<riteo>
ok I think I got a way of avoiding a lot of dependencies for nvidia's package
<riteo>
although it might depend on a custom fork of gcompat
<dilyn>
before I go to bed, skimming logs:
<dilyn>
the skinny on things like pkgconf (and linux-headers) is that they should be specified if they're required. If you don't need them, don't specify them.
<testuser[m]1>
riteo wdym avoid dependencies here ?
<dilyn>
if you find that a package requires linux-headers, pkgconf, etc. to build, make an issue/ping the maintainer/etc etc. dylan had an effort (as pointed out earlier) to make these *implicit* deps explicit
<dilyn>
that pursuit continues today (there are several packages in community which require linux-headers but don't specify it, for instance)
<dilyn>
pkgconf is distinct from the likes of make/gcc/musl/binutils because one is a toolchain and the other is a (lazy?) way for programmers to identify that lib requirements are satisfied at configure time (and specify all the right libs at build time)
<dilyn>
as such, make et al (along with git, curl) are *assumed*, because they are... well, KISS
<dilyn>
linux-headers is weird because it's a fundamental feature of Linux, but isn't required at runtime for anything. but it roughly slots in with pkgconf because all it does is provide headers, not actual tools
<riteo>
testuser: At first I planned to make people run the installer manually or through part of the package installation process, but it requires a lot of stuff which was already there on adélie, my testing platform (for instance their ldconfig wrapper script which I don't know how to properly credit as it has no licence stated anywhere if not on the package), but I think that I'll install it on a debian
<riteo>
chroot with fswatch and copy the respective files there
<dilyn>
if I missed anything in that clarification, ping me :)
<riteo>
I'm reading just now
<testuser[m]1>
You mean the nvidia driver installer ?
<riteo>
dilyn: mh, I think that we should at least make a list of all the implicit packages, because it stays quite vague, expecially at slightly more complex ones
<riteo>
yes testuser[m]1
<dilyn>
wdym?
<dilyn>
I feel like such a thing is written somewhere
<dilyn>
though it might just be something dylan said in IRC long, long ago
<riteo>
probably, since the style guide has similar vague affirmations
<riteo>
by the sound of it they're probably like 5, but having a list of packages that are implicit or not to point at would really avoid useless conversations on what's implicit and not
<dilyn>
most things in core can be assumed. I'll check real quick
<dilyn>
you can assume: binutils, curl, gcc, git, make, musl. you should specify: bzip2, gzip, xz, zlib - even though they are basically mandatory in most situations.
<dilyn>
you need not specify init or grub; those are just 'defaults' provided for a *core* system
<dilyn>
bison/flex/m4/libressl should always be specified
<dilyn>
essentially, anything required by `kiss` or to properly configure && build a package (that is to say, `kiss` assumes git, busybox (utils), curl, and a toolchain) can be assumed
<dilyn>
this could probably be disambiguated, somewhere :)
<riteo>
yeah I agree
<dilyn>
probably in Package System [3.0], would be the best way I think...
<riteo>
wait, wasn't the rule to prefer $CC?
<riteo>
oh yeah we're talking about deps right
<dilyn>
yeah we prefer CC which is why we only assume a toolchain
<dilyn>
:)
<riteo>
is it against the distro scope to make it easier for flavors too?
<dilyn>
depends files should never simply be copy-pasted from /var/db/kiss/installed/foo/depends, because it will include things like `gcc` (when it probably doesn't), and miss every make dep. so identifying deps is probably the most involved part of making a package
<dilyn>
I wouldn't call it out of scope, just... uneccessary, I think?
<dilyn>
I mean, it's a source based distro. Any sufficiently competent toolchain would work. We should assume if someone only has tcc and some obscure ar, they know their limits lmao
<dilyn>
or what I think I misunderstood partially
<riteo>
Well, dylan implied that if it wasn't that hard to do that the distro should "account" for other stuff like arch ports
<riteo>
at least IIRC
<dilyn>
hm, you'd have to job my memory on that
<riteo>
wait, lemme see if I find something on kiss' blog
<riteo>
I think I read it there
<riteo>
I can't find it, at least quickly
<riteo>
that's pretty annoying
<riteo>
aaaaaaah I read it somewhere I'm sure
<dilyn>
a big issue is how frequently information came and went from the (now 3) domains KISS has lived on
<dilyn>
what with IRC, websites, and GitHub, a lot of things have been said.
<dilyn>
It's like building a Bible with how disparate and difficult to find all of these accounts are :v
<riteo>
iirc it was like on an announcement page, or was there a "community" one?
<testuser[m]1>
news ?
<riteo>
it was something along the lines of "although these ports aren't supported, KISS should help them when possible" but I can't find any proof
<riteo>
testuser[m]1: I'll look there
<dilyn>
ah, yes that
<dilyn>
that was specifically related to aarch64 etc
<dilyn>
so... yes
<dilyn>
he said that we shouldn't make it hard to do. which I agree with
<riteo>
welp I can't find it, but I guess two people remembering something is better than one
<dilyn>
so if i'm remembering right (jesus it's been a long day), this circles back to your earlier point; yeah we don't specify toolchain bits because it just makes ports more tedious, isn't necessary, and anyone who would be bothered by it missing should know enough to realize it :v
<dilyn>
yeah that section was entirely removed, a little while ago. by me, I believe -- relating to being out of date and not being properly maintained
<dilyn>
the concept of that section was migrated to the 'kiss universe' section of the install guide and $/awesome-kiss
<dilyn>
and with all that wisdom, I leave you for the evening! tomorrow I will be... less busy with life
<riteo>
bye!
Uks2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
Uks2 has joined #kisslinux
soliwilos has joined #kisslinux
<riteo>
why's the whole web giving me a 503 error with "guru meditation:" written on it?
<riteo>
is cloudfare down?
<riteo>
looks like it
<riteo>
fyi it looks like they're doing some maintenance, so expect the whole web to crumble for a while ig
root___ has joined #kisslinux
<root___>
Github user content is down, do we have any mirrors for repo-bin?
<testuser[m]1>
only the git repo is mirrored, not release
<testuser[m]1>
which bin do you need ?
<root___>
firefox 88.0.1
<testuser[m]1>
i have 89 locally
<root___>
It will work until github goes back up
<root___>
could you upload it to some file sharing site?
<testuser[m]1>
wait
<root___>
Actually you don't have to
<root___>
I found the tarball in my backups
<testuser[m]1>
lol
<root___>
Sorry to bother you
<testuser[m]1>
itsfine
<schillingklaus>
bothering dilyn would have been worse
<testuser[m]1>
is crimeflare down or shithub ?
<root___>
idk but i have heard that it is crimeflare
<riteo>
I guess cloadfare
<riteo>
cloudfare
<root___>
github itself works fine
<riteo>
they're doing some maintenance
<root___>
Just content downloads don't
<testuser[m]1>
centralization moment
<riteo>
basically half the web's now down
<schillingklaus>
why is half the web down?
<testuser[m]1>
cuz they all depend on crimeflare[1;7C
<riteo>
cloudfare's is doing some planned maintenance
<riteo>
cloudfare is is doing
<schillingklaus>
I boycott all cloudflare based sites
<riteo>
obviously the web had to crumble right as I need a lot of q&a sites
<root___>
Also in the moment i was rolling back my firefox upgrade
<testuser[m]1>
oh fastly is dead too
<root___>
Speaking of firefox
<riteo>
cross-domain page dependencies were a mistake
<testuser[m]1>
web was a mistake
<root___>
Has anyone else had really bad performance problems with 89.0
<schillingklaus>
firefox went down the sewer lid already 5 years ago or so, when moving to quantum
<testuser[m]1>
perf has always been garbage
<riteo>
root___: haven't updated yet
<testuser[m]1>
what do u mean specifically ?
<root___>
Everything is 10x slower
<root___>
Even just starting the browser
<testuser[m]1>
compared to chromium it feels so sluggish, just switched to ff few days back to give it another shot
<testuser[m]1>
hmm i dont think it got any slower than before
<testuser[m]1>
in my usage
<root___>
I saw some people on reddit say that it is a weird bug for people using xorg
<testuser[m]1>
oh, im on ayyland
<root___>
Apparently it is actually faster on all other platforms
<root___>
But idk
<schillingklaus>
while xorg is full of unintentional bugs, wayland is deliberately useless
<root___>
Just installed ff 88 back and i can say that performance problems are gone
<root___>
Youtube loads in seconds instead of minutes
<root___>
I really hope they fix this
<testuser[m]1>
root___ are you using webrender ? maybe try disabling it
<root___>
I tried, it made no difference
<testuser[m]1>
turned off proton too ?
<root___>
yes
<testuser[m]1>
oof
<root___>
I mean i did get a bit of performance back, i think, i actually did get to see yt loading
<root___>
But still it is a giant downgrade compared to 88
<testuser[m]1>
may i suggest links
<testuser[m]1>
2
<root___>
Really unusable, especially on low end hardware
<root___>
I have tried using links as my main browser and it was a fine browser
<root___>
Web sites were the problem
<root___>
web app built on a framework which is built on a framework which is made with an awful interpreted language which was jammed into a rendering engine for displaying formated text documents
<root___>
...
<riteo>
swallow the geminipill
<root___>
I have heard of it, but i will have to look into it some more
root___ has quit [Quit: leaving]
illiliti has joined #kisslinux
carbsbot has joined #kisslinux
cem has joined #kisslinux
an3223 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
an3223 has joined #kisslinux
carbsbot has quit [Quit: carbsbot]
midfavila-laptop has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
morphling has joined #kisslinux
<morphling>
hello folks
<morphling>
anyone had success using dm.mod-create for full disk encryption?
<illiliti>
the partition must be formatted using DM-plain type
<illiliti>
dm.mod-create can't be used with LUKS1/LUKS2
<illiliti>
but i wouldn't recommend using dm.mod-create and DM-plain format
<illiliti>
you can achieve plausible deniability by using LUKS1/LUKS2 + detached header
rgybmc[m] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
testuser[m]1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
jstnas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
E5ten[m] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
psydroid has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer]
konimex has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
testuser[m] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
testuser[m] has joined #kisslinux
rio6 has joined #kisslinux
<morphling>
illiliti: how do you do that?
konimex has joined #kisslinux
<morphling>
I was considering using grub to unlock the encrypted partition
rgybmc[m] has joined #kisslinux
psydroid has joined #kisslinux
E5ten[m] has joined #kisslinux
<morphling>
but if I want to have multiple partitions locked instead of just root (swap maybe?), I'd have to use lvm2
jstnas has joined #kisslinux
testuser[m]1 has joined #kisslinux
psydroid has joined #kisslinux
psydroid has quit [Changing host]
<illiliti>
i don't use grub nor dm.mod-create. i use tinyramfs+luks+detached header
<illiliti>
dm.mod-create forces you to expose your master key on kernel command line
<illiliti>
so basically any app can access it via /proc/cmdline
<morphling>
yeah well, I didn't really like that
<morphling>
just looked up tinyramfs
<morphling>
looks neat
<morphling>
you wrote it too :)
<morphling>
lmao
<illiliti>
another way to store master key is directory embedding it into kernel
<illiliti>
but this is insecure too
<illiliti>
because anyone who have read access to kernel image can fetch your key
<schillingklaus>
tinyramfs does noty require an udev imprle
<morphling>
how does detached header work? do you just extract the LUKS header into a usb drive and wipe it from the main drive?
<illiliti>
yep
<illiliti>
tinyramfs doesn't even require device manager to operate. the only things you need are switch_root, mount, cpio and POSIX coreutils
<illiliti>
device manager required to populate /dev/disk/* though
<illiliti>
in-kernel CONFIG_UEVENT_HELPER can be used to do that if you don't have device manager
midfavila-laptop has joined #kisslinux
<illiliti>
i would recommend using dm.mod-create for embedded devices because it simpler and consuming less memory. emdedded devices are usually highly isolated from external access, so exposing master key to /proc/cmdline is not big problem
<illiliti>
dilyn: libudev-zero 0.5.0 is out. repology still shows 0.4.8 as latest ...
<testuser[m]1>
Repology is dead
<testuser[m]1>
s/is/Seems to be
<testuser[m]1>
For kiss repos atleast
<illiliti>
oh ok
<illiliti>
thanks
<illiliti>
didn't know
rio6 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
rio6 has joined #kisslinux
rio6 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3]
rio6 has joined #kisslinux
<dilyn>
are we... certain, it's wrong?
<dilyn>
because it... doesn't look wrong...
<testuser[m]1>
Oh it got fixed now
<dilyn>
lmao
<dilyn>
schrodinger's repology
<acheam>
dilyn: bruh go to sleep
<dilyn>
I did!
<dilyn>
just woke up
<dilyn>
it's noon lad
<dilyn>
nevermind the fact that i stayed up until 4am :v
<acheam>
4am Is too early for kiss
<midfavila>
>only 4am
<riteo>
lmao
<midfavila>
imagine not staying up until six AM troubleshooting zstd bullshit
<dilyn>
i've gotten better at troubleshooting I guess
<midfavila>
rude
<riteo>
imagine not staying up until 6 AM to talk about obscure hardware with mid
<midfavila>
hmm. that reminds me, I need to get around to adding pages to my site about some of my hardware...
<riteo>
Will you put pictures too?
<midfavila>
yeah
<riteo>
I'd love that
<midfavila>
if and when I get around to it, I intend to add reviews, disassembly and maintenance instructions, manuals, etc
<midfavila>
as much for other people's benefit as mine, honestly
<riteo>
Oh it'd be great for when I get my panasonic cf-c2
<riteo>
if you want to add guides for that
<midfavila>
i've actually yet to disassemble my laptop
<midfavila>
but I want to upgrade its RAM soon
<riteo>
nice
<midfavila>
which involves an almost complete disassembly...
<midfavila>
le sigh
<acheam>
Sounds like a shitty laptop
<acheam>
can't believe your reccomend it
<midfavila>
it's a subnotebook. of course it's shitty, acheam
<midfavila>
but among subnotebooks it's quite excellent.
<acheam>
jut a supernotebook
<acheam>
s/jut/get/g
<midfavila>
if I could afford parts for my getac I'd be using that
<midfavila>
gotta get my gains on
<midfavila>
thing weighs like fifteen pounds fully kitted
<dilyn>
sell one of your CPUs
<riteo>
acheam: why's that? Do you have any other recommendation?
<dilyn>
disregard cores, acquire currency
<midfavila>
currency will be acquired in due time
<riteo>
I actually plan to get a not too powerful, extremely disassembable and maintenable laptop, and the cf-c2 looks really nice for what I need
dante_boi has joined #kisslinux
morphling has quit [Quit: :q!]
mcpcpc has quit [*.net *.split]
ziofork has quit [*.net *.split]
omanom has quit [*.net *.split]
paradigm has quit [*.net *.split]
buffet has quit [*.net *.split]
mcpcpc has joined #kisslinux
<nerditup>
| Just as I thought. No actual simplicity, just some neckbeards complaining about software evolving in the last 20 years.
<nerditup>
:D
ziofork has joined #kisslinux
<nerditup>
just saw this on the testimonials section of the site
<midfavila-laptop>
it's been especially bad in my city the past week
schillingklaus has joined #kisslinux
<acheam>
its 93f right now
<acheam>
east coast heat wave?
<kiedtl>
100+ here
<rio6>
14C :3
<kiedtl>
,wa 14 * 2 + 30
smartin has quit [Quit: smartin]
mahmutov has joined #kisslinux
<acheam>
lol
<acheam>
thats on you that its not here
<kiedtl>
The bot isn't even here, sheesh
<kiedtl>
I'm getting too carried away with working on my roguelike
<schillingklaus>
how does this roglike differ from angband, moria, or nethack?
<kiedtl>
How could you not include Stone Soup in that list :P
<kiedtl>
schillingklaus: well, for one thing everything is stealth oriented
<kiedtl>
just about every mob could whop you by themself, it's up to use to use a combination of harmful potions, superior ranged weapons (which none of the other mobs possess) and your superior vision and hearing to escape each time there's an encounter
<midfavila-laptop>
acheam this isn't a heat wave
<midfavila-laptop>
just part of the usual summer weather
<kiedtl>
Also, there are a large amount of mobs that are either (a) hostile to both you and the dungeon's main monsters or (b) friendly to you and hostile to the others
<midfavila-laptop>
it regularly gets up to around 40C/100F
<kiedtl>
which you can manipulate to distract mobs that are trying to chase you
<kiedtl>
smh what are those slackers doing on the irc3 comittee, I want my reply-to
<schillingklaus>
sounds difficult
<kiedtl>
Heh, yeah
<midfavila-laptop>
is ircv3 supposed to be backward compatible with the current protocol?
<kiedtl>
schillingklaus: There are a bunch of other novel things about it (for instance, the majority of monsters don't care a fig about you and will just go about doing their own job), I'm working on a little essay detailing them. I'll probably link it here once I'm through :)
<kiedtl>
midfavila-laptop: yup
<midfavila-laptop>
nice.
<midfavila-laptop>
fuck
<midfavila-laptop>
the car I'm in ran out of gas. :|
schillingklaus has quit [Quit: schillingklaus]
<omanom>
oof no more ac eh
<midfavila-laptop>
correct
<midfavila-laptop>
now I must suffer in the heat
<midfavila-laptop>
like a plebian
<midfavila-laptop>
>:c
<omanom>
just point your laptop's exhaust at you for a fan!
<kiedtl>
but do 'kiss b cmake' first
carbsbot has joined #kisslinux
<midfavila-laptop>
my laptop doesn't have a fan
<midfavila-laptop>
;w;
<acheam>
uh what
<acheam>
are you in a ridrshare?
<acheam>
were you on your laptop in it?
<midfavila-laptop>
nah, I'm out with a friend
<midfavila-laptop>
but I am on my laptop, yes
<midfavila-laptop>
why?
soliwilos has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<dilyn>
my computer has almost zero fans :X
<dilyn>
just the one on the CPU cooler and the GPU shroud
<dilyn>
makes my room a constant 37C lmfao
<midfavila-laptop>
my cosmos has like
<midfavila-laptop>
five
<midfavila-laptop>
soon to increase, I'm sure
<midfavila-laptop>
has better acoustics than my last case though
<midfavila-laptop>
and I don't have to risk slicing my hands open just to get at the internals
<dilyn>
sometimes I can hear my CPU fan and I cry a little bit