<ixelp>
GitHub - carld/micro-lisp: 🎄A very small Lisp programming language 😀that used to be under 200 lines of C🎄
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<dnhester`>
hayley: thanks, I realized after I wrote that that it was wrong, the compiler could simply keep track of the places of every split code and replace it with newly split code were there to be any changes in the source. so it could be changed easily... thanks for the link to the paper.
<dnhester`>
scymtym: the whole declaration question was for the let-plus. Could it be much more simple to just provide the user some interface where he let's the macro know what type of declaration he is making? he could just wrap his declaration in a (declare-* (declaration here... )) where * is replaced by all the types of declarations for which let-plus has to figure out where to write themand now without the need for any implementation specific
<dnhester`>
code, we can tell where it needs to go... it would probably take me a bit to write it since it's been a while, but it's probably not so complicated.... declare-* can be a macro that simply takes whatever body is passed to it and stores it in an object of type declaration-*-object where the * is the declaration type, and then the let-plus macro can just check the type of object and depending on the class, write that code in the proper
<dnhester`>
place... That was the whole question, right? is this approach possible? and does it make sense? it's good I think we avoid all this dealing with implementations mess, even if it wasn't so hard to figure out the type of the declaration which from reading the conversation does not seem to be the cae, this approach just sidesteps all of that difficulty and it's also portable
<beach>
I for one would not bother using such a macro, especially since it makes the code harder to read for anybody who is not already familiar with the macro.
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<dnhester`>
beach: yeah, it's referring to a bug in the current let-plus macro which allows to do shorter bindings with other things like (I think) destructuring bind, but scymtym (I think it was him) mentioned that there was a bug related to declarations. That's how the whole discussion of figuring out the declaration type bagan, because that was the bug. He said depending on the type it had to be written in different places, and hence the
<dnhester`>
interest in figuring out the type of the declaration.
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<beach>
Sure.
<beach>
dnhester`: What is your native language? Don't feel you have to answer if you don't want to.
<beach>
I am asking because in English, you can't write "allows to" with out some agent between the two, and I know speakers of French and German tend to forget.
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<dnhester`>
beach: hm, what's an example of an agent? I didn't know haha I grew up speaking spanish and english and went to college in the US, but my formal english training was just the two english classes I had to take as en engineer/scientist at Georgia Tech
<beach>
"this allows the user to..."
<beach>
I see.
<dnhester`>
I am also surrounded by people speaking yiddish (which is a german dialect) the whole day and that has messed up my english a lot!
<beach>
My brother has that problem.
<beach>
Not with yiddish, but with many other languages.
<dnhester`>
there are all sorts of expressions that people around me say in english which are just simply incorrect because they are word for word translation from yiddish. I stopped noticing and got used to speaking that way, so I would assume it comes from there more than my upbringing in spanish
<beach>
I fully understand.
<dnhester`>
does it not happen to you because you speak french (I assume) most of the day?
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<dnhester`>
Perhaps the problem with me is that the people around me use english incorrectly, which is I think worse than speaking in a different language
<beach>
The native language of my wife is English, so we speak English at home.
<dnhester`>
which is*... i changed that sentence half way through
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<dnhester`>
ha, could've said my wife's native language hahaha
<beach>
I try to avoid using the genitive 's with non-proper nouns.
<dnhester`>
I see, but I think even in my prime, your english is far superior to mine
<beach>
"The little cute red-colored wooden house's window" shows the important word last, which I try to avoid.
<dnhester`>
is that to make it easier to understand?
<beach>
Yes.
<beach>
So I tend to write "the window of the little cute red-colored wooden house"
<dnhester`>
interesting, I never noticed anyone doing that before
<beach>
Then the important word comes first.
<beach>
Yes, many people don't use the "of" option much in English.
<beach>
My wife was a technical writer when she was still working, and I learned a lot of tricks like that from her.
<beach>
... to increase the precision of the text and to make it easier to read correctly.
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<beach>
dnhester`: You will find her name in "Lisp in Small Pieces" because wrote the English version from the French original.
<beach>
*because she wrote...
<dnhester`>
Nice, that's why you know so much. But I have a feeling that you probably were already pretty good at english writing beforehand
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<beach>
Hard to say. I learned English (badly) in school, and didn't work on it seriously until I was 20 or so.
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<dnhester`>
ah wow, that's even more impressive
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<younder>
Sounds normal for french people. Not big fans of english..
<beach>
younder: Maybe so, but then, I am not French, nor is French my native language.
<beach>
I did have the advantage that all TV shows were broadcast in original language, so I was exposed to English from when I was a small child.
<younder>
Yeah, that helps. In Norway all kids seem to have a California accent, but are otherwise mostly fluent.
<scymtym>
dnhester`: i started improving support for declarations in let-plus some years ago: https://github.com/scymtym/let-plus/commit/da65f6f42a70e85f4995a45ff94277fa0459c030 but as the commit message says, the the change did not address the issue of associating declarations with the correct binding form. today, i don't think improving let-plus is worth the effort
<ixelp>
Slightly improved support for declarations · scymtym/let-plus@da65f6f · GitHub
<green_>
phoe: thanks for the feedback on trivial-system-loader. My first attempt did something like what you suggested, but I got stuck on temporarily setting the values of ocicl-runtime:*download* , when ocicl-runtime may not be loaded. That's when I reverted to the #+ocicl feature test. How would I do that?
<dnhester`>
scymtym: ah ok. Why not? because it's better to just use the regular way instead of a shorthand macro? or because it's too difficult?
<scymtym>
dnhester: too much effort to make it work on a technical and semantic (e.g. canFOOrefer toBARand vice versa in((&labels foo ()) (&flet baz ()) (&labels bar ()))`) level. also, all the effort to establish a unified binding syntax will not transfer to places that use destructuring (such a macro lambda list) or loop destructuring
<scymtym>
sorry, parser got confused, but i guess the message is still understandable
<scymtym>
i think unified and extensible binding/pattern matching is another of those cases that would be better addressed in a new language
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<dnhester`>
scymtym: thanks
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