AF
<akira01>
maybe need rename
<akira01>
bloatland
<noocsharp>
sway is 1 program
<noocsharp>
dwm is 2 programs: dwm and X
<noocsharp>
the "bloat" that you see missing from dwm is just in X
<noocsharp>
akira01: also kiss doesn't force you to use wayland: you can just continue using X as you have been
<noocsharp>
it just won't be in the official repositories as it is now
<akira01>
I know
<akira01>
but i will use wayland
<akira01>
never used
<akira01>
just need some apps
<homer>
people were complaining about how xclock was uber-bloated at 470k in SunOS.
<noocsharp>
also please don't complain that wayland programs are more bloated than X: if you think that, you're just not aware of small wayland programs
<noocsharp>
you are speaking from a position of ignorance as though you know what you're talking about
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<kqz[m]>
yeah no idea where that argument came from lol
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<GalaxyNova>
midfavila: What do you think
<GalaxyNova>
will you switch to wayland
<noocsharp>
obviously he won't, he's pretty invested in X
<acheam>
but wayland is bloated because gnome uses wayland!!!!!!!
<rio6>
the word bloat is bloat
<rio6>
it contains all the meanings that peple don't wnat to look at in detail
<GalaxyNova>
ok
<GalaxyNova>
tested sway memory usage on debian virtualbox
<GalaxyNova>
119 megabytes
<noocsharp>
is this virtual memory?
<GalaxyNova>
noocsharp: It's the output of free -m
<dilyn>
free is unreliable across implementations
<dilyn>
:v
<GalaxyNova>
wait what
<dilyn>
it also includes cached but not actually used, iirc?
<GalaxyNova>
i installed DWM and it's also 112 megabytes
<GalaxyNova>
interestingly it's not as big of a difference as i expected
<dilyn>
as long as you choose `free` for all your measurements it's fine because we're just comparing
<homer>
is it because some free combine used + cache/buffers while others don't? or is there more to it.
<dilyn>
but we'd ahve to take it with a grain of salt
<dilyn>
homer: if I'm remembering correctly, yes
<GalaxyNova>
interesting...
<dilyn>
tho I might be remembering a comparison between free and *top...
<noocsharp>
try `cat /proc/$PID/status` and look at the numbers to see what the processes are actually using
<GalaxyNova>
well ofc if i did that with dwm vs sway dwm would win because the heavy lifting is done by xorg
<noocsharp>
well just add the X resource usage
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<GalaxyNova>
I have a feeling it would be about the same
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<GalaxyNova>
but yeah
<GalaxyNova>
will still be sticking with dwm for the time being
<dilyn>
fwiw, my current plan is to simply turn kiss-community/repo into kiss-community/xorg
<acheam>
cool
<dilyn>
and extend kiss-community in some arbitrary way that i've yet to decide on
<dilyn>
but a lot of these plans will depend on what dylan ends up doing, which is why i've been silent on all of this :)
<dilyn>
I don't want to commit to anything if what I think dylan is doing is "better" or in some way supplants what I suggest
<dilyn>
in other words, don't jump to any conclusions, don't do anything rash... but do whatever you want :)
<dilyn>
maintaining your own stack is fun! i've been doing it for almost a year!
<claudia02>
homer: re sway floating: there is this floating bar project which provides window titles and as it seems minimizing stuff. https://github.com/LBCrion/sfwbar
<acheam>
I have plans to modify kiss fairly significantly
<acheam>
switching to a key value style metadata file
<acheam>
with provides functionality and stuff
<acheam>
also potentially bearssl
<acheam>
and building packages in a chrooy
<dilyn>
chrooy bby
<acheam>
my most significant change so far has been changing the color of the arrows before boot/shutdown messages
<acheam>
its a revolutionary change
<GalaxyNova>
yeah
<GalaxyNova>
just annoyed that this is happening so soon
<phoebos[m]>
true. we need time to process such radical colour changes
<phoebos[m]>
/s
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<acheam>
any way to cache a gnupg1 passphrase?
<acheam>
I'm tired of the gnupg2 dependencies but having to reenter my passphrase every time is a deal breaker