#commonlisp on 2024-03-26 — irc logs at libera.irclog.whitequark.org

2022-07-28 16:55 jackdaniel changed the topic of #commonlisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | Wiki: <https://www.cliki.net> | IRC Logs: <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23commonlisp> | Cookbook: <https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook> | Pastebin: <https://plaster.tymoon.eu/>

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00:09 <josrr> Kingsy: I know you ditched Jonathan, I just want to show you that the code in the documentation works https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/4205#4205

00:11 <Kingsy> haha then what the... ?

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00:16 <josrr> It seems that your %to-json method, it is not the same as jonathan:%to-json; most likely yours is defined in another package.

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05:20 <Bubblegumdrop> Kingsy I also ran into this problem (storing floating points in SQL db yields bizarre results), I used fixed point arithmetic http://paste.debian.net/hidden/d923ed5f/

05:20 <ixelp> Debian Pastezone

05:21 <Bubblegumdrop> I'm not sure about json

05:22 <Bubblegumdrop> Kingsy jonathan has built in to-json that seems to work?

05:22 <Bubblegumdrop> CL-TAGMAN> (jonathan:to-json (list :test 1.44d0))

05:22 <Bubblegumdrop> "{\"TEST\":1.44}"

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05:23 <beach> *sigh* Bubblegumdrop: You can't represent a decimal value with exactly two decimal digits exactly in Common Lisp, nor in most modern programming languages.

05:24 <gilberth> I doubt that this was assumed even.

05:25 <Bubblegumdrop> I was using this code specifically for "100 cents in a dollar" money arithmetic allowing for some inaccuracy e.g. always rounding from 0.001 to 0.00

05:25 <aeth> A JSON library could do it. That particular JSON library might not be able to. As I mentioned in #clschool you could do something like (/ (round (* (expt 10 2) 1.234)) (expt 10 2)) to produce a rational, but the JSON library would have to be able to accept a rational, which apparently that one does not, and it wouldn't round trip (back into a rational) without something fancy like a schema or something.

05:25 <beach> ... exactly as a floating-point value, I meant of course.

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05:25 <Bubblegumdrop> yes using exact floating points led to bizarre results

05:26 <Bubblegumdrop> like how (= 1.439999999..6 1.44) => T

05:26 <Bubblegumdrop> I was using SQLite as the backing SQL db and it only stores REAL floating points

05:26 <beach> Bubblegumdrop: What is an "exact floating point"?

05:26 <Bubblegumdrop> kind of like "do what I mean"

05:27 <gilberth> I just was a bit perplexed because that value printed when read as a single float would would be the same as single float 1.44. So I suspected coercion to single float in the library. I took that term "rounding error" used as a hint. And for all practical purposes you can assume that JSON uses double floats. At least I would expect that using the same library I don't loose bits when I write JSON and read it again.

05:27 <Bubblegumdrop> e.g. if I have 0.5 and 0.5 I expect 1.00 dollars, not 1.00000000000000000000007 dollars

05:27 <aeth> Bubblegumdrop: every finite representation of numbers will produce bizarre results sometimes, but you could e.g. use decimal floating point, too, not just fixed point (assuming it is in a certain range for a certain number of digits precision)

05:28 <Bubblegumdrop> This code allows for arbitrary "increments"

05:28 <aeth> rationals, however, aren't finite and so don't have this problem. But, well, you can easily have them grow grow grow into huge bignums over bignums

05:28 <aeth> (* OK, bignums are finite in practice, but just add more RAM and make the heap larger)

05:28 <Bubblegumdrop> I could probably add a class instead of +DIVISION-COUNTER+ being set to some specific value

05:28 <beach> Bubblegumdrop: That particular one will work, but there is no way you can add 0.35 and 0.65 and get 1 exactly.

05:29 <Bubblegumdrop> That's precicely the issue I encountered

05:29 <beach> Well, maybe this particular example works too, I didn't check.

05:29 <Bubblegumdrop> Yes, I can paste the test suite for this code if you like, it's pretty straightforward

05:29 <beach> Don't paste it for me.

05:30 <aeth> I've written my own (almost certainly not optimized) fixed point before, but it's... ugh. Particularly when you get to SIN, COS, TAN, EXP, EXPT, SQRT... I gave up there. Not like rationals will help there, either, though.

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08:12 * splittist wonders what to do about accommodation in Vienna with the venue still uncertain.

08:14 <Mondenkind> 10

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09:09 <splittist> Too late - decision made!

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10:34 <Shinmera> It should be close to the SBCL25 venue

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11:40 <scymtym> ::notify mivanchev in esrap rules, you can sometimes avoid :destructure + ignore like this (:destructure (one two three) (declare (ignore one three)) two) → (:function second) (:lambda (two) two) that is by "chaining" multiple rule options or even just (:function second) in this particular case which does not need a body

11:40 <Colleen> scymtym: Got it. I'll let mivanchev know as soon as possible.

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15:26 <didi> Can `coerce' be extended? For example, so I can use it to coerce a self defined class of sparse matrix into (array * (* *))?

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15:29 <bike> No.

15:30 <didi> Thanks.

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15:32 <yitzi> Extensible sequences might count as a small extension window?

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20:15 <Kingsy> Bubblegumdrop: yeah I went to jonathan and it worked just fine. but with help yesterday I was also able to make shasht work too

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20:26 <Kingsy> does anyone know if the loop macro has a continue? to just skip the curent loop iteration and continuewith the next one?

20:28 <bike> it does not, but you can use conditionals to accomplish the same thing

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20:29 <Kingsy> yeah true. but ugly though

20:31 <Kingsy> anyway yep. that works. I wonder if its better to use a different looping construct that has this. - if there are any

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20:39 <didi> Kingsy: I use recursion for this kind of thing.

20:39 <Kingsy> didi: ugh. hahaha recursion hurts my brain so I usually avoid it

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20:44 <didi> Kingsy: Interesting. Lisp is usually full of recursion.

20:44 <Kingsy> haha I mean its ok. I can read it. but I tend to just stay away from it when I write code. there is usually another way, albeit more verbose

20:45 <cdegroot> If recursion hurts your brain but LOOP does not.... there's brain research people that probably want a word with you ;-)

20:45 <Kingsy> lol!

20:45 <Kingsy> yeah tbh I don't really enjoy loop either.

20:48 <Kingsy> woudl you all recommend drakma for making HTTP requests in CL? or are there other choices that are nicer to use? for example I cant see a way of getting the status code from the response with drakma. no mention of it in the docs either. so just asking before I jump into the source.

20:49 <didi> You don't like `loop', you don't like recursion. You might get into trouble sometime.

20:49 <Kingsy> into trouble? :D

20:49 <didi> I mean, you do not enjoy some common constructions in lisp.

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20:50 <Kingsy> maybe I just need to get used to it!

20:50 <Kingsy> loop I mean

20:51 <didi> Do you like `do'?

20:52 <Kingsy> yeah thats much more familiar, i.e what I know as a for loop syntax or at least close.

20:53 <didi> Well, then there you go.

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20:53 <Kingsy> hah yeah!

21:10 <scymtym> Kingsy: the status code as an integer is the second return value of DRAKMA:HTTP-REQUEST. the documentation string explains all return values where it says "The function returns SEVEN values ..."

21:10 <Kingsy> just saw it yep. sorry I should have had a good read first.

21:10 <Kingsy> scymtym: thanks!

21:10 <scymtym> sure, no worries

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21:32 <aeth> Common Lisp and recursion has a complicated relationship. On the one hand, it's not guaranteed to do TCO so you can overflow the stack. On the other hand, LABELS is literally right there, just waiting for convenient recursion.

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21:51 <didi> LABELS ftw.

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