klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
thinkpol has quit [*.net *.split]
V has quit [*.net *.split]
kanzure has quit [*.net *.split]
TheCatCollective has quit [*.net *.split]
V has joined #osdev
phr3ak has joined #osdev
TheCatCollective has joined #osdev
Burgundy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
kanzure has joined #osdev
qbasiq has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
qbasiq has joined #osdev
gog has joined #osdev
<zid> gog sleeps fast
<gog> mew
<zid> usb-gog fast charging
<gog> I'm on because there's a channel I want to monitor for the moment just in case I need to do anything
<zid> gog secretly fbi
<gog> female body inspector?
<zid> I said secretly
<gog> oh
<gog> yeah I'm pretty loudly gay
Arthuria has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
x8dcc has left #osdev [ERC 5.4 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 28.2)]
eck has quit [Quit: PIRCH98:WIN 95/98/WIN NT:1.0 (build]
eck has joined #osdev
qbasiq has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
qbasiq has joined #osdev
<zid> gah that was an evil crossword clue
<zid> 'local number' anaesthetic
<heat> why are you loud gog
<heat> we're in a library
lg has joined #osdev
<zid> heat shh this is a monastary
heat has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
tixlegeek has quit [Quit: tixlegeek]
qbasiq has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
netbsduser has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
meisaka has quit [Server closed connection]
meisaka has joined #osdev
goliath has quit [Quit: SIGSEGV]
fkrauthan has quit [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in]
fkrauthan has joined #osdev
[itchyjunk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Matt|home has joined #osdev
orccoin has joined #osdev
orccoin has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
_whitelogger has joined #osdev
gorgonical has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
agent314 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
agent314 has joined #osdev
leon_ is now known as leon
childlikempress has quit [Server closed connection]
moon-child has joined #osdev
agent314 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
gxt has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
gxt has joined #osdev
Hammdist has joined #osdev
<Hammdist> on arm64, is CNTPCT counting at the same rate irrespective of cpu frequency scaling and/or wfi state?
<Hammdist> also regarding `The syscounter increments at a fixed frequency, with architecturally supported ranges being from 1-50 MHz.` it seems to me that 1MHz might be a bit low
<Hammdist> does this mean any implementation of gettimeofday() or similar is not necessarily going to have better than microsecond precision?
GeDaMo has joined #osdev
xenos1984 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
xenos1984 has joined #osdev
bombuzal has quit [Quit: b0rk]
zarock has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
pieguy128 has quit [Server closed connection]
pieguy128 has joined #osdev
Left_Turn has joined #osdev
troseman has quit [Quit: troseman]
gog` has joined #osdev
elastic_dog has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
antranigv has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
antranigv has joined #osdev
zarock has joined #osdev
netbsduser has joined #osdev
<geist> Hammdist: basically yeah, unless the OS decides to use another timer
<geist> i think the lowest i've personally seen is something like 12Mhz. usually the soc just runs the timer off the raw oscillator so it always ticks at the same raw
<geist> rate
Burgundy has joined #osdev
<geist> so somethig like 12, or 19.2 or 25 or whatnot
<geist> which are standard oscillator frequencies
Left_Turn has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<Hammdist> ah hm ok. I guess I don't really need more resolution than 12mhz or so
xenos1984 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Left_Turn has joined #osdev
xenos1984 has joined #osdev
elastic_dog has joined #osdev
tixlegeek has joined #osdev
stolen has joined #osdev
terminalpusher has joined #osdev
netbsduser has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
DanielNechtan has joined #osdev
Patater- has quit [Server closed connection]
DrPatater has joined #osdev
goliath has joined #osdev
zhiayang has quit [Quit: oof.]
[itchyjunk] has joined #osdev
zhiayang has joined #osdev
zhiayang has quit [Client Quit]
zhiayang has joined #osdev
zhiayang has quit [Client Quit]
zhiayang has joined #osdev
zhiayang has quit [Quit: oof.]
zhiayang has joined #osdev
joe9 has quit [Quit: leaving]
zhiayang has quit [Quit: oof.]
<gog`> hi
zxrom has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
<sham1> Hi gog with a backtick
<gog`> :o
<gog`> i do have a backtick
<gog`> gog:
<gog`> hmm
<kazinsal> hmm
<ChavGPT> what's utf8 for backflip
gog has quit [Quit: byee]
zhiayang has joined #osdev
gog` is now known as gog
<nortti> https://esolangs.org/wiki/BackFlip looks to only use ascii characters
<bslsk05> ​esolangs.org: BackFlip - Esolang
heat has joined #osdev
<sham1> Of course that's a thing
<kazinsal> need the utf8 for yelling at miss gog more like
<sham1> No yell at gog
<gog> :<
<gog> please do not the gog
<heat> shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
* kazinsal hugs gog
<heat> did you miss we're in a library?
* gog prr
<kazinsal> yesss
<kazinsal> good girl
<sham1> A library‽
<heat> yes
<kazinsal> more like a nunnery
<kazinsal> in the elizabethan poetic sense if you know what I mean hur hur hur
<gog> you mean where lesbians go
<heat> that would be lesbos
<kazinsal> guess that disqualifies me
<kazinsal> back to searching asmr on twitch I go
<kazinsal> trip report: ladies in rubix cube bikinis licking ears on a stick, but sadly no gog
<FireFly> o.o
<nortti> ah yes, time to check back on #osdev, I'm sure they're having completely normal conversations over there
<kazinsal> #osdev 2023: post-post-irony reigns
<zid> lesbos is where greeks go
<zid> oh this is one of ais's langs
<FireFly> which one?
<FireFly> oh
<FireFly> backflip
<zid> greek.
<zid> ais523 invented greek
<FireFly> ah of course
<sham1> I went to the store to get some stuff and after paying with my phone I see whatever the hell kazinsal just sent
<heat> linux kernal linux kernal
qbasiq has joined #osdev
<heat> programmmmmmm
<sham1> When did we allow cringe
<kazinsal> I live to (dis)serve
<heat> heat for OP 2023 and I will ban cringe
<kazinsal> I've been around here including the freenode era so long I transcend cringe
<gog> i'm the antithesis, i'm distilled cringe
<Ermine> hi gog, may I pet you
<gog> twes
<gog> yes
* Ermine pets gog
* gog prr
<FireFly> meow
<sham1> mow
<sham1> You can spin the word around the o and it'll be identical
<FireFly> ah yes, an ambigram
zxrom has joined #osdev
joe9 has joined #osdev
flom84 has joined #osdev
<gog> i'm develop operating system
<gog> how kenral work+
flom84 has quit [Client Quit]
<heat> i do
<heat> it do*
<heat> sometimes
<sham1> web kernel
netbsduser has joined #osdev
acidx_ has quit [Server closed connection]
acidx has joined #osdev
<gog> yes
warlock has joined #osdev
<mcrod> hi
<mcrod> gog may I pet you
<gog> yes
netbsduser has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
heat has quit [Quit: Client closed]
heat has joined #osdev
stolen has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
elastic_dog has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
elastic_dog has joined #osdev
troseman has joined #osdev
wblue has joined #osdev
wblue has quit [Client Quit]
flom84 has joined #osdev
flom84 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
stolen has joined #osdev
nj0rd has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
netbsduser has joined #osdev
phoooo has joined #osdev
phoooo has quit [Client Quit]
tixlegeek has quit [Quit: tixlegeek]
heat has quit [Quit: Client closed]
heat has joined #osdev
terminalpusher has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Turn_Left has joined #osdev
Left_Turn has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
terminalpusher has joined #osdev
nj0rd has joined #osdev
netbsduser has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
eddof13 has joined #osdev
<sham1> Poggers!
* mcrod pets gog almost 2 hours later
eddof13 has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<GeDaMo> It's warm today :|
<GeDaMo> I think this might be the warmest day of the summer even though it's technically Autumn
<gog> not technically yet
<gog> there are still three weeks of solar summer
<sham1> Technically it is autumn as far as the calendar is concerned
<gog> but the quality of the daylight here has taken a distinctly autumnal calendar
<gog> i prefer my technicality
<sham1> September is the first of the three autumnal months
<gog> character*
<gog> not calendar
<GeDaMo> Astronomical season: 21 June – 23 September
<GeDaMo> Meteorological season: 1 June – 31 August
<GeDaMo> Solar (Celtic) season: 1 May – 31 July
<GeDaMo> Anyway, I now have a block of ice wrapped in a wet towel on the back of my neck :P
xenos1984 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
xenos1984 has joined #osdev
<gog> oh
<gog> meterological ok
<gog> i'm a sun worshipper tho
<ChavGPT> do you know what Polaris is gog
<gog> yeah they make snowmobiles and atvs
<ChavGPT> it is a solaris port to powerpc
<ChavGPT> for realzies
<ChavGPT> it is unfinished though
<gog> oh
<ChavGPT> so one sun guy did it back in the day
<ChavGPT> on his ppc laptop
<ChavGPT> the laptop supposedly got stolen
<ChavGPT> and cantrill himself referred to it as the most useless laptop on the planet
<gog> hhhhhhh
<gog> i hope my laptop gets stolen
<stolen> i'm here
gog has quit [Quit: byee]
<ChavGPT> is your nickname.. stolen?
<ChavGPT> :rimshot:
<stolen> yeah it was stolen. I was puilseaudio
benlyn has joined #osdev
<stolen> *pulseaudio
gog has joined #osdev
kitty6 has joined #osdev
<kitty6> Hi
<GeDaMo> Hi kitty6 :)
<kitty6> Hi GeDaMo
kitty6 has quit [Quit: Client closed]
<ChavGPT> EY
kitty6 has joined #osdev
xenos1984 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
qbasiq has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
<stolen> is 64 bit i.e ExaBytes not addreesable ?
<stolen> do we use a 48 bit address implementation for some reason ?
<GeDaMo> "The x86-64 architecture (as of 2016) allows 48 bits for virtual memory and, for any given processor, up to 52 bits for physical memory." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit_computing
mctpyt has joined #osdev
mctpyt has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
netbsduser has joined #osdev
zxrom has quit [Quit: Leaving]
xenos1984 has joined #osdev
eddof13 has joined #osdev
kitty6 has quit [Quit: Client closed]
<gog> the reason is less electronics
<gog> and the design is such that there are two evenly-split halves of address space
<gog> intel has 5-level page tables, i think it does 57 bits of virtual space now?
<gog> this was to retain compatibility with PAE paging structures
troseman has quit [Quit: troseman]
<GeDaMo> Wires. Lots of wires :|
<gog> so many wires
<gog> it's frankly an absurd amount of wires
<stolen> why wires ?
<gog> traces in the motherboard
<GeDaMo> Address lines
<gog> yes
<gog> and specifically how they fan out on the motherboard
<gog> mmm more address lines, mmm more coper, mmm more coper, mmm more money
<qookie> don't forget the traces on top of the silicon layer :^)
<gog> yes that too
<stolen> so what's the addressable memory range then starting from 0 ?
<gog> for 48 bit paging it's 0-7fff ffff ffff
<gog> then ffff 8000 0000 0000
<gog> to top
<gog> everything in 8000 0000 0000 to ffff 7fff ffff ffff is not addredsible and attempting to access it wiill #GP
<stolen> how can I know if I have software RAID on a single hard disk ?
<zid> you don't have to, the bios doing the fakeraid will change what the disk interrupt calls do
<zid> and then intel iastor takes over later on
<stolen> but I need to know the RAID level for my computer assignment
<stolen> raid level for the software raid
<zid> Then you need to tell us all the information you ignored to get you to that question without having the ability to know the answer :P
<stolen> okay like what info do you need ?
<zid> You missed the vital point
kitty6 has joined #osdev
<zid> If you were capable of telling me all the information such that I could answer the question, you could answer it too
<stolen> ooh !
<stolen> though PCH clearly states : RAID not supported
<stolen> dunno about software raid though
<kitty6> Do parity bit still used in modern data communication?
<zid> software raid is two things, real software raid a la `md`, and bios fakeraid, it sounds you mean the latter?
<stolen> yeah
<stolen> fakeraid
<zid> That's entirely controlled by the bios
<zid> how it's configured, how it's implemented, etc
<zid> is *entirely* bios vendor specific
<stolen> I have an ASUS BIOS
<zid> if you're expected to be able to answer questions about a specific implementation, you presumably have information *about* a specific implementation
<stolen> do they have specific levels like real raid ?
<zid> <zid> is *entirely* bios vendor specific
<zid> I have never used asus bios raid
<zid> asus's website would be your best bet
eddof13 has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
elastic_dog has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
elastic_dog has joined #osdev
<Ermine> Whew, finished cleaning my flat
<Ermine> My spine hurts
kitty6 has quit [Quit: Client closed]
<zid> Ermine: have you considered not having one?
Arthuria has joined #osdev
<zid> There's a great deal on carcinization this week
kitty6 has joined #osdev
kitty73 has joined #osdev
kitty6 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
kitty73 has quit [Quit: Client closed]
tixlegeek has joined #osdev
GeDaMo has quit [Quit: That's it, you people have stood in my way long enough! I'm going to clown college!]
CaCode has joined #osdev
blockhead has joined #osdev
zxrom has joined #osdev
<sham1> What should they not have, a spine or a flat
<geist> oh yeah, totally. highly recommend one of those lifting belts you strap around your lower back
<geist> surprising they work as well, but damn they do if you're moving stuff around
<gog> hi
<gog> i'm an invertibrate
<geist> heya goggy
* gog flips a bagel to geist
<geist> ooooh, i like bagels
<gog> :D
<geist> salmon spread on a bagel is goooood
<gog> i'm the bagel babe
<geist> walking down the aisle, flipping bagels at everyone
<gog> yes
<gog> who's tripping down the streets of her city, flipping a bagel at everybody she meets
<gog> everyone knows it's goggy
<zid> that spider spooped me, thought it was a rat it was huge
<gog> arachnid friend
<zid> rats not friends though
<gog> eh depends
<zid> friend-rats are friends
<zid> rats are not friends
<gog> ok
<gog> although if i saw a rat i'd be like awwww
<zid> in your bedroom, out of the corner if your eye?
<gog> well maybe not
<zid> wild rats are pee
terminalpusher has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<zid> Okay he's made himself home on the ceiling
<zid> defo not a rat
<zid> I put him outside
<geist> yeah i'm starting to see some spiders outside, i think spider season is starting
<zid> he'll be hunting for a lady spider
<zid> this time of year
<geist> this time of year i'll start randomly seeing these little black wolf spiders all over the house as they come out looking for a girlfriend
<sham1> aaaaaaaaa
<sham1> Or let it out
<zid> Let it out with fire?
<sham1> I suppose the latter is better
<geist> yah fire tends to burn the house down
<geist> i usually take them to the garage, since they can still continue to live (outside probably kills them) and they have plenty of bugs to eat
<zid> this one certainly came from outside, despite being a 'house spider'
<zid> I'm in a sealed concrete cube, with a window
<geist> these wolf spiders apparently live inside all year but they basically are experts at staying hidden until they need a woman
<zid> There's some nice wolf spiders in the garden
<zid> my boy could have even been one
<zid> I didn't get close enough to look at the eye layout
<gog> i leave them
<zid> he was unlikely to enjoy living in here
<gog> unless my kid is here in which case i put them outside
<gog> because if she sees a spider she will freak tf out
<zid> what about the spiders?
<gog> hhh
<geist> mind you i dont *like* spiders in particular, but i really try to avoid hurting things if i can avoid it
<geist> unless it's something like a black widow or a brown recluse, but we dont really have them up here in PNW
<gog> yet
<geist> when i lived in california i used to find black widows quite a bit
<geist> and those i did dispatch
<zid> damn I can't find the meme :(
* gog laughs in climate changey
<gog> yeah anything that's aggressive and can leave a nasty or possibly lethal wound
<geist> indeed
<zid> It was like, "honey, the kid's sausages have gone off" "Throw them out then!" Then it cuts to the husband tossing the kids out the front door
<geist> okay, got a free day of hackery ahead of me. think i'll fiddle with the vax again
<heat> do you keep your spiders near the vax?
<heat> or just near the sparc
<zid> (Vax is a popular brand of vacuum cleaners here, I wonder if the trademark is the same one, passed along during various mergers)
<geist> heat: well, teeeeeechnically they're right next to each other, on the floor in the corner
<geist> so probably a spider living inside or around
<heat> do the spiders make fun of slowlarizzzz too?
<geist> haven't run solaris in a while, i generally end up with an old netbsd on these machines
<geist> something era appropriate, so it runs reasonably well
<zid> is it still booting up
<geist> like netbsd 3.x or so
<zid> lol classic solaris slow joke, highfive
<geist> nah, an old version of netbsd boots perfectly fine
<geist> also this sparcstation i have is quite beefy, dual 85Mhz supersparcs + 192MB ram
<heat> does solaris scale to 8 legs?
<zid> Did you all see the second world passing overhead very close the other day?
<zid> The one that makes the oceans flood the lands a couple times a day
<geist> alas it was cloudy but it looked nice last night
<geist> smewhere i have solaris 7 and 8 install media
<geist> 7 i got from someone and 8 came with the blade 100 when i bought it
<dh`> do you need a hazmat team to attend to them? :-)
<geist> iirc they're a little wonky, they have like 512 byte sectors for the cdrom, which iirc not all cdroms support
<zid> non-redbook? dang
<geist> that or that's optional redbook or something
<zid> I'm surprised *anything* can read it
<geist> well, technically only sun cdroms need to read it
<zid> microsoft did something similar with their install media to stop people copying them
<zid> they formatted the floppy disks in the factory in a weird way
<zid> disk 1 was normal, the rest required the installer to use floppy commands directly for them to work right, afaik
<geist> yah i think they fit like 1.7MB of data in them too
<zid> yea
<geist> some nonstadnard format, more sectors iirc
stolen has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<dh`> amiga floppies are the best, only amiga floppy drives can read them
<sham1> Some wild geometry going on with those
<geist> if you did say variable sector numbers based on the track you could definitely cram a lot more in
<geist> constant density, etc
<dh`> that is what they do, afaicr, but it's been a long time
<zid> CLV vs CAV, FIGHT
<geist> yah would have been hard at the time, but with a modern controller it'd be a cinch
<gog> zone bits
<geist> i also remember when cdrom drives started doing CAV, suddenly they weren't spinning up and down as you seeked
<geist> very early ones did, and it made seeking even that much slower
netbsduser has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
netbsduser has joined #osdev
goliath has quit [Quit: SIGSEGV]
heat has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Turn_Left has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<kazinsal> microsoft's weird floppy format was 21 spt instead of 18 spt, yeah
<kazinsal> both a fairly useful anti-piracy mechanism and also saves a few bucks on floppies when you have a two digit number of them in the box
<clever> some c64 floppies did the same, and you needed to upgrade the ram in the floppy drive to copy such disks
<zid> don't copy that floppy
zxrom has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<clever> in the c64 case, the floppy controller cpu simply isnt fast enough to react to the end of a sector, and switch to writing, and pack sectors that densly
<clever> so the only way to write that many sectors per track, is to write the entire track in one shot
<clever> and then you need enough ram for a full track
<clever> x86 floppy controllers dont really have that issue?
<Cindy> damn i don't have enough ram in my floppy drive to copy a floppy
<clever> c64 is a weird case, where the floppy controller and whole damn filesystem, is managed by a second cpu in the floppy drive
<clever> and a serial link connects it back to the PC
<Cindy> i wanted to ask, has anyone used talloc?
<Cindy> i mean, other than mpv developers
gog` has joined #osdev
gog has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<geist> well, also they had various amount sof interleave so the cpu could respond
<geist> 2:1, 3:1, etc
<geist> at the expense of the sectors coming in out of order
orccoin has joined #osdev
<gog`> hi
<clever> oh yeah, interleaving is to help reading, you read sector 1, process, and by the time you ask for 2, the head is at 2
<clever> and other sectors are between 1&2
<clever> centurion did this at the FS level, the file would be at blocks 0, 5, 10, ... for ex
<clever> while i think x86 floppy does it at the low-level soft-sector headers, and its decided at format time?
alexander has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1 - https://znc.in]
Burgundy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<zid> drum memory baby
alexander has joined #osdev
<gog`> meow
<zid> drum gog baby
<gog`> lewd
<zid> gog gog baby
<zid> all right stop, collaborate and listen
<gog`> stop, collaborate
<zid> gog is back with a brand new invention
<gog`> damn jt
gog` is now known as gog