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<phantomics>
Does anyone know if there's a way to change cl-who's output properties for a single property of a tag? You can change its attribute-quoting behavior by changing *attribute-quote-char* but this isn't changable within the scope of an individual tag.
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<phantomics>
There doesn't seem to be a way to say "print this tag property perfectly verbatim" and for some web frameworks it's important to sometimes have that precise control, like for certain types of inline script
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<mfiano>
phantomics: I can't answer the question, but after reading Common Lisp Recipes, written by the author of cl-who, I noticed the recipe for HTML output mentioned other libraries, but not cl-who. When I asked them about it in email, they said that it has many shortcomings and can't recommend its use.
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<phantomics>
mfiano: I've heard that as well and looked into other tools, however the ones I've tried have had major problems compared with cl-who in practical terms, though they may have been better constructed
<phantomics>
For example, spinneret sharply limits the tags and properties you can use according to orthodox HTML standards and you have to write extension grammars to support specialized markups
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<phantomics>
A lot of client toolsets like Alpine.js depend on some specialized tags so this becomes a major hurdle. There may be something else out there that strikes a better balance
<mfiano>
I see. It's been some years since I did web stuff in CL, but ruricolist was very responsive in addressing problems with spinneret when I settled on that one, and they are still in communication with me through email.
<mfiano>
It looks like the cl-who repository is managed by stassats and company, and has only seen small changes in some years.
<mfiano>
You may have to learn how it works and make it better yourself.
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<phantomics>
mfiano: Makes sense, it may just be a matter of more work being done on the newer tools
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<Shinmera>
Hot take nobody asked for: I don't like any of the sexpr-html-generators. Clip's approach is much more ideal :)
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<phantomics>
Sexps are the most flexible way to generate *ML code given that Lisp is full of tools for working with them, a template language won't have the same level of access to macros and other features
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<phantomics>
For any tree-like data structure Lisp can't be beat, where it can come up short is in dealing with other types of data structures hence my implementing a specialized language for working with arrays
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<Bubblegumdrop>
phantomics perhaps use lexical let?
<Bubblegumdrop>
I'm a little rusty with CL-WHO but maybe something like (cl-who:html `(... ,(let ((*attribute-quote-char* 'something)) ...)) ?
<Bubblegumdrop>
In this way you would be able to change attribute quoting behavior per tag.
<Bubblegumdrop>
phantomics I agree with Shinmera though, sexpr-html-generator is messy. I ended up using Djula. I will have to look at Clip, thanks Shinmera.
<Shinmera>
Sure.
<Shinmera>
iirc djula is a string interpolator
<Shinmera>
clip is a dom-manipulator
<Bubblegumdrop>
I honsetly haven't looked at it much under the hood but I believe you're correct.
<Bubblegumdrop>
You can do some pretty ... scary things with it
<Shinmera>
right. clip is stricter, but less error prone
<Shinmera>
oh, well, I guess you can do that in clip too
<Shinmera>
I meant more you can't generate invalid markup
<Bubblegumdrop>
I actually *wanted* to be able to generate invalid markup. That's why I settled on Djula.
<Bubblegumdrop>
I would send the page through multiple passes and combine with HTMX in the browser.
<Bubblegumdrop>
Fun stuff @_@
<Shinmera>
phantomics: having proper syntax highlighting/editor support and being able to instantly preview the document in a browser without any processing is really nice imo.
<Shinmera>
clip documents *are* html documents, and they can be viewed in the browser without being processed at all
<Shinmera>
it's very handy for building up the page with its style and everything it needs first, and then adding in the templating logic
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<childlikempress>
idk clip, but the only html templating thing i like is my own
<childlikempress>
it's implemented as a set of reader macros that read to forms evaluating to a tree of standard objects
<childlikempress>
plus postprocessing stuff
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<lispmacs[work]>
If I have a slot called, say, YEAR, is there any reason not to use :YEAR for the initarg? An example on the Internet was using just YEAR for the initarg.
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<younder>
nop
<younder>
Call it whatever you want
<lispmacs[work]>
okay, thanks
<younder>
No worries
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<louis77>
Is there any advantage in acquiring the actual ANSI CL Standard as opposed to just referring to the HyperSpec or is it wasted money?
<mfiano>
The HyperSpec is based off of dpANS3 which is in the public domain
<louis77>
And dpANS3 is functionally equivalent to the latest ANSI release?
<mfiano>
The ANSI standard is a badly photocopied document that I've heard is barely legible
<mfiano>
If you dare pay for it
<mfiano>
There is no latest ANSI release. There is 1.
<mfiano>
dpANS3 is no different than final standard document.
<louis77>
There is INCITS 226-1994 R2004 and S2008
<mfiano>
226-1994 is the official ANSI standard
<louis77>
I wonder what that means, do they just rescan every 4 years with a higher DPI resolution? ;)