ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: KISS Linux | https://k1sslinux.org | /msg zr for kisslinux/* cloaks | logs: https://k1sslinux.org/irc#2.0 | thing of the day: https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=gkLvpt9Z3fA
<nerditup> acheam delivers a browser in a few short hours lol
<nerditup> Just reading through the README now
<acheam> lol its just a modified version of someone elses webkit frontent
<acheam> if you include webkit source code, i've written like 0.001% of the browser
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<midfavila-laptop> so is it chorizo after the things from metroid, or chorizo as in the sausage
<acheam> the sausage
<acheam> but you should ask riteo, it was his idea
<midfavila-laptop> chorizo is delicious
<midfavila-laptop> i used to work at this fast food joint that sold it. used to take home whatever we didn't sell and make lunch for myself with it
<midfavila-laptop> only perk of working at that place.
<acheam> yum
<midfavila-laptop> yeah.
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<noocsharp> does anyone know of a c compiler written in assembly?
<acheam> x86 assembly?
<acheam> what are you trying to do?
<noocsharp> to truly bootstrap c, you need an assembler written in machine code, and a compiler and linker written in assembly
<noocsharp> i was just wondering if that existed
<noocsharp> also i wonder how many times c has actually been boostrapped like that...
<midfavila-laptop> considering trusting trust's impact,
<midfavila-laptop> probably not many
<midfavila-laptop> but i'm a complete dumbass so I don't actually know
<noocsharp> it's entirely possible that it's only ever been bootstrapped once
<midfavila-laptop> i mean, fwiw,
<midfavila-laptop> if *I* was writing a compiler for a brand new language in raw machine code,
<midfavila-laptop> i'd implement a subset first
<midfavila-laptop> and then work my way up from there
<noocsharp> i mean c wasn't written in assembly
<noocsharp> it was written in bcpl
<midfavila-laptop> i was gonna say
<midfavila-laptop> either B or BCPL
<noocsharp> i wonder what the tree of language bootstrapping looks like
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<nerditup> Mostly POSIX shell scripts
<midfavila-laptop> plot twist, every language arose from the primordial soup of sh
<midfavila-laptop> even C
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<zola> When packaging software which requires that a specific user be present, should i create it during installation, or show a message to the user about having to create it?
<midfavila-laptop> you could always add a prompt
<midfavila-laptop> be like "Hey we have to create $user for the package, is that okay? [Y/n]"
<dilyn> yeah you're going to be looking for a long historical chain of compilers on that one
<zola> That looks like the best solution, thanks midfavila-laptop
<midfavila-laptop> np
<midfavila-laptop> i've thought about the best way to approach that myself
<dilyn> there isn't technically a 'best' way on KISS; most packages simply have a post-install saying 'hey create this user'
<dilyn> my packages actually do it
<midfavila-laptop> it might be the case of a package requiring a user be present to build
<dilyn> I don't think there's a specification for it
<midfavila-laptop> i've run into programs that refuse to build without a certain user being present
<midfavila-laptop> it's not common, but it does happen
<dilyn> ^ yes that requires a mess more involvement
<midfavila-laptop> s'long as the user knows what's going on, I say it's fine
<dilyn> if your package is more like opennptd you can do it like that package does
<midfavila-laptop> but fwiw my suggestion remains to ask the user
<dilyn> if you have good reason to suspect the user wants such users and groups to be implemented in a different way (i.e., a specific home directory, or maybe they want it to be able to login), you'd have to specify user intervention
<zola> It is a good point, requiring user input to build is really bad, especially if user started a build of multiple big packages and left the system unattended
* midfavila-laptop shrugs
<midfavila-laptop> obviously it's not ideal. ultimately as long as the user is informed...
<dilyn> yeah, making pkg building as interventionless as possible is good; it's part of why (i'd assume, at least) dylan made post-install's print at the end of `kiss b foo bar` in addition to after each `foo`, `bar`
<dilyn> indeed
<midfavila-laptop> https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=HVzC6WZImGY acheam sotd suggestion
<midfavila-laptop> if any of you haven't played cave story yet you should
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<acheam> midfavila-laptop: I find it really funny when people say "thanks midfavila-laptop" because then it sounds like they're thanking your laptop
<acheam> you should /nick midfavilas_laptop for the extra effect
<illiliti> lmao
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<GalaxyNova> Dylan seems to be active on github again!
<illiliti> OMG
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<illiliti> i hope he'll back to us
<illiliti> we all miss him so much
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<phoebos> he's already done like 40 contributions in a couple of hours. jeez
<phoebos> i'm happy to see him back, but the pull requests and all the stuff waiting for him would be... overwhelming
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<konimex> oh dylan's back, I wonder if he knows of the movement of this channel from freenode to libera.chat
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<necromansy> konimex: it wouldnt be hard to figure it out, the move is listed on k1sslinux.org/irc, so id hope dylan can read
<necromansy> but its dope to see him back
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<kiedtl> konimex: if not he'd find out soon, both from r/kisslinux and from the /topic on #kisslinux on freenode
<necromansy> that too yeah
<konimex> isn't #kisslinux on freenode +i though?
<phoebos> you can still see the topic
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<kiedtl> konimex: I removed the +i, so as to not further provoke the Lords of Leenode
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<midfavila-laptop> morning, everyone
<midfavila-laptop> man, I need to tinker on sbase...
<midfavila-laptop> 'mv' doesn't check permissions *before* attempting to move a file, so if you don't have appropriate perms, the file you attempted to move is nuked
<midfavila-laptop> something tells me that POSIX doesn't specify that
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<necromansy> midfavila-laptop: i wonder how sbase mv is implemented if its doing that, it *should* check if its got write permissions to the target directory *before* but uuuh
* necromansy shrugs
<ang> report it to mcf
<necromansy> yeah this seems like a thing to report
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<riteo> Hiiiii!
<riteo> Dylan's back!
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<acheam> ye
<riteo> ahh, what a day!
<necromansy> i..what an odd feature
<riteo> so, will he keep working on kiss or is everything still on dilyn hands?
<necromansy> no idea yet, he hasnt made contact with us afaik
<riteo> oh, I'm curious on how it ends up.
<riteo> I really want to know what he thinks on how the distro kept going
<acheam> we didn't make any radical changes
<nerditup> morning
<acheam> hi nerditup
<nerditup> just reading now that Dylan is back, this is huge news!
<riteo> acheam: I didn't mean that
<riteo> you know, just that the packages were updated and that the distro didn't die with his disappearance
<necromansy> that was always a stated goal tbf
<riteo> oh yeah
<riteo> that's why I'm curious
<riteo> Getting to this point is still a lot
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<kiedtl> rip k1ss.org
<acheam> OOF
<acheam> someone actually bought it for $700?
<rio6> wait soneone sniped it?
<acheam> looks like it
<testuser[m]1> wasnt it gone long ago
<testuser[m]1> still shows the same spam site
<acheam> it shows registered for me on dynadot.com
<acheam> wheras it was available for $688 earlier
<rio6> http://0x0.st/-LBX.png I can still add it to shopping cart on namecheap :shrug:
<kiedtl> o_O
<rio6> also is the price per month on namecheap or per year
<rio6> cuz that looks expensive
<acheam> year
<rio6> still expensive :P
<acheam> maybe its just being held my namecheap, and thats why you can buy it there?
<acheam> but it looks like its pointing to parklogic.com
<acheam> idk man, domains are weird
<acheam> did my patch not go through on the ML or is the archive just out of date?
<rio6> what we have an ml?
<acheam> lol
<rio6> how do I subscribe XD
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<acheam> email dev+subscribe@k1sslinux.org
<acheam> and/or community+subscribe@k1sslinux.org
<aws> hello everyone o/
<acheam> hi aws
<acheam> please don't hurt me with your monopolistic cloud service provider antics
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<aws> i noticed dylan started committing today!
<acheam> yes!
<acheam> nothing kiss related yet
<acheam> but good to see that hes coming back
<testuser[m]1> hi aws
<acheam> i wonder what OS he is running
<ang> acheam, the chorizo package is on the ml
<acheam> ang: thanks!
<testuser[m]1> his old kiss install probably
<acheam> the archives are out of date then
<acheam> I would have installed Mint or smthng /shrug
<phoebos> acheam: dilyn's probably still doing the archives manually
<testuser[m]1> no he said there's a cronjob
<testuser[m]1> `#if __has_include(<something.h>)` is portable right ?
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<dante> test
<testuser[m]1> Fail
<dante> failed, but successfully
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<dante> apparently the nickname dante is already registered but its still letting me send messages
<midfavila-laptop> :thinking:
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<noocsharp> acheam: your patch went through
<dante0012> i've been away for a few months what's the state of KISS atm?
<chaffity> Bois back
<noocsharp> alive and well
<dante0012> thank god
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<micr0> o/
<dante0012> is anyone here using wayland?
<testuser[m]1> Yes
<dante0012> is stuff starting to work on it without the need for xwayland?
<micr0> i dont think i use xwayland
<testuser[m]1> What stuff
<micr0> I'm using firefox without xwayland afaik
<jedavies> dante0012: claudia did some work on a "no xorg" wayland repo a while ago: https://github.com/sdsddsd1/mywayland
<testuser[m]1> But not without xlibs
<testuser[m]1> I have a patch for ff to drop x11 libs, chromium works fine on ayyland without extra patches
<micr0> so did himmalerin
<testuser[m]1> What other stuff do you need ?
<acheam> hey micr0!
<acheam> long time no see!
<micr0> hah yeah. my other laptop display got shorted, and now im on my linux one :)
<micr0> also doing some stuff thats just easier in linux
<micr0> hope you are doing well acheam
<dante0012> i'm on arch rn but i might switch back to kiss now that dylan is back
<micr0> already back on my old BS: day 1 and packaged nodejs-lts xD
<micr0> woah dylan is back?
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<testuser[m]1> Made a few commits today
<testuser[m]1> But not here yet
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<dante0012> his github says "back soon" so i assume he's making himself a nice cup of tea and shaking his head at the state of kiss
<micr0> happy that he is alive. also would be an interesting blog post, how kiss survived with its initial bdfl gone for a while.
<midfavila-laptop> well, we don't know if dylan's gonna return
<midfavila-laptop> unless there's been an update?
<dante0012> https://github.com/dylanaraps - his github status has been changed to "be back soon"
<testuser[m]1> He's active on gh midfavila's laptop
<midfavila-laptop> yeah, I knew that
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<acheam> midfavila's laptop:
<midfavila-laptop> >:V
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<micr0> anyone using a non-sway wayland compositor?
<micr0> river looked cool but last i checked was difficult to build
<testuser[m]1> Dilyn uses hikari i think
<dante0012> i wasn't a fan of hikari when i tried it
<dante0012> i think sway is cool
<dante0012> also checkout mcf's one velox i think its called
<omanom> i was able to get wayfire installed without XWayland
<omanom> but i don't have anything else beyond foot terminal so its not exactly usable
<cem> Did midfavila's laptop gain consciousness in order to cry about Athena?
<cem> omanom: you can use webkit on wayland
<micr0> omanom foot is so damn comfy
<omanom> hmm so does that mean lariza/chorizo would work?
<cem> Yes lariza is pure GTK, so it will work without issues
<dante0012> foot is lovely
<dante0012> chromium works natively on wayland
<dante0012> check arch wiki
<omanom> yes... but then i'd have to use chromium
<dante0012> chromiumm isn't thattt bad...
<micr0> oh, we are out of date on foot. i'll update it to 1.7.2
<testuser[m]1> omanom: you can build webkit with wayland support, i can send you the build files if you like
<omanom> i'd prefer lariza if i can get it working, that's all
<testuser[m]1> You need libwpe stuff too
<dante0012> ungoogled-chromium is nice
<cem> eh I don't like foot that much, especially with some TUI programs
<omanom> testuser[m]1 is it in your wayland repo? otherwise yeah a link would be great
<testuser[m]1> I haven't put it into my repo cuz webkit just don't wanna work on my machine
<testuser[m]1> segfault without WPE, blank page with WPE
<testuser[m]1> You'll have to wait till tomorrow :d
<testuser[m]1> They're in claudia's wayland repo too but outdated
<omanom> haha that's fine, no rush. i haven't even booted that laptop up in a couple weeks now
<cem> That's really strange
<cem> I blame glibc
<micr0> dante0012 I bumped foot from 1.6.2 to 1.7.2 and added a little summary of the breaking changes in the post-install
<micr0> lots of nice features though
<dante0012> i'm gonna probably install kiss today i've been on arch for a bit
<micr0> github.com/jedahan/kiss-wayland
<micr0> ahh k
<dante0012> github.com/jedahan/kiss-wayland - nice
<micr0> also I have no idea if the firefox in my wayland repository will build its been so long xD
<micr0> lmk if it works or not for you
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<dante0012> will let you know but i'll probably end up using chromium
<dante0012> well, ungoogled-chromium
<dante0012> micr0: what's the state of like, games on wayland
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<micr0> probably garbage? but I remember using a Steam AppImage from back in the day
<dante0012> back in the day i was playing the odd minecraft on kiss with flatpak but i assume wayland completely breaks that
<micr0> unless your idea of games are rogue-likes
<dante0012> lol
<dante0012> i'm sure i can play some sort of tetris variant in the terminal
<chaffity> Somebody packaged Love2d!
<chaffity> Argh, and OpenTTD. Bliss.
<micr0> yeah i am testing the love2d build right now
<micr0> if you have any favorite love2d games, link/lmk and i can try it out
<micr0> or maybe i check my itch.io backlog....
<midfavila-laptop> man
<midfavila-laptop> i love it when I have a valid X config and it doesn't do what it should
<midfavila-laptop> thanks X.Org
<dilyn> acheam: your patch did indeed come through, I was just asleep :v
<dilyn> I manually move the emails to a folder, and that folder is worked on by a cronjob. so it's half automated
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<dilyn> though I just updated my sieve script so now the automations should all work perfectly...
<acheam> coolio
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<midfavila-laptop> smartin Icedove-UXP or..?
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<cem> I love the occasional shitpost on the suckless mailing list
<midfavila-laptop> haha, that's a good one
<midfavila-laptop> ">Martin Tournoij - Industry Thought Leader"
<dante0012> > Suckless.org currently has a score of 100 on Google PageSpeed.
<dante0012> > This is
<dante0012> far too high.
<midfavila-laptop> we need more 80mb video loops in the background
<omanom> my fav was "Official Certified Oracle™® Cunt™® (2020)"
<dante0012> they should just rewrite the site in flash ffs
<dante0012> considering they love old technology
<midfavila-laptop> Java applets*
<midfavila-laptop> >"Some of the content is in German, which was too controversial."
<midfavila-laptop> amazing
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<dante0012> > There are many modern frameworks but you should really use React in my
<dante0012> opinion. It is amazing. I do everything with React; I became a millionaire
<dante0012> by mining Bitcoins with React, I cook my food with React (React curry with
<dante0012> chickpeas is about as amazing as [12]+3 resulting in the string "123"!),
<dante0012> and wow, the response from the women when I say I use React!! It's the
<dante0012> easiest Tinder opening line ever. My cat loves React too.
<acheam> testuser[m]1: I think you need to disable introspection in gst-plugins
<acheam> -Dintrospection=disabled
<acheam> fails to build without it for me, as the whole KISS gtk stack is built without it
* midfavila-laptop laughs in stable GTK2
<acheam> stfu
<midfavila-laptop> make me, geek
<midfavila-laptop> yer not even an op any more
<midfavila-laptop> your words hold no power over me
* acheam stuffs a sock in midfavila's laptop's serial port
<midfavila-laptop> joke's on you, my laptop has no serial port
<acheam> jokes on you, you got scammed then
<midfavila-laptop> not really
<midfavila-laptop> i can upgrade my laptop with a serial module whenever I want
<midfavila-laptop> :P
<midfavila-laptop> although there's a modem module that occupies the same slot
<midfavila-laptop> depending on whether it's a hardmodem or not I might go with that instead
<midfavila-laptop> cruise along the information superhighway at 56kbaud, baby
<midfavila-laptop> ...well, the baudrate for a 56kbps modem is significantly higher than 56kbaud, but whatever
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<cem> Can I confess to my sin of starting to write a React Native phone app
<cem> For someone's university senior project, too
<midfavila> if you want to be impaled and burned alive, yes
<cem> midfavila: maybe I do
<midfavila> hot
<midfavila> literally
<cem> True, should I groan?
<midfavila> i imagine you would be too busy cooking to do much, but whatever floats your boat
<midfavila> what's the project?
<cem> It's a todo app for the visually impaired
<cem> And I have never in my life did a phone app
<midfavila> neat. i would have thought that the blind would use a teletype or something
<midfavila> make sure to use tabs instead of spaces
<midfavila> /s
<cem> And I had to choose between learning Java and JS
<cem> I chose JS
<midfavila> if it's android, couldn't you have used kotlin or clojure?
<midfavila> those run on the JVM, right?
<cem> I'm completely unfamiliar with either of those
<cem> Are they any good?
<midfavila> idk anything about kotlin, but clojure seems really cool from what I've seen of it
<midfavila> it's a Scheme dialect
<cem> Ah yes lisp
<midfavila> lithp
<rio6> people say kotlin is better than java
<cem> I can at least have some fun
<cem> Anything is better than Java
<midfavila> it's not hard to-
<cem> Maybe except C++
<midfavila> yeah, was gonna say
<midfavila> the only thing that's worse than java is JS
<midfavila> ...but even that's debateable
<midfavila> debatable*
<cem> Yeah, I was about to say that
<omanom> speaking of confessing sins, python kiss package manager now has search functionality https://0x0.st/-Lui.png
<cem> Oh god
<midfavila> >piss
<midfavila> i love it
<cem> The terms package manager and Python only makes me think of Portage
<midfavila> more like abortage
<cem> Ten hours of dependency resolution
<midfavila> only fucking thing I want to do when using gentoo
<midfavila> but at least it's not sorcery
<midfavila> sorcery is really cool, but it's a special kind of pain
<cem> Yeah, like some packages compile faster than portage generates a dependency graph
<midfavila> n i c e
<midfavila> that's what you call good programming
<cem> That's a pro python move
<midfavila> does portage run on pypi instead of cython?
<omanom> lol it takes piss 0.14s to complete that query, whereas kiss takes such little time that `time` lists straight 0s
<midfavila> "it doesn't matter that python is slow, mid"
<omanom> probably all loading up of the interpreter
<cem> > piss
<cem> I love it
<omanom> well i mean, its still not anywhere near noticeable to a user
<GalaxyNova> you could probably get it to go faster if you byte compiled it
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<cem> My computer when I boot up is soo fucking janky that I calculate how much I'll wait before running a command
<cem> For like the first ten minutes
<midfavila> ngl KISS can end up pretty janky after a while
<midfavila> :P
<midfavila> but the crust is part of the charm
<omanom> GalaxyNova is that just using py_compile
<GalaxyNova> yes
<cem> I mean, my Carbs system is still real fucking fast compared to the times when I used Arch or Void
<cem> This dumb fucking computer is the actual reason I started this thing in the first place
<midfavila> the virgin arch minimalist versus the chad kiss essentialist
<cem> I hate HP with a burning passion and everyday I never hope to see this computer ever again
<dilyn> lol
<dilyn> burn the OEM down
<zr> Open the window
<cem> It's getting worse, and I'm not even repairing it because I want to get rid of it as soon as possible
<zr> and throw it out
<midfavila> cem dude
<midfavila> you're gettin' a dell
<dilyn> build your own PC!
<dilyn> laptops are overrated
<midfavila> i mean, this, yes
<midfavila> but also stop buying consumer-grade garbage
<cem> I'm probably getting a Dell or Lenovo
<zr> cem's hell will be one giant HP mainframe running NewWave
<midfavila> lmao
<dilyn> generating more e-waste is the only way to flex on people
<cem> zr: lmaoo
<midfavila> forced to run hpux for all eternity
<cem> My previous laptop was HP too :^)
<dilyn> :<
<dilyn> when will you learn!
<midfavila> dilyn but consider the following
<cem> That one was actually good though
<midfavila> you can actually upgrade old thiccpads
<midfavila> just get an IBM model smh
<cem> If my mom didn't start using that, I would actually switch back to it and run ElementaryOS
<dilyn> aesthetic >>>> upgradeability
<dilyn> gimme a carbon x1 pls
<midfavila> go back to your macbook
<midfavila> >:C
<rio6> just connect a keyboard to a phone
<midfavila> maximum dystopia
<dilyn> hng
<cem> I know I say this quite a lot, but I would still be a Linux noobie if it weren't for this dumb computer
<cem> I would still be a literature student
<dilyn> and now look at you
<cem> I hate my life
<midfavila> able to scream about CFLAGS with the rest of us
<cem> That's true
<dilyn> one of us, one of us...
<midfavila> you might want to kill yourself every day from buildtime related stress,
<midfavila> but at least you can flex on arch users
<cem> CFLAGS are a circlejerk
<midfavila> meh, yes and no
<cem> -march=native -mtune generic -pipe -Os
<cem> I'm not a 4head
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<midfavila> i normally use -pipe -w -O2 -fstack-protector -march=haswell
<midfavila> with a few additional optimizations depending on machine
<cem> I have never changed CFLAGS since the day I first installed Gentoo
<midfavila> if there's a gentoo, was there a genone?
<dilyn> :c
<cem> genzee jokes
<dilyn> I wish agressive CFLAGS were... more worthwhile
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<dilyn> I feel like too much effort has gone into creating them, only for them to just be... basically worthless?
<cem> Yeah, that's the thing. It's not worth the time micro managing cflags
<dilyn> managing thin LTO is annoying as it is. I couldn't imagine adding more than that
<midfavila> aggressive cflags are usually set by upstream
<midfavila> at least afaik
<cem> midfavila: Yeah, exactly
<dilyn> but even that isn't uniform :\
<midfavila> well, the way I look at it is this
<midfavila> if they're not set, you're not losing anything
<dilyn> some maintainers like aggressive CFLAGS, some think you should always be conservative, some will always defer to the user, even when they shouldn't...
* midfavila shrugs
<midfavila> no like
<midfavila> when I say "upstream"
<midfavila> i mean the software devs
<dilyn> yes
<midfavila> i've seen programs that build with -funroll-loops for example, even though I'd never set that myself
<dilyn> yeah
<cem> Also lazy people who didn't fix their software after GCC10 and arbitrarily add -fno-common :P
<midfavila> >mfw I was using gcc8 not too long ago
<cem> <mfw not surprised mid was using old software
<midfavila> look,
<midfavila> no bully
<midfavila> pls
<midfavila> i bruise easily
<cem> midfavila: I'm sorry :(
<midfavila> as you should be uwu
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<omanom> .17s to list installed packages vs .01s lol
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<noocsharp> omanom: what changed?
<omanom> almost the entirety of the difference in time is due to python's slow importing
<noocsharp> oh are you working on a kiss in python?
<midfavila> piss does appear to be pythonized kiss
<omanom> yeah just playing around with it
<midfavila> i actually want to write a stripped-down KISS in scheme later on...
<midfavila> it's good to see someone working on a similar project
<midfavila> "similar" in that it's a non-shell KISS, I mean
<acheam> king
<acheam> k
<acheam> noocsharp's thing
<acheam> there are a many of them :)
<midfavila> okay, well, *excuse me*, princess
<midfavila> it's not like I spend all day in here >:c
<acheam> you... don't?
<midfavila> correct
<acheam> what is this way of living?
<midfavila> i spend twenty-three hours and fifty-nine minutes per day in here
<midfavila> the one minute is to make tea
<acheam> hmm maybe augmented reality goggles that you can wear during the tea making that project this irc channel into your eyeballs?
<acheam> or a screen reader?
<acheam> we've gotta bump up your numbers
<midfavila> you joke, but if I could get a third eye-style gadget I'd already have one
<noocsharp> tbf i haven't worked on mine in several months
<dilyn> illiliti is, like with most things, going to be the first to market :v
<acheam> illilili himself, or king?
<acheam> should I be worried about human trafficking?
<midfavila> nothing to see here
<midfavila> selling an ILTI body pillow for 12000 USD
<acheam> are you a... wayfair employee?
<midfavila> IKEA
<acheam> got a coupon code?
<midfavila> not for you
<acheam> well you've got a lawsuit coming your way in that case
<noocsharp> wtf why does gas only support at&t syntax
<acheam> gas?
<noocsharp> gnu assembler
<midfavila> because intel syntax needs to die in a fire
<noocsharp> intel syntax is better in every way
<acheam> why aren't you using nasm?
<noocsharp> i am
<noocsharp> but i was trying to get gcc to compile c to intel asm
<acheam> ah
<acheam> tbf supporting two syntices seems annoying
<acheam> and if you've seen the GNU C style
<acheam> then obvs they're gonna support the worse asm style
<acheam> midfavila: you'd like the GNU C style
<acheam> its very lispy
<rio6> I know gcc can output intel syntax but that's as far as I used
<noocsharp> i wonder why
<midfavila> lithpy
<midfavila> ith becauth Thtallman liketh LISPth
<noocsharp> sereral million lines of c++ and they barely support intel syntax
<noocsharp> actually i probably would prefer nasm support to intel
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<zr> 20:56 <helpfixX> I am getting a font error whenever I try to launch xorg, what do I do? i have fontconfig, terminus-font, libreation-fonts, xorg-server, libinput, xf86-video-amdgpu, sowm, and xinit installed. will post xorg log shortly
<zr> 20:57 <helpfixX> https://pastebin.com/raw/j0AFvfus is xorg log
<zr> 20:59 <helpfixX> https://pastebin.com/raw/6rN7pu7U is dmesg output
<zr> (repeating question from the old channel)
<helpfixX> sorry for using wrong irc
<zr> eh no problem
<zr> it's confusing, all this irc drama :D
<helpfixX> i am going to post the output of startx
<helpfixX> will not be on the irc for 1 minute
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<howdoIfixX> i am back
<howdoIfixX> i do not know how to pipe startx to a file
<howdoIfixX> so nvm
<howdoIfixX> but you have the xorg log and stuff
<howdoIfixX> does anyone know how to fix this?
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<zr> howdoIfixX: patience, many users here probably haven't seen your question yet
<zr> I'm busy right now, so can't help :V
<jedavies> You have xf86-input-libinput?
<howdoIfixX> yes
<howdoIfixX> i have tried as root
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<jedavies> Works as root?
<jedavies> If so, check your user is in the "input" group
<howdoIfixX> no
<howdoIfixX> user is input group, i have tried using root, it does not work
<noocsharp> the font errors are usually meaningless
<noocsharp> and your logs seem to indicate that xorg is starting properly
<jedavies> You have eudev or some alternative service running?
<howdoIfixX> i do not know
<howdoIfixX> i installed eudev
<howdoIfixX> i i did not start it
<midfavila> ps -e | grep udevd
<midfavila> should tell you whether it's running
<howdoIfixX> also, do i need libudev-zero for libinput if I have eudev?
<midfavila> no
<midfavila> libudev isn't needed if you have udev
<howdoIfixX> is eudev udev?
<midfavila> yes. it's just udev without a reliance on systemd
<howdoIfixX> thx
<howdoIfixX> am going to reboot from this livecd to check
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<kisslinux> i am helpfixX
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<kisslinux> i mean howdoIfixX
<kisslinux> the output for the command i got is
<kisslinux> 254 kiss 0:00 grep udev
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<midfavila> yeah, so, that means that udev isn't running
<kisslinux> how do i get it to run
<midfavila> ...tell your init to start it during boot?
<midfavila> the documentation for your init system should be able to tell you how
<midfavila> i think busybox init starts processes from inittab, like sysvinit, but I'm not sure
<kisslinux> i used my text editor to open /etc/iinittab, do I just put "eudev &"?
<midfavila> no idea. I don't use busybox
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<kisslinux> ln -s /etc/eudev /var/service should work right ?
* midfavila shrugs?
<midfavila> doubtful?
<jedavies> kisslinux: ln -s /etc/sv/udevd /var/service
<kisslinux> i am going to reboot to check if that fixed it, will keep posted
<kisslinux> bye for a sec
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<helpmefixX> Startx still does not work after using ln -s /etc/sv/udevd /var/service
<jslick0> What is in .xinitrc?
<helpmefixX> exec sowm
<noocsharp> what's the output of pgrep udev?
<helpmefixX> 250
<noocsharp> ok, so it is running
<noocsharp> is .xinitrc executable?
<noocsharp> and does it have a shebang?
<helpmefixX> i do not know what a shebang is
<midfavila> #!
<noocsharp> put "#!/bin/sh" as the first line
<noocsharp> and chmod +x .xinitrc
<midfavila> marks a text file as an executable using the program at the given path
<helpmefixX> Ok
<helpmefixX> Startx still fails
<helpmefixX> I put that line at the beggining
<helpmefixX> And i made it executable
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<noocsharp> when you say fails, does a black screen show up and it goes back to the console?
<helpmefixX> Yes
<noocsharp> have you tried using xf86-video-vesa?
<helpmefixX> i will try
<helpmefixX> I already have installed amdgpu tho
<jedavies> Also does it work as root now what udev is running?
<helpmefixX> No.
<helpmefixX> Still fails after installing vesa
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<helpmefixX> I gtg
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<riteo> welp I enabled airplane mode and fell asleep
<riteo> oh, no more orangutangs?
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<midfavila> no
<midfavila> we shot them all
<midfavila> and turned them into vests
<riteo> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<midfavila> yes
<midfavila> and you're next
<midfavila> you will make a fine hat, riteo
<riteo> I didn't know I was an orangutang
<riteo> cool
<midfavila> humans are apes
<midfavila> so like
<midfavila> it's whatever
<midfavila> basically the same thing
<riteo> right, right
<riteo> what hat will I be?
<riteo> "A fine hat" is really vague
<midfavila> what's a stereotypically italian hat
<riteo> mhh
<riteo> do we have stereotipical hats?
<midfavila> i guess since a lot of the mobsters in old american movies were italian... maybe a fedora
<midfavila> idk
* midfavila shrugs
<riteo> eh
<midfavila> kind of a stretch, i know
<midfavila> you get off this time
<riteo> epic
<midfavila> but mark my words, monkey-man
<midfavila> one of these days
<riteo> one of these days what
<midfavila> i'll leave that... up to you
<riteo> oh
<midfavila> cue ominous music, fade to black
<riteo> truly evil
<midfavila> actually, I guess I could turn you into a red hat
<midfavila> :thinking:
<riteo> now *that's* evil