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<ebrasca>
Good morning!
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<beach>
Hello ebrasca.
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<phoe>
minion: memo for green_: try to SETF the SYMBOL-VALUE of FIND-SYMBOL in order to avoid having a read-time dependency on the symbol.
<minion>
Remembered. I'll tell green_ when he/she/it next speaks.
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<phoe>
minion: memo for elderK: glad to hear this
<minion>
Remembered. I'll tell elderK when he/she/it next speaks.
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<prxq>
I'm looking for a simple package to interface to mysql. I'm thinking of something similar in functionality to pymysql, with prepared statements, cursors, etc. but not an ORM. Any recommendations?
<ixelp>
GitHub - fukamachi/cl-dbi: Database independent interface for Common Lisp
<alcor>
Not sure what other options there are. Supposedly clsql can be used without an ORM but I didn't find any info on that, or whether the package is still maintained (lots of links are broken)
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<prxq>
alcor: thanks, that looks good.
<prxq>
alcor: there's a lot of rot in these old libraries, unfortunately.
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<Pixel_Outlaw>
Any thoughts on a GUI system to create a fast raster editor? I know GTK was broken on Mac last time I checked. I'm considering Swing and ABCL for portability.
<Pixel_Outlaw>
Essentially something that's not going to die if I floodfill a 1920x1080 screen. :P
<bjorkintosh>
McClim?
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<Shinmera>
tangent, why are folks still using mysql
<Equill>
Familiarity?
<Equill>
I admit that would be one reason I'd use PostgreSQL if I needed a relational DBMS again.
<Shinmera>
there's a myriad of reasons not to use mysql/mariadb, and if you can't translate your sql experience to postgres' flavour, lord help you I guess
<Shinmera>
anyhow
<Shinmera>
Pixel_Outlaw: What exactly do you intend to do? Like, a painting program?
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<prxq>
Shinmera: not aware of any reason *not* to use it. What's the problem with it?
<Shinmera>
everything, really
<Shinmera>
its query processor is awful, the internal team org is awful, it has really awful legacy cruft, etc etc.
<Shinmera>
There hasn't been a reason to use it for like ten years
<Shinmera>
actually scratch that 15 years
<Shinmera>
postgres is the thing to use for rdb
<Shinmera>
and postmodern is an excellent library for it
<ixelp>
GitHub - marijnh/Postmodern: A Common Lisp PostgreSQL programming interface
<Shinmera>
yes
<prxq>
Shinmera: I haver rather simple needs, hadn't noticed any problem with mysql.
<Equill>
About 20 years ago, its advantages over Postgres were speed and use of the GPL. The speed advantage went away long ago. I remember them adding InnoDB, where the "innovation" was some semblence of data integrity, but the "near enough is good enough" approach to data-types was always concerning.
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<prxq>
Well if you all say so - I guess postmodern + postgresql is going to be it :-)
<Equill>
Yay!
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<Bubblegumdrop>
McCLIMLloy
<Bubblegumdrop>
Gooey Investigator
<Shinmera>
it is theoretically possible to run either on top of the other.
<Bubblegumdrop>
Shinmera I can link your treehouse videos? I know they're outdated but I learned a lot about your kandria setup from the Leaf project
<Shinmera>
you don't need to ask me for permission, the videos are public
<Shinmera>
though for Alloy in particular the examples it ships and the kandria source are better reference points
<Bubblegumdrop>
Yes that's where I left off.
<Shinmera>
and trial's examples, now that they have some UI
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<zyd>
A week or so back I went through and watched all the Alloy videos for a high-level understanding of it. Good stuff. Lots of bird noises :)
<Shinmera>
who knows if I'll ever do streams like that again
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<notzmv>
interesting stuff
<notzmv>
I hope you're undergoing treatment for that Shinmera
<Shinmera>
there's no treatment for streaming. once you stream, your soul is tainted forever
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<notzmv>
I meant the depression :)
<notzmv>
you do great work
<zyd>
streamer brain is quite serious. makes one hallucinate at all times
<zyd>
"is this real chat!?"
<Shinmera>
it's off topic here, but if you want to know I've written plenty at length about my situation on my blog
<notzmv>
I'll read when I have some time, thanks
<younder>
Looking at how to meter cache misses and whether my data will fit in cache. Seems like you have to really dig in and read the hardware performance counters. Has anyone seen any any tools for this?
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<Shinmera>
no
<Shinmera>
you're looking at the realm of asm
<Shinmera>
it's also even cpu model specific
<Shinmera>
so
<Shinmera>
good luck
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<prxq>
Is there a more or less stable, relatively simple gui toolkit out there? Tk-based would suffice.
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<younder>
(ql:quickload "iup")
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<lispmacs[work]>
hi, in one file I want to make another name for a built-in function, so it matches the algorithm documentation. What is the simplest way to do that?
<lispmacs[work]>
more specifically, I want to able to call TRUNCATE by the name FIX.
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<elderK>
lispmacs[work]: Why not just wrap the function?
<minion>
elderK, memo from phoe: glad to hear this
<elderK>
lispmacs[work]: As long as it's inlinable, there should be no appreciable overhead, afaik.
<lispmacs[work]>
elderK: just thought there might be something more elegant, like (defalias truncate fix)
<lispmacs[work]>
as opposed to passing the parameters and such
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<elderK>
lispmacs[work]: I understand. I wish we could rename on import, too. I think there are ways to achieve what you're asking, at least in some form but I don't know enough to know whether they are safe.
<elderK>
For instance, you could get truncate's function definition, and copy it to a new symbol.
<elderK>
I'd suggest just wrapping the function, though :)
<lispmacs[work]>
I just imagined that I could just somehow change the function reference of one symbol to be the same as the other symbol
<elderK>
You could write a defalias macro, though, that would do the boilerplate for you.
<elderK>
Moment, I'll look up CLHS for something you can play with.
<lispmacs[work]>
the symbols are just pointing to the functions, right?
<lispmacs[work]>
the function part of the symbol, I mean
<elderK>
Symbols are pretty complex: They contain a lot of information, one of which is the symbol's function definition (in the global scope.)
<elderK>
You could use this to extract truncate's function definition, and copy it to another symbol.
<elderK>
You'd need to ask others here though, as to whether that's a good idea or not :)
* lispmacs[work]
turns to others
<lispmacs[work]>
any reason not to do that?
<elderK>
I'm not sure: From my perspective, it seems like it would be a safe thing to do. I'd experiment and see what you learn.
<mfiano>
I would use fdefinition instead.
<bike>
it won't copy over anything _but_ the function. so for example, the compiler won't know about your alias, and won't inline it or do whatever special optimizations it has for a basic arithmetic function like truncate.
<elderK>
bike: Is there a way to do what copy-symbol does, but with a new name?
<elderK>
Or would you have to enumerate over, and copy, the properties?
<bike>
there's probably no way to copy it at all. that compiler stuff isn't usually in the symbol plist.
<elderK>
Yeah, that's what I'd figure: The compiler will treat some things specially.
<elderK>
mfiano: Is fdefinition preferred because it accesses the global function?
<mfiano>
A function may not be just a symbol. It can be a (setf foo). This was a later addition to the standard IIRC.
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<lispmacs[work]>
so, would that be (setf (fdefinition fix) (fdefinition truncate)) ?
<mfiano>
may not be named by just a symbol, rather
<mfiano>
It would be the same exact syntax as symbol-function
<mfiano>
As noted
<elderK>
mfiano: Thanks :)
<_death>
maybe just use the name TRUNCATE, as that is what a CL programmer knows and expects to see
<mfiano>
The exception is that you can also access the symbol function of the function #'(setf foo)
<lispmacs[work]>
_death: don't care about them
<_death>
lispmacs: about who
<lispmacs[work]>
the other CL programmers
<elderK>
lispmacs[work]: I'd still suggest just wrapping truncate. If that's too much effort, write a defalias macro that does it for you. But if you want to experiment, try out fdefinition and stuff.
<_death>
lispmacs: I see
<lispmacs[work]>
fdefinition sounds like what I want, I think. gotta look at this symbol-function syntax first, apparently
<mfiano>
I don't think there is any reason to use symbol-function over fdefinition. I would ask bike on this one.
<bike>
you are correct. i think of symbol-function as deprecated.
<mfiano>
Same, ok good.
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<lispmacs[work]>
so, (setf (fdefinition 'fix) (fdefinition 'truncate)) seems to do what I want
<lispmacs[work]>
thx
<Bubblegumdrop>
lispmacs[work] perhaps you could put defalias into a package
<Bubblegumdrop>
If it's useful to you it may be useful to others
<Bubblegumdrop>
I recently asked about calling a function by another name
<Bubblegumdrop>
It would be useful to me
<lispmacs[work]>
Am open-minded, but would wonder why one of the other gurus here hasn't done it already
<Bubblegumdrop>
prxq personally for apps with a GUI I like to use the web, I've been making heavy use of Caveman
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<Bubblegumdrop>
prxq a problem with desktop GUI toolkits is your lisp application is then tied to external libs e.g. .so files on GNU/linux
<Bubblegumdrop>
I need to spend more time looking at CLIM
<lispmacs[work]>
I'm using CLIM right now for a project
<ixelp>
McCLIM â A powerful GUI toolkit for Common Lisp
<Bubblegumdrop>
I'm not sure what the difference between McCLIM and CLIM is, "McCLIM is a FOSS implementation of the Common Lisp Interface Manager specification"
<Bubblegumdrop>
There's a channel #clim
<_death>
it's similar to the difference between SBCL and CL
<Bubblegumdrop>
seems about it
<Bubblegumdrop>
Even in the topic for #clim it's advertised as McCLIM
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<_death>
well, mcclim is the only free implementation still in development (and this is libera)
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<elderK>
Guys, is it possible to *rename* a symbol? :D
<elderK>
I figure not but I thought I'd check :)
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<_death>
it is not possible
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<Bubblegumdrop>
elderK somebody was just asking about aliasing a symbol, I'm not sure if you could (setf (fdefinition ...) ...) to your preferred name then maybe (setf (fdefinition ...) nil) ?
<Bubblegumdrop>
This allows you to call it by another name, it works for me...
<aeth>
for aliasing a function, I'd personally just prefer a trivial inline function (i.e. DECLAIMed inline), though there's an inline expansion limit which means that it may be ignored (SBCL defaults to 50?)... the limit, of course, can be 0 if it's always ignored. Or perhaps a smart compiler selectively ignores.
<aeth>
it's easier than you think to hit such a limit
<aeth>
seems less hacky, though
<Bubblegumdrop>
,sb-ext:*inline-expansion-limit*
<ixelp>
sb-ext:*inline-expansion-limit* ERROR: There is no package named "SB-EXT" .
<Bubblegumdrop>
sb-ext::*inline-expansion-limit*
<Bubblegumdrop>
thanks!
<aeth>
the bot is CCL
<Bubblegumdrop>
indeed
<Bubblegumdrop>
If I set *inline-expansion-limit* higher will it do what I expect?
<aeth>
afaik, the main problem with a high inline expansion limit (beyond the fact that it's implementation-specific if such a limit is configurable and what its name is) is that if you accidentally try to inline a recursive function (i.e. infinite inline expansion), you'll error later rather than sooner
<aeth>
it can also probably make the code of a function quite large, but a one-liner shouldn't really impact it at all, especially not one being used as an alias
<Bubblegumdrop>
Hmm
<aeth>
s/of a function/of a caller function/
<aeth>
it's nothing too unusual, though, because macros pose similar issues.
<Kingsy>
does anyone know of a nice way in cl to urldecode? so "hello%40hello.com" back to "hello@hello.com "
<Kingsy>
I suppose I could do it with cl-ppcre but i am surprised there isnt something specifically for it, rather than me having to write some regex
<Kingsy>
I was hoping drakma had a function for it. but it doesnt seem to
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