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<jack_rabbit>
Anyone know how to run sbcl --script but without disabling the debugger?
<jack_rabbit>
or, alternatively, to re-enable the debugger at runtime?
<bike>
as you can see in the manual, --script is just short for a bunch of other flags you can put together independently https://sbcl.org/manual/#Runtime-Options
<jack_rabbit>
ahh, I didn't see the manual there. The manpage just says that it *implies* those options, but doesn't say that's all it does.
<jack_rabbit>
bike, thanks
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<bike>
no problem
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<jack_rabbit>
weird... it looks like an executable lisp image from sbcl makes the standard-input into a synonym-stream, meaning fd-stream-fd no longer works on it.
<jack_rabbit>
Anyone know how I can recover the fd-stream from the synonym-stream, or construct a new fd-stream for stdin/stdout? I know this isn't particularly lispy, but I'm trying to bootstrap something.
<jack_rabbit>
I don't see anything obvious in the fd-stream description, nor the synonym-stream definition.
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<jack_rabbit>
ahh, fd-sys:make-fd-stream
<bike>
you can get the underlying stream with (symbol-value (synonym-stream-symbol whatever))
<jack_rabbit>
Ahh, I'll try that. I would much prefer that to creating a new fd-stream.
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<jack_rabbit>
aaaaaaand memory corruption.
<Bubblegumdrop>
Oh boy, video game stuff. jack_rabbit I would do a placeholder with defvar or defparameter then have a startup function fill it out at launch.
<Bubblegumdrop>
then free it at exit
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<jack_rabbit>
Well I tried even constructing a new fd-stream from file descriptor zero, and it still panics.
<jack_rabbit>
Not video game stuff, I'm implementing a posix shell
<ixelp>
GitHub - knusbaum/cl-tetris: Tetris game written in Common Lisp
<jack_rabbit>
(speaking of video game stuff)
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<Bubblegumdrop>
Nice
<jack_rabbit>
Is there an alternative method for generating an executable image than save-lisp-and-die? It seems like that does weird stuff to the state.
<jack_rabbit>
I don't mind other tradeoffs as long as everything I need is contained in one executable file.
<jack_rabbit>
Bubblegumdrop, your idea of a placeholder, what do you mean? Do you think this has something to do with my issue?
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<Bubblegumdrop>
Just a though, it seemed like maybe the thing you're looking for is only available while the image is loaded?
<Bubblegumdrop>
what you wrote reminded me of the video game hack I described where you have to use a bunch of placeholders
<Bubblegumdrop>
Like accessing fd0, it doesn't exist until the image is loaded? I'm not certain
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<paulapatience>
UIOP does some stuff when building a program
<paulapatience>
You can set build-op to program-op in the .asd file. (Or some similar symbol.)
<paulapatience>
It might help
<Bubblegumdrop>
Oh yes I do remember coming across that
<Bubblegumdrop>
for a cleaner solution to the "hack"
<jack_rabbit>
Debugging this, I'm starting to doubt it's actually an issue with the fd.
<jack_rabbit>
Yeah, it's not the fd that's causing the memory corruption. Excluding all my code, I'm able to reconstruct the stdin fd-stream and read from it.
<jack_rabbit>
So something else is breaking things.
<jack_rabbit>
But weirdly I don't get a stack trace. Maybe because the corruption detector doesn't know what caused the corruption, which would be fair.
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<zyd>
Did FORMAT come from a particular Lisp implementation before the standardization process? I'm curious where the idea of putting in looping constructs in format strings comes from because frankly its a weird idea.
<bike>
funnily enough, this is actually mentioned in the standard: 22.2.3 traces the pretty printer back to a paper titled "XP: A Common Lisp Pretty Printing System". i forget if it's format or just pprint-logical-block stuff though.
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<beach>
I don't think FORMAT is involved.
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<jack_rabbit>
I love that common lisp is actually a few languages (Re: format)
<bike>
hm, my bad then
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<aeth>
FORMAT is a bit too much, in that it has a few things that you basically never use
<beach>
aeth: You must have missed zyd's "minimalist rabbit hole" argument on #clschool.
<beach>
As long as additional functionality is not impacting the use of the functionality you actually use, there is no problem with additional functionality.
<aeth>
well, FORMAT does it at compile time so the worst case is that nobody uses it and so it sits buggy for when you actually want to use it
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<beach>
If it is buggy, it means it has not been sufficiently tested.
<aeth>
but some of the functionality is beyond useless (e.g. plurals! that's not internationalized! or the one where you can give it a function, but it doesn't accept / in the package names and ASDF really wants you to use / in the package names)
<aeth>
(22.3.5.4)
<aeth>
would be a bit more useful if it used the current package when no package is provided, but it uses COMMON-LISP-USER when no package is provided
<beach>
But that's a completely different argument. I agree that there is a lot of functionality in Common Lisp that is useless, but it doesn't hurt if you don't use it.
<zyd>
Maybe it hurts the compiler writers and I thank them for their sacrifice.
<beach>
zyd: I can confirm that! :)
<jack_rabbit>
zyd, do I know you?
<zyd>
I don't think so? confused by the question
<Bubblegumdrop>
chatter familiarity
<jack_rabbit>
zyd, sorry, I'm thinking of someone else with a similar nick.
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<edgar-rft>
aeth: it's called *ANSI* Common Lisp, so we cannot expect that it does anything but english right
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<splittist>
zyd: someone gave a lightning talk about the history of FORMAT at an ELS or similar. One in Paris, I think.
<elderK>
splittist: That sounds really interesting. Any chance there's like, a link of a recording? :D
<beach>
elderK: You would have to check the ELS website.
<splittist>
I certainly remember watching a recording at some point. It was ELS 2014.
<elderK>
Excellent! Thank you.
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<splittist>
elderK: If you do find the video, please let me know (:
<elderK>
I was hoping there was a channel for Lisp like C++ has with cppcon.
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<elderK>
beach: I've been continuing my Lisp studies over the past few weeks. Each weekend, I've basically just been working on the same thing, but from different directions. I've not kept anything I've written yet, mostly because I feel like I can do better, after each session.
<elderK>
Last weekend, man, it was a real blast. I was just writing some macros that wrapped some CFFI stuff. It was very fun. That and reimplementing once-only and taking a detour into some papers about quasiquote (Alan Bawden)
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<Bubblegumdrop>
okay so I'm at chapter 2 of PCL and I can already tell I missed out on a lot by not picking this book up earlier.
<Bubblegumdrop>
So far I'm impressed
<Bubblegumdrop>
Oh, we're talking about the history of format? I'm interested
<Bubblegumdrop>
Very cool links all around
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<zyd>
Bubblegumdrop: It's good though sometimes I feel PCL overloads the amount of small but technically correct details. It's nessecary and makes for a good reference to refer back to though when you do need it.
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<zyd>
Example of what I mean are the two chapters on pathnames. Hated those chapters but not because anything the author does wrong. It's just a lot and feels like a lot of drudgery lol.
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<zyd>
The examples of clisp bugs in pathnames are also outdated but doesn't matter too much I think.
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<Shinmera>
Yea I have very little clisp-specific code in pathname-utils
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* random-jellyfish
yells: "It's a cookbook!!! It's a cookbook!!!"
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