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<chomwitt>
Hi. I hope my question is not irrelevant. I try StumpWM and i noticed that debian package has the lisp files included and so a package for ALL architectures. But arch has only a amd64 package with a binary and none lisp files.
<chomwitt>
So how can in arch the sblc run the binary ?
<chomwitt>
s/sblc/sbcl
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<beach>
If the binary is an executable, I suspect it won't need an installed SBCL.
<chomwitt>
beach, yes. i checked it. its an ELF executable.
<Nilby>
chomwitt: sbcl can save an exectutable that contains itself and all the loaded/compiled code that acts as relatively normal program.
<beach>
chomwitt: I am not sure what you perceive as strange here.
<chomwitt>
So SBLC is just a compiler ? There is not need of it to run stumpwm ?
<beach>
chomwitt: There is an SBCL included in the executable as Nilby said.
<chomwitt>
but why arch has sbcl as depedency ?
* beach
wouldn't know.
<chomwitt>
beach, could it be that they dont know either ? :-)
<beach>
Possibly.
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<chomwitt>
i havent test it in arch. In my devuan system i noticed that when running stumpwm and seeing it's version it reported 'ver 1.0.1 compiled in 5 Feb 2024'. That issue prompted my little quest because the version in the package was supposedly 22.11-3
<chomwitt>
and in debian the executable is a script with : sbcl --load "/usr/lib/stumpwm/load.lisp"
<chomwitt>
so being a clisp newbie that command seems to me like feeding code to an intepreter..
<beach>
Er, clisp is not Common Lisp. It is an implementation of Common Lisp.
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<chomwitt>
sorry for that
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<beach>
Yes, it sounds like Debian is compiling from source and using an installed SBCL, whereas arch is distributing a binary containing everything.
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<beach>
Furthermore, SBCL does not use an interpreter by default. Everything is compiled.
<chomwitt>
ok. thank you!
<beach>
But it is likely that the Debian version is compiling some things at startup. Possibly just the load.lisp file.
<beach>
That's not a problem though. The compiler is pretty fast.
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<chomwitt>
i see.
<Nilby>
beach: I'm sorry to be a "well actually" guy, but sbcl does use an interpreter for throw away forms since it's faster.
<beach>
Oh, OK. How is a "throw-away form" defined?
<Nilby>
things that probably don't end up as code in a fasl
<beach>
I need to think about that. Thanks for the information.
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<beach>
Nilby: If I do (defun f (x) x) at the REPL, and then (compiled-function-p #'f) I get T.
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<beach>
And I don't see any FASL involved here.
<Nilby>
defun isn't thrown away
<Nilby>
but if you just have like (+ 2 3) in file, it doesn't need to save it, and it's quicker not to compile it
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<beach>
I see.
<Nilby>
i've read through it, but i don't remember it very well. it's called sb-fasteval, i think written by doug katzman a while back.
<beach>
I believe you.
<Nilby>
maybe it's only used when building sbcl itself, since i don't see sb-fasteval in my *features*
<Nilby>
sbcl/src/interpreter/README talks about it's reasoning
<Nilby>
i guess it's designed to speed up macro expansion but maybe not turned on in the build anymore
<beach>
I wonder whether it is worth the trouble.
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<_death>
may be worth the trouble if you have something calling EVAL repeatedly with simple forms
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<dnhester26>
I would like to add an option to a slot, does anyone know how to do this? E.g. like :initargs, I want something called :has-many that can accept a T value
<dnhester26>
_beach: thanks I can now create the slot, how can I then access it from the class? I can do inspect on (inspect (find-class 'foo)) and see it's there, but how can I access it from the code?
<dnhester26>
got it, I define the accessor in the direct and effect slot definition classes
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<kevingal>
usocket question: is there a way to configure a TCP socket so that calling READ-SEQUENCE on the socket stream reads in as many bytes as are available and then returns?
<kevingal>
Right now, it's reading in a couple of bytes and then hanging because the buffer isn't full and there are no more bytes.
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<gilberth>
kevingal: There isn't.
<kevingal>
Hm, do I need to read the bytes one at a time and keep checking usocket:socket-state, then?
<gilberth>
And that would make READ-SEQUENCE not behave as specified by ANSI-CL. Your only chance is to to loop with using READ-CHAR-NO-HANG. READ-BYTE and LISTEN won't work in case of EOF (the connection being closed by the peer) because LISTEN would return NIL in that case.
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<gilberth>
I have no clue what SOCKET-STATE is. The proper API is LISTEN and as this is broken by specification READ-CHAR-NO-HANG.
<gilberth>
I was working on a proposal to add an option to READ-SEQUENCE for UNIX behavior and/or better buffer access, but never managed to finish that.
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<kevingal>
Agh, annoying. I would need a READ-BYTE-NO-HANG.
<gilberth>
As ANSI-CL is specified it's not possible to write fast TCP/IP servers and you can't do at all when you want to read octets.
<gilberth>
kevingal: Right. That one is missing as well.
<ixelp>
common lisp - Slot Definition Disappearing when using two metaclasses - Stack Overflow
<dnhester26>
_death: thanks for the help. Do you have any idea why the above is happening?
<younder>
Just read sbcl/src/interpreter. As for fasteval it needs to be compiled in and SB-EXT:*EVALUATOR-MODE* needs to be :interpret. By default the variable isn't set, so evaluation isn't used.
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<younder>
I mean it is set to :compile
<younder>
It was news to me as well. Just like that arena collector. SBCL just keeps throwing surprises at me :)
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<kevingal>
Thanks anyway, gilberth.
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<beach>
dnhester26: You probably need to define your methods specialized to oql-metaclass rather than to has-many-meta-class. Otherwise, it is not clear which method on direct/effective-slot-definition-class is going to be applicable. Yours or that of MITO.
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<beach>
dnhester26: Also, DEFMETHOD is a standard operator. There is no need to supply a CLOSER-MOP package prefix for it.
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<beach>
dnhester26: Oh, and MITO probably does the same thing that you do, which is to define its own direct/effective-slot-definition. So you probably need to define classes for those that have your slot-definition classes and those of MITO as superclasses, and have direct/effective-slot-definition-class return those class metaobjects.
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<younder>
cl-raylib has a nasty habit of crashing if you send the functions the wrong parameters. (draw-circle 400 700 100 :red) crashes the REPL because the radius is expected to be a float.. Similarly a color it doesn't recognize crashes it.
<younder>
Perhaps I should add some type checks to this lib..
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<younder>
Otherwise very cool. Simple to get impressive results.
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<Bubblegumdrop>
Hey, MITO
<Bubblegumdrop>
I love using MITO.
<Bubblegumdrop>
Somebody's doing something with it? I may be able to help.
<Bubblegumdrop>
Shinmera Hey! Love your work!
<Shinmera>
Hello, happy to hear!
<Bubblegumdrop>
Thank you for all your hard work.
<beach>
Bubblegumdrop: Give him some money!
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<Bubblegumdrop>
sigh, I plan to, once I have some of my own...
<Shinmera>
that's how it usually goes
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<Bubblegumdrop>
I pre-ordered Kandria, fwiw ;_;
<Shinmera>
ha ha, thank you
<Bubblegumdrop>
Places tell me to expect to hear back with an offer and then ghost me. Very frustrating.
<beach>
Oops. "her", sorry!
<Shinmera>
beach: it's fine, figured it was habit :)
<beach>
Yeah!
<Bubblegumdrop>
Oh yeah, I suppose that's a bit off topic but congrats nontheless
<Shinmera>
So much to do....
<Bubblegumdrop>
indeed.
<Shinmera>
Still haven't gotten the time to search for an ELS'25 venue or work on the paper for ELS'24
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<Shinmera>
Well, I did intend to work on the paper tomorrow, so let's see if it happens
<Bubblegumdrop>
GL!
<Bubblegumdrop>
Let's see, it looks like kevingal left
<Bubblegumdrop>
Don't hunchentoot and woo server use an event loop? I know woo uses libev to listen on a socket.
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<Shinmera>
hunchentoot is threaded by default
<Bubblegumdrop>
It does not use libev, I know that much. I know more about woo than hunchentoot, tbh.
<Shinmera>
hunchentoot's default acceptor just spawns a thread for each connection
<Shinmera>
there's extension libraries that provide a pool instead
<Shinmera>
not sure if there's one for an event-loop instead.
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<Bubblegumdrop>
oh dnhester26 is doing exactly the same thing I was doing...
<Bubblegumdrop>
That metaclass stuff was tricky.
<Bubblegumdrop>
I think has-many-meta-class needs to inherit from mito:dao-table-mixin if anyone is wondering. I can look at my code for my solution.