jackdaniel changed the topic of #commonlisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | Wiki: <https://www.cliki.net> | IRC Logs: <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23commonlisp> | Cookbook: <https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook> | Pastebin: <https://plaster.tymoon.eu/>
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<chomwitt> Hi. I hope my question is not irrelevant. I try StumpWM and i noticed that debian package has the lisp files included and so a package for ALL architectures. But arch has only a amd64 package with a binary and none lisp files.
<chomwitt> So how can in arch the sblc run the binary ?
<chomwitt> s/sblc/sbcl
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<beach> If the binary is an executable, I suspect it won't need an installed SBCL.
<chomwitt> beach, yes. i checked it. its an ELF executable.
<Nilby> chomwitt: sbcl can save an exectutable that contains itself and all the loaded/compiled code that acts as relatively normal program.
<ixelp> Arch Linux - stumpwm 22.11-7 (x86_64)
<beach> chomwitt: I am not sure what you perceive as strange here.
<chomwitt> So SBLC is just a compiler ? There is not need of it to run stumpwm ?
<beach> chomwitt: There is an SBCL included in the executable as Nilby said.
<chomwitt> but why arch has sbcl as depedency ?
* beach wouldn't know.
<chomwitt> beach, could it be that they dont know either ? :-)
<beach> Possibly.
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<chomwitt> i havent test it in arch. In my devuan system i noticed that when running stumpwm and seeing it's version it reported 'ver 1.0.1 compiled in 5 Feb 2024'. That issue prompted my little quest because the version in the package was supposedly 22.11-3
<chomwitt> and in debian the executable is a script with : sbcl --load "/usr/lib/stumpwm/load.lisp"
<chomwitt> so being a clisp newbie that command seems to me like feeding code to an intepreter..
<beach> Er, clisp is not Common Lisp. It is an implementation of Common Lisp.
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<chomwitt> sorry for that
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<beach> Yes, it sounds like Debian is compiling from source and using an installed SBCL, whereas arch is distributing a binary containing everything.
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<beach> Furthermore, SBCL does not use an interpreter by default. Everything is compiled.
<chomwitt> ok. thank you!
<beach> But it is likely that the Debian version is compiling some things at startup. Possibly just the load.lisp file.
<beach> That's not a problem though. The compiler is pretty fast.
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<chomwitt> i see.
<Nilby> beach: I'm sorry to be a "well actually" guy, but sbcl does use an interpreter for throw away forms since it's faster.
<beach> Oh, OK. How is a "throw-away form" defined?
<Nilby> things that probably don't end up as code in a fasl
<beach> I need to think about that. Thanks for the information.
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<beach> Nilby: If I do (defun f (x) x) at the REPL, and then (compiled-function-p #'f) I get T.
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<beach> And I don't see any FASL involved here.
<Nilby> defun isn't thrown away
<Nilby> but if you just have like (+ 2 3) in file, it doesn't need to save it, and it's quicker not to compile it
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<beach> I see.
<Nilby> i've read through it, but i don't remember it very well. it's called sb-fasteval, i think written by doug katzman a while back.
<beach> I believe you.
<Nilby> maybe it's only used when building sbcl itself, since i don't see sb-fasteval in my *features*
<Nilby> sbcl/src/interpreter/README talks about it's reasoning
<Nilby> i guess it's designed to speed up macro expansion but maybe not turned on in the build anymore
<beach> I wonder whether it is worth the trouble.
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<_death> may be worth the trouble if you have something calling EVAL repeatedly with simple forms
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<dnhester26> I would like to add an option to a slot, does anyone know how to do this? E.g. like :initargs, I want something called :has-many that can accept a T value
<ixelp> Initialization of Slot Definition Metaobjects
<dnhester26> That's the MOP doc that probably referes to what I'm talking about, but from there I don't really know what to do to do it
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<dnhester26> I started adding the MOP docs to the Technical Reference so that we can add examples as well given how hard it is to find them https://lisp-docs.github.io/cl-language-reference/meta-object-protocol/chap-6/6-1-sections#615-initialization-of-slot-definition-metaobjects
<ixelp> 6.1 Sections | Common Lisp (New) Language Reference
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<_death> dnhester26: here's an old snippet that allows having a :history-max-depth option in slot specifiers https://gist.github.com/death/c4996d3a39559fb69d0f2c92f56e2bb5
<ixelp> history class · GitHub
<_death> dnhester26: another approach would be to avoid MOP and have your own defclass-like macro
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<_death> I believe AMOP has more examples but don't have access to it at the moment
<dnhester26> _death: thanks, I'll look into it
<dnhester26> AMOP is a system like closer-mop?
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<_death> AMOP is the book "The Art of the Metaobject Protocol"
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<dnhester26> ah, thanks, I just saw somewhere in chapter 3 they explain it, but only chapters 5 and 6 are available easily online
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<Shinmera> New release: https://shinmera.github.io/cl-gog-galaxy/ Support my continued work on Patreon: https://patreon.com/shinmera
<ixelp> Cl Gog Galaxy
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<dnhester26> _beach: thanks I can now create the slot, how can I then access it from the class? I can do inspect on (inspect (find-class 'foo)) and see it's there, but how can I access it from the code?
<dnhester26> take it back
<dnhester26> (has-foo-slot-p (car (c2mop:class-direct-slots (find-class 'foo))))
<dnhester26> got it, I define the accessor in the direct and effect slot definition classes
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<kevingal> usocket question: is there a way to configure a TCP socket so that calling READ-SEQUENCE on the socket stream reads in as many bytes as are available and then returns?
<kevingal> Right now, it's reading in a couple of bytes and then hanging because the buffer isn't full and there are no more bytes.
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<gilberth> kevingal: There isn't.
<kevingal> Hm, do I need to read the bytes one at a time and keep checking usocket:socket-state, then?
<gilberth> And that would make READ-SEQUENCE not behave as specified by ANSI-CL. Your only chance is to to loop with using READ-CHAR-NO-HANG. READ-BYTE and LISTEN won't work in case of EOF (the connection being closed by the peer) because LISTEN would return NIL in that case.
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<gilberth> I have no clue what SOCKET-STATE is. The proper API is LISTEN and as this is broken by specification READ-CHAR-NO-HANG.
<gilberth> I was working on a proposal to add an option to READ-SEQUENCE for UNIX behavior and/or better buffer access, but never managed to finish that.
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<kevingal> Agh, annoying. I would need a READ-BYTE-NO-HANG.
<gilberth> As ANSI-CL is specified it's not possible to write fast TCP/IP servers and you can't do at all when you want to read octets.
<gilberth> kevingal: Right. That one is missing as well.
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<ixelp> common lisp - Slot Definition Disappearing when using two metaclasses - Stack Overflow
<dnhester26> _death: thanks for the help. Do you have any idea why the above is happening?
<younder> Just read sbcl/src/interpreter. As for fasteval it needs to be compiled in and SB-EXT:*EVALUATOR-MODE* needs to be :interpret. By default the variable isn't set, so evaluation isn't used.
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<younder> I mean it is set to :compile
<younder> It was news to me as well. Just like that arena collector. SBCL just keeps throwing surprises at me :)
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<kevingal> Thanks anyway, gilberth.
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<beach> dnhester26: You probably need to define your methods specialized to oql-metaclass rather than to has-many-meta-class. Otherwise, it is not clear which method on direct/effective-slot-definition-class is going to be applicable. Yours or that of MITO.
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<beach> dnhester26: Also, DEFMETHOD is a standard operator. There is no need to supply a CLOSER-MOP package prefix for it.
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<beach> dnhester26: Oh, and MITO probably does the same thing that you do, which is to define its own direct/effective-slot-definition. So you probably need to define classes for those that have your slot-definition classes and those of MITO as superclasses, and have direct/effective-slot-definition-class return those class metaobjects.
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<younder> cl-raylib has a nasty habit of crashing if you send the functions the wrong parameters. (draw-circle 400 700 100 :red) crashes the REPL because the radius is expected to be a float.. Similarly a color it doesn't recognize crashes it.
<younder> Perhaps I should add some type checks to this lib..
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<younder> Otherwise very cool. Simple to get impressive results.
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<Bubblegumdrop> Hey, MITO
<Bubblegumdrop> I love using MITO.
<Bubblegumdrop> Somebody's doing something with it? I may be able to help.
<Bubblegumdrop> Shinmera Hey! Love your work!
<Shinmera> Hello, happy to hear!
<Bubblegumdrop> Thank you for all your hard work.
<beach> Bubblegumdrop: Give him some money!
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<Bubblegumdrop> sigh, I plan to, once I have some of my own...
<Shinmera> that's how it usually goes
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<Bubblegumdrop> I pre-ordered Kandria, fwiw ;_;
<Shinmera> ha ha, thank you
<Bubblegumdrop> Places tell me to expect to hear back with an offer and then ghost me. Very frustrating.
<beach> Oops. "her", sorry!
<Shinmera> beach: it's fine, figured it was habit :)
<beach> Yeah!
<Bubblegumdrop> Oh yeah, I suppose that's a bit off topic but congrats nontheless
<Shinmera> So much to do....
<Bubblegumdrop> indeed.
<Shinmera> Still haven't gotten the time to search for an ELS'25 venue or work on the paper for ELS'24
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<Shinmera> Well, I did intend to work on the paper tomorrow, so let's see if it happens
<Bubblegumdrop> GL!
<Bubblegumdrop> Let's see, it looks like kevingal left
<Bubblegumdrop> Don't hunchentoot and woo server use an event loop? I know woo uses libev to listen on a socket.
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<Shinmera> hunchentoot is threaded by default
<Bubblegumdrop> It does not use libev, I know that much. I know more about woo than hunchentoot, tbh.
<Shinmera> hunchentoot's default acceptor just spawns a thread for each connection
<Shinmera> there's extension libraries that provide a pool instead
<Shinmera> not sure if there's one for an event-loop instead.
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<Bubblegumdrop> oh dnhester26 is doing exactly the same thing I was doing...
<Bubblegumdrop> That metaclass stuff was tricky.
<Bubblegumdrop> I think has-many-meta-class needs to inherit from mito:dao-table-mixin if anyone is wondering. I can look at my code for my solution.
<Bubblegumdrop> (defclass registered-table-class (mito:dao-table-class) ())
<Bubblegumdrop> mito:dao-table-class not mixin
<ixelp> 2023-12-17: REGISTERED-TABLE-CLASS for MITO
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<Bubblegumdrop> I did end up getting a copy of AMOP for it.
<Bubblegumdrop> I didn't know PCL went for $70+
<Bubblegumdrop> I managed to find a used copy..
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