<dilyn>
so if you avoid install, just mkdir -p "$1/usr/bin", cp (or mv) a.out "$1/usr/bin/nawk", ln -s nawk "$1/usr/bin/awk"
<claudia_>
'show-urls-copy=' is what I am looking for.
<sad_plan>
it worked. cheers again
<sad_plan>
dilyn: when building statically, Ive notied that alot of buildscripts in your repos, sometimes only use --disable-shared, while not using --enable-static. is it sufficient to just disable shared, or whats the reason for the difference? package breakage?
<dilyn>
it just depends on what the authors of the package's build system sets as the default options
<dilyn>
some set both --enable-{static,shared}, some set --enable-static & --disable-shared, some set --enable-shared & --disable-static
<dilyn>
so you just have to check
<dilyn>
more often than not the default is to build both though, so you just need --disable-shared
<sad_plan>
ah, I was under the impression that most of the time its built only dynamically, but oh well. probably why Ive had alot of breakage when trying to build gcc/binutils statically earlier. usually just ended up with ld not working..
<dilyn>
of course that's only for building the library itself; if you want the binary to be built statically you'll have to pass -static or --static, sometimes there's an option in the build system to build the binary statically (less common)
<dilyn>
yeah building a static gcc and binutils is... not obvious
<dilyn>
:)
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<sad_plan>
is those listed in the configure scripts help list, or do I need to open it, and find it manually?
<sad_plan>
I figured as much. spent way too much time trying to build anything after building them, and not being able to.
<dilyn>
USUALLY you can find all the build options available by passing ./configure --help (or meson configure, or... cmake has one, i forget what it is tho; -G or something?)
<sad_plan>
was peeking at wyverkiss' llvm script, and got abit sad, as it was already set to static. felt like cheating tbh :p and here I am trying to build binutils/gcc statically when theres a massive shortcut right there
<dilyn>
other times you'd have to look through it yourself to see what it checks for...
<sad_plan>
nice
<dilyn>
ah, llvm is harder to build statically than you might think
<sad_plan>
but someone else had already configured it so, so I wouldnt have to. altough Im unfamiliar with other building systems, so Id probably got stuck before Ive even began anyway :p
<dilyn>
it got 'easier' with llvm 12 because now libc++abi can just be static and built into libc++, which is great. but building any libLLVM* statically can be hard (specifically LTO, Remarks, a few others)
<dilyn>
it's mostly just trial and error to force a static object out of a build system lmao
<sad_plan>
thats nice though. always great when updates actually makes things easier for oneself, and not the other way around.
<sad_plan>
is lto/pgo even harder with static linking? I seem to recall statically linking was mentioned when I was reading about it the other day..
<sad_plan>
I dont recall, but I did a quick build of some packages in a wyverkiss chroot, with -static as CFLAGS, and I was just sitting there, wondering; where are all the errors? why is nothing failing? lol
<dilyn>
they shouldn't really be any harder, I don't know specifics on how it would impact performance
<dilyn>
if I understand LTO/PGO correctly, things should *only* get EVEN faster
<sad_plan>
even better
<dilyn>
ah, that's because nothing cares about libLLVM :P just libc++ and libc. it's pretty neat
<dilyn>
it's all very wonky. I don't trust people who make Makefiles any more.
<sad_plan>
well looks like im going in for a nice ride when I eventually go over to llvm/clang instead of binutils/gcc. instead of a bumpy ride I mean.
<dilyn>
sometimes it's just easier to make all the objects files and ar them yourself lmfao
<dilyn>
llvm is the way :V
<sad_plan>
I get that. makefiles are messy sometimes
<sad_plan>
yeah :D
<konimex>
> it's all very wonky. I don't trust people who make Makefiles any more.
<konimex>
hear hear
<sad_plan>
do you even use clang for that much stuff? I noticed clang isnt even packaged in the wyverkiss' repo.
<konimex>
clang is a part of llvm
<sad_plan>
aah
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<sad_plan>
ok so im peeking binutils help page, and is it safe to assume when a feature is listed, the oposite is default? i.e. --enalbe-lto is listed, but its disabled by default, yes?
<sad_plan>
unless its specified on the text i mean
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<dilyn>
i usually assume that when they list --enable-foo, foo is disabled by default. though some will list whether or not it's on or off by default
<dilyn>
a lot of things default to auto and do a check of some kind as well
<sad_plan>
yeah, I noticed static libs were auto, or something, for gcc I belive, or both, I dont recall at the top of my head
<sad_plan>
dilyn, do you use CFLAGs -static, or do you run without it? does it even matter really? I mean, its specified in the buildscript anyway, so wouldnt it be redundant to have it both places?
<dilyn>
so it depends on whether or not I have shared libraries on my system, and if the thing I'm building is a shared library
<dilyn>
you can specify linking against a static library (CFLAGS=-l:libfoo.a), though this results in a lot of unecessary (unused for smart linkers) flags
<dilyn>
but there isn't a one-flag-is-all-you-need rule. for instance, vim
<dilyn>
if I only specify -static in CFLAGS for vim's build, I get this when I ldd /usr/bin/vim http://ix.io/3tod
<dilyn>
if i use -static in LDFLAGS, however, I get "ldd: /usr/bin/vim: Not a valid dynamic program"
<sad_plan>
Ive notied that some builds have specific cflags exported in their buildscripts, so I figured.
<sad_plan>
so even though you specify cflags -static, it still doesnt?
<dilyn>
the real kicker is that -static is a linker flag ;)
<dilyn>
so if -static never gets passed to your linker in whatever way, the linker won't... do the thing
<sad_plan>
lemme get this straight, setting -static as cflags i.e. for vim in this case, does not make it buid static libs, so its basically useless, but if you use it as LDFLAGS instead, it works?
<dilyn>
I should have written all this down when I was embarking on this madlad of a project huh
<sad_plan>
yep
<sad_plan>
:p
<dilyn>
so -static is a linker flag that specifies the ways in which an object should be linked
<dilyn>
a static library is literally just an archive full of object files which contain symbols; a shared library is more like... a pointer, though that is the wrong (confusing) word
<dilyn>
a static library will have all the symbols a program which links to it would need in order to execute all of the things that program would expect to have access to by linking to that library
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<dilyn>
as such, -static is simply a command for the linker. so sometimes, adding -static to CFLAGS works because $CFLAGS get prepended to $LDFLAGS, or get added to the $(LD) command in a Makefile.
<dilyn>
but not everyone does that (some Makefiles you'll see things like $(LD) $CFLAGS $CXXFLAGS $LDFLAGS, others you'll just see $(LD) $LDFLAGS, or whatever)
<dilyn>
you can use something like '-Wl,' to pass a flag directly to the linker, in which case you might have been better off just using LDFLAGS (though NOT ALWAYS)
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<dilyn>
for instance, CFLAGS="$CFLAGS -Wl,-static" in our vim example also doesn't work
<sad_plan>
why not?
<dilyn>
I'm not sure; I'd have to read the Makefile to see what's going on; presumably the build system isn't calling cc for the link step, but rather ld directly
<dilyn>
if clang is called during the link step, it's plenty smart and will do all the magic for you
<dilyn>
to get even more fucky with you, -static doesn't guarantee that the outcome of your operation will be static in the case of a library. you can slam static objects into shared libraries if you like
<dilyn>
it doesn't go the other way, however, unless you compile that shared library with -fPIC
<sad_plan>
I was compiling stuff with that flag, what exacly does that do? I seem to recall it being about shared libs
<dilyn>
to get a standard library out of your building, that's when something like --disable-shared during the configure step is useful. because now if the build system supports that option, the build system will avoid making a shared object and JUST create your static archive
<dilyn>
it's for position independent code; it's a whole other thing I don't quite understand
<dilyn>
on a surface level it makes your compiled objects bigger :P
<dilyn>
it 'avoids the limits of the global offset table', which means roughly that all of your symbol locations are now relative to this table instead of being set while building
<dilyn>
the linker does a LOT of work. it's the unsung hero of our modern era
<sad_plan>
ok :p I have a feeling that statically linking is an absolute mess. Im also starting to get why mcf bypasses the makefiles altogether. so he doesnt have to mess with peoples bs makefiles :p
<dilyn>
oh almost certainly that is a part of the reason why he did it...
<dilyn>
it's only a mess because nobody knows how to write proper Makefiles :'(
<sad_plan>
for sure. ive been starting to view alot of makefiles as of late, seeing as Im trying to package stuff from time to time, and theyre an aboslute mess all of them..
<sad_plan>
should be a somewhat of a standard instead. oor that would perhaps just make people create more standards, and we be in the same situation as with some package managment software... im looking at you red hat..
<necromansy>
yeah idk about making a standard but rather reinforcing a good base template for simple products
<necromansy>
then making sane extensions :P
<necromansy>
makefiles are neat in concept but a fucking mess irl
<necromansy>
i mean im just asking out of legit curiosity
<necromansy>
ive only ever written barebones make files for simple C and groff projects
<dilyn>
gmake, like most GNU things, has gnuisms that are not shared by other *makes
* necromansy
shrugs
<dilyn>
gmake is... perhaps more powerful, especially for larger projects
<dilyn>
I don't know enough about make to really be able to tell you; I imagine it has very good build-order dependency resolution, but I don't know how much better that could be over something like bmake
<dilyn>
i just know that gmake has a larger syntax than bmake, and a lot of makefiles leverage that syntax whether out of ignorance or fanboyism i do not know :X
<dilyn>
konimex: maybe knows what gmake can do better than bmake
<necromansy>
fair fair
<noocsharp>
dilyn: are you a fucking animal?
<noocsharp>
put return types on your functions
<dilyn>
k&r baybeee
<dilyn>
ALE is not a fan :V
<dilyn>
int main() so boring tho
<dilyn>
the next question is a histogram for character frequency instead of word length and I want to be an absolute mad lad and use divide and conquer to determine which letter it is instead of like... a sane way
<sad_plan>
where did you find that course? :') it looks.. simple :p
<dilyn>
I'm just reading through K&R
<necromansy>
picking up where mid left off
<dilyn>
lmao
<sad_plan>
k&r?
<sad_plan>
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<dilyn>
for now, at least. I might find something very interesting to do before I finish and switch to a different book
<dilyn>
the c programming language by kernighan and ritchie
<sad_plan>
aaah
<dilyn>
it's been in my backpack or on my desk for about two years, and i'm finally cracking it open
<sad_plan>
about time :p
<dilyn>
xD
<noocsharp>
i was gonna say, the only way you can justify using it to use c is if you own a physiscal copy
<noocsharp>
to learn c*
<dilyn>
c#
<noocsharp>
c--
<sad_plan>
D!
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<riteo>
hiiiii!
<necromansy>
heyhey
<sad_plan>
hey
<dilyn>
o/
<riteo>
does anybody know if there's a POSIX solution to disable pipe buffering?
<riteo>
I'm trying to make curl's output nicer by passing it through some filter, but even with just tee piped right after it the output comes out in chunks
<riteo>
dilyn forgot to mention that he does that obliterating time itself
<dilyn>
truly
<dilyn>
the world was created on a thursday, and is destroyed every wednesday
<acheam>
dilyn: do you also shred your bills?
<dilyn>
ofc
<testuser[m]>
I delete all of my emails too
<dilyn>
the past is a hindrance to all future progress
<riteo>
god I feel so anxious
<noocsharp>
dilyn: i don't think that argument would hold up in court
<dilyn>
no mortal laws can contain me
<riteo>
that's because court doesn't foster the power of simplicity as dilyn does
<riteo>
exactly
<dilyn>
I am a fractal of the universe
<riteo>
dilyn is a rationalization of the power of the universe in a form that our puny human brains can comprehend
<noocsharp>
dilyn: irc xor acid
<dilyn>
i am a way for the cosmos to know itself
<riteo>
aaaaaaaaaa I'm gonna make the repo public
<riteo>
why is it so hard
<testuser[m]>
i see you stole mid's joke about shithub statuses
<dilyn>
you are the only hindrance to yourself
<dilyn>
man is condemned to be free
<riteo>
testuser[m]: not quite, I actually started it if we're talking about the same one
<riteo>
mid surely added something to it though
<riteo>
the scariest thing is that I have no memory if I left anything that shouldn't be published into the repo
<riteo>
it doesn't look like that, expecially since I wrote the script and the commit messages in english
<riteo>
in case you find my nudes or something like that tell me
<riteo>
ok here it goes
<riteo>
it's live now
<testuser[m]>
Nice
<riteo>
btw, would you mind if while it downloaded the game assets the output would be... chunky?
<riteo>
like, buffered?
<riteo>
or would you prefer a less user-friendly but interactive output?
<noocsharp>
riteo: link?
<riteo>
you see, I'm making an optimization which makes the assets downloading way faster at the cost of a trickier output to manage, and in order to prettify it while parsing the assets names from the hashes the output gets buffered
<schillingklaus>
a dilyn is a dylan designed by a test user
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<schillingklaus>
the famous mobinmob who wrote many comments for sysdfree... i remember the disputev with cynwulf
<testuser[m]>
Wat
<travankor>
is schillingklaus midfavila in disguise?
<schillingklaus>
no, I have nothing in common with midfavila
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<claudia>
yes, this distro is developed, maintained and used, all by one person.
<testuser[m]>
?
<schillingklaus>
and this person is?
<mrlix>
I'm pretty sure there's at least 5 kiss linux users
<schillingklaus>
as opposed to netbsd, where the sets of users and of developers is almost disjoint
<travankor>
that's sort of true for all bsd's
<travankor>
especially freebsd
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<mrlix>
and yet freebsd has less bugs and poorly made libraries
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<claudia>
Hey, I use 'kiss a' to swap all alternatives to toybox, but get the following error: ERROR File '/usr/bin/[' exists on filesystem but isn't owned
<necromansy>
omg they do this to other people too?
<necromansy>
for sure a troll then
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<testuser[m]>
how much time have they got lol they're writing pages worth of comments
<cot>
>I have never made a pull request in my life. I'm not an engineer. I've never used pfetch nor
<cot>
do I intend to use it. I'm not even sure what pfetch does. I simply contributed some
<cot>
editorial changes after glancing at Pfetch: Everyone's Favourite System Info Tool.
<dilyn>
"What about an empty black screen with a blinking cursors screams I am a point and grunt interface suitable for gorillas to you?" dude gets fucking bodied in a github comment
<necromansy>
im crying ahah
<testuser[m]>
> You have been blocked. Dont let the door hit your fat ass on the way out.
<testuser[m]>
lol
<cot>
hah
<cot>
LOL @ them telling a commenter that one of the sentences in their messages is a run-on sentence
<cot>
13yo grammar police on steroids
<necromansy>
either a troll or a very self-absorbed prick
<necromansy>
either way
<necromansy>
some late night hilarity
<dilyn>
this dude has to be like, 65 years old
<cot>
nah, 12-13
<cot>
I can't imagine an adult acting like that.
<necromansy>
oh man
<necromansy>
you sweet summer child
<cot>
lol
<testuser[m]>
seen ddevault ?
<cot>
ddevault's behaviour is, um, more adult-y, for lack of a better term.
<schillingklaus>
i am 55 and can act worse
<cot>
This guy reminds me too much of some young adolescents I've met in the past.
<necromansy>
well i now no longer feel like an old fart
<necromansy>
thank you schillingklaus
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<dilyn>
finally, i am a young one
<necromansy>
^
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<raph_ael>
youth is a question of mind
<dilyn>
my mind old as fuq dude
<necromansy>
big mood
<dilyn>
some times I think about learning something new and I'll remember that because I'm not 9 anymore my brain has become super inelastic and it will only be orders of magnitude harder for me to learn and so i resign myself to cursing my age
<dilyn>
life is ruff
<necromansy>
i more so think about how taking the time to overcome that new learning difficulty eats into my other things
<necromansy>
:<
<dilyn>
'do one thing and do it well', because you're old as fuck and won't be able to do more than one thing in the 24 hours you've got
<necromansy>
precisely
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<noocsharp>
i installed the latest kiss today and it appears KISS_SU has to be set now
<dilyn>
indeed
<dilyn>
dylan droped the KISS_SU:- line
<riteo>
it was worth it though
<msk[m]>
dilyn, I force-removed libressl you said, but now I'm getting errors building qt5-webengine, which I think is related (http://0x0.st/-VQG.txt)
<cem>
And people start throwing crap at me when I say I like gcc better
<cem>
I mean they are both monstrous, but gcc is slightly less monstrous
<acheam>
i dont like llvm honestly
<dilyn>
this is roughly a list of the python scripts that are probably involved in building my llvm pkg http://ix.io/3trN
<acheam>
like, me avoiding gnu is more just for fun
<acheam>
thats a lot
<dilyn>
you can maybe cut out many of */utils/* files
<cem>
gcc supports like a bajillion languages, yet C is still a bigger portion of the compiler
<dilyn>
'many' would be like, less than half i think
<dilyn>
cem: but have you considered: GNU
<cem>
I did
<cem>
I'm just not into namespace circlejerk
<dilyn>
:'(
<cem>
I'll switch to cproc, I promise
<cem>
one day
<acheam>
i only have 5 c++ packages
<acheam>
which makes it even more annoying to keep around llvm for
<noocsharp>
the problem with cproc is that many c programs aren't compliant with the spec
<dilyn>
new goal
<cem>
yeah, that's annoying
<cem>
but musl had similar issues when it first came about
<cem>
now webkit natively supports musl!
<noocsharp>
who woulda thunk it
<noocsharp>
also cproc can't build shared libraries afaik
<acheam>
thats a shame
<cem>
I see that as an absolute win
<noocsharp>
i guess it's the linkers job actually...
<micro_O>
cem acheam I would be really surprised if a good chunk of all the languages were actually in test code
<acheam>
yeah but lfortran and swift and stuff aren't mainline llvm right?
<acheam>
so why should they be there
<acheam>
screw downstream, amirite?
<micro_O>
for projects this big (llvm, firefox, gcc, etc), I think it takes a bit of time to familiarize yourself with the codebase as simple 'find/grep/cloc' doesn't really paint the whole picture, or at least misrepresents it.
<micro_O>
for instance, oil-shell has i think 3 different 'lines of code' counts, because it doesn't make sense to count just whats checked into git for that project
<cem>
Yeah, I mostly agree with that
<dilyn>
i feel like when you're dealing with a codebase that large, you're better off doing things like profiling the code more than just doing a surface-level gaze at what makes it up
<dilyn>
plus you're like... NEVER working with large chunks of that code
<cem>
It's mostly divided in subprojects
<cem>
Similar to the kernel
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<acheam>
openbsd 6.7 introduced support for my wifi card
<acheam>
see ya Linux!
<sad_plan>
hello kiss-bsd much? :p
<acheam>
maybe
<acheam>
id like to learn the openbsd way first
<sad_plan>
that would be an idea, yeah :p
<acheam>
burning an iso right now
<sad_plan>
cool. ive been wanting to try out a bsd myself, but im a bit busy messing with kiss :p
<sad_plan>
did you even try sdhcp? the simple dhcp client. listed at the suckless site.
<sad_plan>
oasis linux also uses it apearantly
<acheam>
its been on my todo list
<acheam>
noocsharp has used it, if you have any questions
<sad_plan>
I am a bit curious about how its used. I mean, it doesnt run as a service, like dhcpcd does.
<sad_plan>
havent delwed too deep tbh. just recently packaged it into one of my repos
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<sad_plan>
oh, while I remember. iirc you seem to enjoy suckless' software, correct? perhaps check out svc. its a service manager. seeing as you also talked about switching out busybox earlier aswell, youd need service manager, unless your sticking with runit's
<acheam>
im sticking with busybox for now
<acheam>
otherwise, next in line might be s6
<sad_plan>
ah ok
<sad_plan>
why exacly s6?
<acheam>
no real reason
<acheam>
lol
<acheam>
i haven't looked into it that much
<sad_plan>
artix has a small wiki page on it anyway, for some minor info anyway.
<soliwilos>
s6 is nice.
<akira01>
Anyone knows a good music streaming for terminal?
<acheam>
mpd
<acheam>
and mpv
<dilyn>
can you imagine my fucking surprise when I discovered that K&R is outdated?
<dilyn>
chapter 1 section 9, 'make a function named getline()'