sorear changed the topic of #riscv to: RISC-V instruction set architecture | https://riscv.org | Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/riscv
X-Scale has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
wingsorc has joined #riscv
crabbedhaloablut has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
crabbedhaloablut has joined #riscv
cousteau has joined #riscv
jacklsw has joined #riscv
motherfsck has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
vagrantc has quit [Quit: leaving]
frkazoid333 has joined #riscv
Trifton has joined #riscv
Trifton has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
Trifton has joined #riscv
epony has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
epony has joined #riscv
X-Scale has joined #riscv
TempNick has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
X-Scale is now known as TempNick
peeps[zen] is now known as peepsalot
frkzoid has joined #riscv
cousteau has quit [Quit: ♫ I can't forget the day I shot that network down ♫]
frkazoid333 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
qwer has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
qwer has joined #riscv
motherfsck has joined #riscv
epony has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
epony has joined #riscv
Were-thekau is now known as octav1a
pjw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
arnd has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
pjw has joined #riscv
arnd has joined #riscv
smaeul has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
smaeul has joined #riscv
psydroid has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
ats has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
bjoto has joined #riscv
anotherNightmare has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
knolle has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
ats has joined #riscv
anotherNightmare has joined #riscv
knolle has joined #riscv
psydroid has joined #riscv
motherfsck has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
motherfsck has joined #riscv
prabhakarlad has quit [Quit: Client closed]
dor has joined #riscv
epony has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
epony has joined #riscv
Bluefoxicy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
Bluefoxicy has joined #riscv
anotherNightmare is now known as another
bauruine has joined #riscv
epony has quit [Quit: QUIT]
BootLayer has joined #riscv
dor has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
epony has joined #riscv
epony has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
epony has joined #riscv
motherfsck has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
MoeIcenowy has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
jellydonut has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
MoeIcenowy has joined #riscv
motherfsck has joined #riscv
loggervicky has joined #riscv
loggervicky has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
prabhakarlad has joined #riscv
jjido has joined #riscv
loggervicky has joined #riscv
loggervicky has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
bauruine has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
bauruine has joined #riscv
loggervicky has joined #riscv
JanC has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
JanC has joined #riscv
jjido has quit [Quit: My laptop has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
loggervicky has quit [Quit: loggervicky]
jacklsw has quit [Quit: Back to the real world]
jmdaemon has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
bjoto has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.6]
bjoto has joined #riscv
TempNick is now known as X-Scale
wingsorc has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
jjido has joined #riscv
rodrgz has joined #riscv
jjido has quit [Quit: My laptop has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
Trifton has quit [Quit: Error: no route to host]
bjoto has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
loggervicky has joined #riscv
bjoto has joined #riscv
aerkiaga has joined #riscv
balrog has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
BootLayer has quit [Quit: Leaving]
balrog has joined #riscv
prabhakarlad has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
prabhakarlad has joined #riscv
rneese has joined #riscv
rodrgz has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
rodrgz has joined #riscv
pedja has joined #riscv
motherfsck has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
loggervicky has quit [Quit: loggervicky]
motherfsck has joined #riscv
kanka has joined #riscv
<muurkha> speaking of "what are the benefits of an open architecture": https://www.ryzencpu.com/2022/10/arm-will-prohibit-proximity-of-its-cpu.html
kanka has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<muurkha> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33419138 "As others have pointed out Arm disputes these claims"
<pedja> didn't arm sue Qualcomm over licencing recently?
kanka has joined #riscv
<pedja> iirc, so qualcomm can't use IP from company they bought, which was also arm licensee?
<pabs3> yeah, thats derived from posts about the lawsuit
kanka has quit [Client Quit]
<muurkha> thanks
<rneese> arm is becoming a cluster f*ck
* pedja wonders what would nvidia do in that situation, if it ever managed to buy arm
<pedja> afaik, nvidia is using risc-v on their gpus already
paulk has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.0]
paulk has joined #riscv
<muurkha> hey, the WCH chip now has an English manual! https://github.com/openwch/ch32v003/blob/main/CH32V003RM-EN.pdf
paulk has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<mps> rneese: I read backlog and have question. do you have u-boot repo of your improvements for starfive boards
paulk has joined #riscv
<rneese> the one who did the changes was bables150
<rneese> and he only made the Uenx.txt to make the changes
<rneese> uEnv.txt
<rneese> other then that he did not change many things as far as i know
<mps> ah, ok. and thanks
<rneese> did you pll the file
<rneese> put it on a blank sd card boot
<rneese> wait 1 min pull and reboot
<rneese> and UUFI will be supported
<rneese> UEFI
<mps> which u-boot is used, or it stock one which comes with boards in flash
<mps> s/it/it is/
<rneese> its whats sstock as I recall
<rneese> I will check in a min
<rneese> let me grab board
<mps> no hurries
<rneese> U-Boot 2022.04-rc2-VisionFive (Mar 07 2022 - 21:12:22 +0800)StarFive
<rneese> riscv64-buildroot-linux-gnu-gcc.br_real (Buildroot SDK_v2.1.1) 10.2.0
<rneese> GNU ld (GNU Binutils) 2.34
<mps> I tested boot with uefi on visionfivev1 few months ago and it worked in first stage but didn't finish because grub in alpine linux have bug, and I didn't tried later
<mps> yes, I used this version
<rneese> I have not touched alpine
<mps> so I think I have to wait for next grub or try to patch it
<rneese> I have only used the ubuntu img we have as its wha I am working on
<rneese> if you run that file you should be able to run the ubuntu img
<rneese> and it should allow for others
<rneese> its just a uEnv update to enable
<mps> rneese: I wrote short guide how to install alpine on visionfivev1 here https://arvanta.net/alpine/alpine-on-visionfivev1/
<mps> I will try with your uEnv.txt
<rneese> is alpine debian based or other
<mps> and we have #alpine-riscv64 channel on oftc (low traffic) if someone wants to test alpine on riscv
<mps> no, alpine is 'clean room' distro, started from linux firewall
<rneese> ok
<rneese> thinking how we might get a img builder so you can have bootable .img files
<rneese> to make installs easier
<mps> when LEAF project stopped then alpine started
<rneese> ok
<rneese> moving over to talks better ten here
<mps> rneese: In my guide above is a script which creates bootable image
<rneese> ahh ok
<rneese> need to make it so you can dl a img
<rneese> lol
<mps> no
hb9fxx has joined #riscv
<mps> script is given for those who wants to make tweaks
freakazoid332 has joined #riscv
<rneese> ok
BootLayer has joined #riscv
frkazoid333 has joined #riscv
frkzoid has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<rneese> so its a minmal linux to start ok
freakazoid332 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<mps> yes, base is minimal, but there are a lot of packages to install (too much imo)
<rneese> well I was thinking a img with icewm in the future
<rneese> I will have to look at it
<rneese> putting minmal on sd card now
paulk has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
<mps> alpine iso images are minimal, user have to install rest
<mps> alpine is not intended for users who expect ready made big DE distros
paulk has joined #riscv
<mps> though we have them, KDE, Gnome ...
<pedja> alpine's musl(?) choice for libc is interesting
jacklsw has joined #riscv
<mps> pedja: yes, only musl is supported
<mps> and this is best part of alpine ;)
<pedja> heh. off-topic, but I am curious, just how much patching the applications that expect glibc is involved in alpine? rare or common-ish?
elastic_dog has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
elastic_dog has joined #riscv
<mps> well, some needs more but most don't need patches
<pedja> nice
<mps> upstream author are usually nice and accepts bug reports and patches and fix most of thing upstream
<unlord> hi
<mps> authors*
<unlord> can someone help me understand how to specify a masked load with RVV instructions?
<unlord> 02058087 vle8.vv1,(a1)
<unlord> I can get this to generate with as
<unlord> vle8.v v1, (a1), v0.t
<rneese> ok bbl off to dr appt
<rneese> have fun
<rneese> mps its booting
<rneese> so you going to build a uefi version next ?
radu24275 has joined #riscv
<mps> rneese: I will try, maybe this weekend if find free time
<muurkha> I just posted a comment on the orange website about tusko's question: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33421656
<muurkha> the "what is the value proposition of RISC-V" question. and also "what is going to happen"
<rneese> http://armbian.lane-fu.com/rneese/riscv/ is where my riscv imgs are
<rneese> on my phone
<rneese> vnc into my computer
<muurkha> you're serving boot images to the internet from your phone?
<muurkha> unlord: I don't have any experience with RVV, but maybe someone does
rodrgz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<rneese> no thats a server
<rneese> bbl heading onto freeway
rodrgz has joined #riscv
<muurkha> corrections to my comment would be welcome!
prabhakarlad has quit [Quit: Client closed]
deus_ex has joined #riscv
pedja has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
loggervicky has joined #riscv
prabhakarlad has joined #riscv
rodrgz has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.7.1]
justache is now known as justPardoned
<tusko> muurkha, I'm not sure I agree "most computer hardware has been designed and assembled in the PRC..."
<tusko> Maybe a certain category of computer hardware, but not the most cutting-edge chips
<tusko> They make like washing machine timers and calculators and tech from 20 years ago.
<tusko> PRC isn't producing chips to compete with Intel, Micron, AMD, Samsung, etc that I know of
<tusko> Even the US govt doesn't
jellydonut has joined #riscv
hb9fxx has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
BootLayer_ has joined #riscv
frkzoid has joined #riscv
Andre_H has joined #riscv
BootLayer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
frkazoid333 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
Snuupy has joined #riscv
<deus_ex> not of the lack of trying :) https://rhg.com/research/china-chips/
deus_ex is now known as pedja
<pedja> not for*
dor has joined #riscv
<muurkha> tusko: AMD can't produce any chips at all
<pedja> amd is doing fairly well, considering they have to 'compete' for tsmc time with deep-pocketed nvidia and apple
loggervicky has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
prabhakarlad has quit [Quit: Client closed]
<muurkha> but I did intentionally separate out design and assembly from fabrication in my remark, tusko ;)
jacklsw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<muurkha> PRC is in sort of the same position as AMD except that USG won't sanction AMD
Gravis has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Gravis has joined #riscv
<tusko> AMD are also mega social justice warriors
<tusko> ...like China
<conchuod> ?
<conchuod> What does that even mean lol
loggervicky has joined #riscv
<dh`> "china" and "social justice warrior" are ...interesting concepts to put together
<conchuod> And what makes AMD "social justice warriors"
<dh`> jrtc27: re pte use bits yesterday, I was forgetting that you'd need to sfence.vma after clearing them. but even with that, I think it still sucks
jrtc27 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<dh`> bah
EchelonX has joined #riscv
KombuchaKip has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
loggervicky has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
jrtc27 has joined #riscv
<dh`> jrtc27: re pte use bits yesterday, I was forgetting that you'd need to sfence.vma after clearing them. but even with that, I think it still sucks
<dh`> that is, without I was thinking you needed to snoop page table writes to know when you need to set the use bits again
<dh`> but with, if you sfence.vma on every pte you update as you're scanning, that's a lot of sfence.vmas and that probably itself sucks, plus each one causes the cpu to forget which entries it's marked so it ends up repeating a lot
<dh`> unless you do something like suspend all threads in a process when you go to scan its pagetables so you know they aren't getting used while you're working, and then sfence.vma once at the end; but that suspend is also expensive
<jrtc27> you can batch it up
<jrtc27> only need to sfence.vma at the end
<jrtc27> so long as you're careful
<jrtc27> you don't need to suspend the threads
balrog has quit [Quit: Bye]
<geist> that tracks. pretty similar to ARM64 and DSB
balrog has joined #riscv
<dh`> if you clear a bunch without fencing, they can be used without you ever seeing
<dh`> then again, that race exists if you do one at a time too, it's just smaller
<dh`> and missing a few isn't the end of the world in a normal vm system
<dh`> though it means you want to sample more often
<dh`> anyway, it still seems like the whole scheme is bad
prabhakarlad has joined #riscv
<dh`> and it takes up two PTE bits
gianluca has joined #riscv
jamtorus has joined #riscv
jellydonut has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<geist> in the case of ARM you can generally be fairly slack about it *until* you start fiddling with A and D bits. riscv may have the same race if/when that gets added (i forget the current status on those)
<geist> since you now have hardware fiddling with the same page tables out from underneath you (software) and everything is weakly ordered. the barriers suddenly get a lot more important and interesting
pecastro has joined #riscv
<muurkha> dh`: well, communism is nominally the ideological basis of the PRC government, and its purpose is to correct the injustices that capitalism inflicts upon the working class. but I think that's kind of theoretical; the Cultural Revolution is generally considered an unfortunate tragedy in Chinese history, not a laudable effort that just failed to go far enough
<muurkha> but I have very rarely found it valuable to talk to people who start talking about "social justice warriors"
jamtorus is now known as jellydonut
<dh`> indeed
<dh`> (on all points)
jjido has joined #riscv
erg_ has joined #riscv
dor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
jrtc27 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
Gravis has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
Gravis has joined #riscv
BootLayer_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
jrtc27 has joined #riscv
pecastro has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
jrtc27 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
pecastro has joined #riscv
quantum_ has joined #riscv
EchelonX has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
jjido has quit [Quit: My laptop has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
Narrat has joined #riscv
erg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<muurkha> this looks like an interesting approach: https://github.com/gsmecher/minimax
<muurkha> the native instruction set is mostly just RV32C plus a few uncompressed instructions, and the other instructions trap to microcode implementations
<muurkha> he says it's 61 flip-flops and 423 Xilinx LUTs, not counting the ROM, peripherals, and I'm guessing the registers
<muurkha> while SeRV is 312 FFs and 182 LUTs, without C
jrtc27 has joined #riscv
<muurkha> and if you enable C, SeRV grows to 336 LUTs
<muurkha> it's uh not very fast but faster than SeRV
<dh`> one of these days I should figure out how to write hardware, mucking with stuff like that for hack value seems like it would be fun
jamtorus has joined #riscv
jrtc27 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
jellydonut has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
jrtc27 has joined #riscv
Gravis has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
epony has quit [Quit: QUIT]
epony has joined #riscv
pecastro has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Andre_H has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
pecastro has joined #riscv
rneese has quit []
wingsorc has joined #riscv
wingsorc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<muurkha> I'm still a bit intimidated by Verilog myself, to be honest, dh`
Gravis has joined #riscv
Narrat has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.]
bjoto has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
bauruine has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<muurkha> in theory I understand the main ideas of digital hardware: for synchronous design you first reduce your design to a register machine (that is, with finite memory), describe the next state of each register as a pure (combinational) function of the current states of all registers (RTL), minimize the new-state function for each register according to whatever combinational logic elements you have handy (NAND
<muurkha> gates, LUTs, 2716s, sums of products, or whatever), wire up the hardware accordingly, and then spend hours with a logic probe or logic analyzer figuring out which nets have the wrong waveforms on them and why
<muurkha> after verifying your design in simulation, of course
<muurkha> but it's been decades since I built an interesting logic circuit in actual hardware
<bjdooks> my last VHDL was dealing with PCIe gen1
<muurkha> that sounds demanding on the speed side
<muurkha> what was the hardest part of getting it working?
dobson has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer]
<bjdooks> dealing with the verilog shite the vendor supplied
<bjdooks> the internal data-bus was 16bit, so supply 2.5Gbit/sec was a lot easier
<muurkha> with a purpose-built serdes built into an fpga I'm guessing?
<pedja> anyone played with that intel's risc-v simulator/dev thingie?
<pedja> d/l requires registration, which is...expected, I guess :)
<bjdooks> yes
<muurkha> I wouldn't say it's expected. I didn't have to register to download QEMU, Spike, or the RISC-V spec
<bjdooks> I've been doing a bit of work with qemu for various stuff
<pedja> expected from Intel bearing 'gifts', I meant
<bjdooks> hmm, registration remidns me to prod about riscv summit
<pedja> is that where the 'state of the risc-v ecosystem' talk is given?
<muurkha> bjdooks: so I guess if yosys had existed it would have made your life a lot easier except that it doesn't support Xilinx serdes (or officialy xilinx anything)
<bjdooks> yeah, proprietary fpga stuff is just nasty
<muurkha> this RV32C-plus-microcode approach seems pretty appealing to me
<muurkha> I guess you could probably implement a smaller set of instructions and still have it work with lower performance but at some point it will stop getting smaller if you include the microcode for the missing instructions in your cost metric (which the 61 FFs and 423 LUTs doesn't)
qwer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
jellydonut has joined #riscv
jamtorus has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
qwer has joined #riscv
wingsorc has joined #riscv
pedja has quit [Quit: Leaving]
dobson has joined #riscv
quantum_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
jmdaemon has joined #riscv
paulk has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
paulk has joined #riscv
jjido has joined #riscv
aerkiaga has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
pecastro has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
pecastro has joined #riscv
jrtc27 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
prabhakarlad has quit [Quit: Client closed]
X-Scale` has joined #riscv