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<solrize>
muurkha, i know stallman pretty well. he is sometimes clueless, and when he was younger he was prone to flipping his lid on certain provocations (i think less so now), but calling him vicious is ridiculous
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<jrtc27>
he's an ass and a creep who shouldn't be in a position of authority
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<muurkha>
solrize: aside from the creep question, he is often vicious to people, especially those closest to him; if you know him pretty well you've probably observed this in person from time to time
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<muurkha>
he's inflexible in a way that sometimes leads him to steamroller over whatever and whoever he perceives as being in his way, without any concern for the effect on them (until, sometimes, afterwards)
<muurkha>
sometimes people read that as extreme selfishness on his part, which I think is a mistake; it's not that he cares more about his own interests than other people's, quite the contrary
<muurkha>
but the result has been a decades-long trail of shattered friendships and intimate relationships, with dozens if not hundreds of people who will never forgive him for how he treated them
<muurkha>
as, again, you have probably observed
<solrize>
he'd go kind of apeshit sometimes. when he did it to me he apologized afterwards. i didn't take it personally
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<muurkha>
I think a lot of the "creep" thing comes from being so bad at social interaction that he always makes everybody else uncomfortable all the time, which a lot of us have less extreme forms of
<jrtc27>
"vicious is ridiculous" ... "he'd go kind of apeshit sometimes" ... uhh
<muurkha>
so even though I see that it's preetty destructive, I can kind of forgive it
<muurkha>
(admittedly, maybe in part because I was never the one he was ineptly hitting on)
<muurkha>
but there are also a lot of harmful decisions he's made after careful consideration that go beyond the occasional apeshit thing
<muurkha>
some of them with the specific intention to harm specific other people
<muurkha>
maybe "intention" is overselling it. with specific indifference to harming specific other people
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<muurkha>
I think the occasional apeshit thing is just autistic meltdowns. like one time I remember I was suffering extreme sensory overload in a crowded room and was desperate to get out, and I ended up shoving some people on the way out. and a lot of autistic people have that with not just sensory overload but also situations that have become very unpredictable, like when travel plans have a screwup and you
<muurkha>
suddenly don't know where you're sleeping that night
<muurkha>
and I agree that it's not something to take personally (but it is also sometimes pretty damaging)
<conchuod>
>he'd go kind of apeshit sometimes. when he did it to me he apologized afterwards
<conchuod>
lol, apology or not that is unacceptable /shrug
<dh`>
being a pest by hitting on people at cons enough to be a well-known hazard is not on either
<dh`>
(possibly beyond "pest" too, not sure)
<muurkha>
he seems to have reliably stuck to "pest"
<muurkha>
the worst allegation I've seen is that he told a woman (at MIT) that he'd kill himself if she didn't go out with him
<muurkha>
along those lines
<muurkha>
according to the story she decided that would be fine with her
<muurkha>
so she didn't
<vagrantc>
so ... curious why this is on topic for #riscv ... maybe i missed something
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<dh`>
digression from a discussion a day or two ago about linux community dysfunction, which was a side point arising from discussing linux libc
<muurkha>
probably because there are a lot of people who know him here, but the conversation started with
<dh`>
it is not on topic, but it's not like anyone's saying anything else
<muurkha>
23:29 < dh`> that is, the way glibc was maintained and the fact that a person with the ... leadership skills he had was able to be in
<muurkha>
charge of it for years reflect fundamental problems in the linux community
<muurkha>
23:29 < dh`> (most of which I think has not changed, in fact)
<muurkha>
23:29 < dh`> (but I haven't been present in ages so IDK)
<muurkha>
23:59 < muurkha> dh`: Stallman has his merits but he has never been a kind man; he has often been vicious, and I think that shaped the
<muurkha>
free software movement
<dh`>
I wasn't referring to stallman at all when I said that
<vagrantc>
sure, a little off-topic now and then is fine ... it's just this particular topic could go off the rails pretty easily
<vagrantc>
so consider this a plea to leave it at that :)
<muurkha>
yeah, sorry, I'll leave it at that
<muurkha>
I probably shouldn't have brought it up in public
<la_mettrie>
is risc-v (or open processor architectures in general) relevant from FSF's point of view?
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<muurkha>
I haven't seen them talk much about it, except to point out that free *hardware* is not a very practical concern until we have a practical way to duplicate hardware freely
<muurkha>
FPGAs are starting to get to the point where "free gateware" (open cores, you might say) is a practical end-user concern
<muurkha>
and bunnie has been exploring how we could use FPGAs to be resistant to hardware backdoors — a concern that very much depends on free gateware
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