klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<moon-child> gog: rm -rf * 4head
* kof13 checks manual "I say, thou seest not this head of the Crow, the black of the blackest black, thou must begin again, for this fault is irreperable, and not to be amended"
<kof13> problem is it is half-rotted, half rotten code mixed with live code. if it was 100% rotted, it would have a nice stable base atop of dead hardware (not a moving target)
<kof13> rot or rot not, there is no half-rot
<kof13> </yoda>
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<gog> you've never seen the codebase shape and maintain
<gog> i shape
<gog> software is more like teeth
<gog> some might be obviously bad
<zid> highspeed whirring inc
<gog> some might look good but hide a deep cavity and be about to crack
<zid> My cat has done an absolutely tremendous shit and the entire house stinks.
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<gog> go scoop it and bag it and put it outside then
<zid> I'm not sure I'd catch her.
<gog> i meant the poo
<zid> I don't think you understand just how much it smells, it's tangiable.
<gog> your cat doesn't want to be living in a shit-smelling house anymore than you do
<gog> there's a solution
<zid> if she really thought that she'd have buried it
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<gog> ohhh
<gog> well that's an attack on you
<zid> she's just not very good at it :/
<zid> she often digs but completely misses it
<gog> aw
<zid> "I do the poo, then I dig" she hasn't got the "I dig to cover it" aspect
<zid> litter all over the floor == litter all over the poop
<zid> JOB DONE, 100% SUCCESS.
<gog> good kitty
<Cindy> can i meow for compliements
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<gog> yes
<gog> you're a good kitty too
<zid> does my allocator kind of sorta work with huge drawbacks, yet?
<zid> (That's the quality level I am looking for)
<gog> oh i'm sorry i started playing factorio instead
<zid> understandable
<zid> I have a 120mm PC fan connected to a random 10V transformer I found for a dead phone or router or something
<zid> sucking in outside fresh air
<zid> breathing through nose again unlocked
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<gorgonical> what a world that we live in
<gorgonical> where peanut butter exists
<gorgonical> ambrosia indeed
<zid> it's okay
<zid> americans, clapping and peanut butter
<gorgonical> clapping i'll grant you, but i would expire if i went more than a year without peanut butter
<zid> how is that a disagreement!?
<zid> there's no universe in which that's a "but"
<zid> I think you mean "Incredibly sharp observation, I would infact, give up on life if not for peanut butter"
<gorgonical> I wouldn't give up
<gorgonical> My body would give out
<zid> That's.. you
<gorgonical> Like a car without gas
<zid> unless someone else is piloting your body these days?
<zid> do you have some kind of dysmorphia where you don't think your body is part of you? oh no
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<gorgonical> who's that mascot that's a peanut
<gorgonical> he's the one driving these days
<kof13> i think it is just mr. planters peanut, but he may be a resurrected form of monopoly man, or a cousin
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<gorgonical> zid: have you ever had dandan noodles? it's a sichuan dish
<gorgonical> in china it's made with sesame paste but of course here in america i see it as often made with peanut butter
<kof13> this i agree with, delicious szechuan zone must stay neutral in case of any way, lest heavenly food be lost
<kof13> *war
<zid> no
<zid> I might go make noodles though
<sham1> What a morning to wake up to and to see that Itanium support was removed from Linux. RIP
<gorgonical> i made pad thai this evening, without peanut butter
<gorgonical> so that wasn't very american of me
<zid> failed as an american then
<zid> sham1: was it merged?
<zid> It was still being debated this morning
<sham1> oh
<sham1> Must have misread
<zid> just because someone drops a patch doesn't mean it gets merged, it's an RFC
<zid> request for comments
<sham1> Sure, but I'm still in shock
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<zid> A small convo happened about how hard ia64 was to maintain
<zid> the concensus was "not much, mm code has to care a little about it"
<zid> so it seems mostly like a "meh" result
<zid> if it rots farther it will definitely go, but rn it looks like nobody cares *enough* about either side, removing it OR maintaining it for a clear answer
<gorgonical> in dutch it's called pindakaas because the dairy lobby was very upset about the idea of it being called peanut "butter" and so it's called peanut cheese instead
<gorgonical> which is a decidedly worse name
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<zid> k I am back, avec noogle
<zid> recipe: fry some finely chopped onion and garlic in soy sauce + oil + chilli powder while boiling noogle, add noogle to frying pan, stir, tip into bowl
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<gorgonical> I have a hypothesis that the number of kinds of cheeses you have in your fridge at any one time is directly related to your happiness
<zid> poshness*
<zid> Does two types of cheddar count as two or one, btw?
<gorgonical> two
<gorgonical> Would they be placed together on a cheeseboard is the test
<zid> cheese is fucking expensive, it used to be the most shoplifted thing in supermarkets
<gorgonical> just british things
<zid> we weren't so broke that it was baby formula
<zid> and meat is too bulky
<zid> so it was cheese
<zid> good cost/volume ratio
<gorgonical> and transportable
<gorgonical> chuck several blocks of parm into the bag and you can make cacio e pepe for weeks
<zid> parmesan comes in BLOCKS!?
<gorgonical> ???
<gorgonical> yes
<zid> how do they deliver that, solid gold ferrari?
<gorgonical> like wedges from a wheel
<gorgonical> well it isn't real parm
<gorgonical> we have wisconsin to stand in for italy here
<zid> (£25/kg in the supermarket, so it's probably crap parmesan too)
<gorgonical> holy shit lol
<gorgonical> the parm i buy is like $8/lb and it's fine to me
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<zid> It's not parmesan unless it comes from italy, what you've got is sparkling milk product.
<gorgonical> have you ever had that cheese with the mites on it
<gorgonical> mimolette?
<zid> no I only go for the one with maggots ofc
<zid> no ofc I fucking haven't, you sick bastard
<gorgonical> lol
<zid> I've had plain cheddar, and extra plain cheddar
<zid> and whatever the plastic is they put on takeaway pizza
<zid> love that shit
<gorgonical> that phrasing makes me imagine that it has like american cheese slices placed upon it, like a horrid margherita pizza
<zid> oh god no
<zid> american cheese is not rubbery at all
<gorgonical> anti-rubbery even
<zid> In pizza adverts they use pva glue
<zid> to simulate hot cheese
<zid> Reconditioned polyvinyl rubber with dying agents ^
<zid> It's way better than actual cheese
<zid> actual cheese just splits
<gorgonical> why is this allowed
<zid> why is what allowed
<gorgonical> food advertising with not food
<zid> no idea
<zid> A lot of it just straight CGI these days, but there used to be sick high speed camera labs
<zid> that'd launch strawberries at milk and stuff
<gorgonical> I mean how is it any different from a bologna commercial where they show only ribeye and prime rib going into your bologna
<gorgonical> "serving suggestion"
<zid> with high speed robotic arms
<kof13> this was supposedly part of the reasoning behind the nintendo seal of quality
<kof13> but i point at cool spot nes
<kof13> i think only the snes was it finally more like the ad
<kof13> rather than basically a board game
<zid> the reason it's allowed, btw, is that almost always the food on set is stone fucking cold
<kof13> *an animated
<zid> so as long as they're not doing it to mislead, but instead to *fix* the issue with the food being cold
<zid> then they're fine
<zid> another common trick is to microwave a wet tampon to get steam behind things
<gorgonical> i should try that for real
<zid> anything wet would work
<gorgonical> like buy dishes with a steam slot
<zid> tampons come with nice carrying handles
<zid> after you microwave it
<gorgonical> "look how delicious this fresh, hot pad thai is!
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<zid> no, you use a pad to make pad thai steam, duh
<zid> transport it via the wings
<gorgonical> touche
<zid> is that a bad mispelling of douche?
<gorgonical> just the american one
<zid> okay why am I being called a douche
<gorgonical> no i'm brainstorming
<gorgonical> feminine hygeine products as used in food photography
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<pyzozord> het, how can an operating system kernel code use printf? https://github.com/mit-pdos/xv6-public/blob/master/init.c#L23
<bslsk05> ​github.com: xv6-public/init.c at master · mit-pdos/xv6-public · GitHub
<Mutabah> they've defined their own printf
<pyzozord> they indeed did https://github.com/mit-pdos/xv6-public/blob/master/printf.c but I don't see any header file imported in init.c that would indicate that they use that
<bslsk05> ​github.com: xv6-public/printf.c at master · mit-pdos/xv6-public · GitHub
<pyzozord> also that printf takes a file descriptor but this is the beginning of the main function of the kernel, there is no files yet, such a concept doesn't exist at this stage in the kernel initialization, no?
<pyzozord> ah sorry i'm worng they are indeed doing some open() and dup() just above, maybe file descriptors already somehow exist in the kernel
<pyzozord> looks like open is defined as syscall in assemlby? https://github.com/mit-pdos/xv6-public/blob/master/usys.S
<bslsk05> ​github.com: xv6-public/usys.S at master · mit-pdos/xv6-public · GitHub
<pyzozord> i'm not sure how to understand this code
<puck> pyzozord: mov SYS_open, %eax; int $64; ret; what's hard to understand :p
<pyzozord> where is sys_open coming from
<puck> syscall.h
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<pyzozord> so thibut then in syscall.c open sys_open is extern? https://github.com/mit-pdos/xv6-public/blob/master/syscall.c
<bslsk05> ​github.com: xv6-public/syscall.c at master · mit-pdos/xv6-public · GitHub
<bslsk05> ​github.com: xv6-public/sysfile.c at master · mit-pdos/xv6-public · GitHub
<puck> pyzozord: that's a different SYS_open anyways
<puck> but yes
<puck> pyzozord: SYS_open is just an index into the syscall table, which points to sys_open
<pyzozord> btw what's uart? I see here https://github.com/mit-pdos/xv6-public/blob/master/console.c that consputc calls both uartputc and cgaputc
<bslsk05> ​github.com: xv6-public/console.c at master · mit-pdos/xv6-public · GitHub
<pyzozord> looks like cgaputc is using "CRTPORT" so I assume that is directly sending bytes to the crt
<GeDaMo> UART is a serial interface
<pyzozord> strange so it's sending bytes both to serial interface and to CRT?
<bslsk05> ​github.com: xv6-public/console.c at master · mit-pdos/xv6-public · GitHub
<pyzozord> looks like cgaputc is using outb which is x86 instruction for memory mapped io, so I think that means this one really sends data directly to a CRT display
<pyzozord> looks like uartputc also uses that outb instruciton, but to a COM1 address
<pyzozord> so there are only 4 ports on an x86 computer? and they all have conventions for what they are used?
<bslsk05> ​wiki.osdev.org: I/O Ports - OSDev Wiki
<pyzozord> "If you want access to a device, you will need to look up the details for the device in question" how can one "look up the details of a device" without knowing it's prot?
<GeDaMo> Presumably you know which device you're interested in
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<pyzozord> so in case of plug-and-play when ports can be assigned dynamically, we need to do a port scan?
<pyzozord> and then each device will have it's own protocol and some way to identify itself, and it's the job of hardware driver software to know these protocols and identify devices?
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<sham1> AML
<pyzozord> AML?
<sham1> ACPI Machine Language. Which despite its name is not a machine language
<pyzozord> oh interesting so ACPI is like standarization of the protocols i was talking about
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<gog> hI??
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<sham1> !iH
<gog> meow
<gog> i really, really hate this unholy mess of msbuild and grunt and webpack and node
<Ermine> gog: may I pet you
<gog> yes
* Ermine pets gog
<sham1> webpack is very convoluted, yes
<gog> i just did a small task of a larger one where we're nuding our build system to no longer have discrepancies between dev and prod
<gog> nudging*
<gog> maybe i'll write an allocator for zid today
<gog> maybe i'll play factorio
<gog> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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<GeDaMo> Build an allocator in Factorio! :P
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<gog> i mean
<gog> circuit network is pretty powerful
<gog> i have a setup to build only the number of whatever item has a negative value in the logistics network
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<gog> hi
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<zid> heat you 100% need to run this video through libcaca and have it as the splash for onyx's bootup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8NKNKub2H
<bslsk05> ​www.youtube.com <no title>
<GeDaMo> Bad link?
<zid> oh wow
<zid> oh cut the final char off
<bslsk05> ​'Mundial Ronaldinho Soccer 64 [Full HD Intro]' by Mato (00:00:23)
<zid> stupid bot spoils it now
<heat> hahaha
<zid> ha ha ha ha ronaldinho socccccer*
<puck> hrmm
<puck> if i could somehow fit this in <1M i'd load it into my vvbios
<puck> uh, probably <500k
<zid> I think if you libcaca + zipped it or whatever it'd be that
<puck> no it has to be graphics
<puck> also, audio
<puck> like. if i turn on my machine rn the first thing you see is kickstart 3.1.4
<puck> ..it then boots into linux
<puck> i created an uefi driver that does this then just kinda flashed it into the vbios (aka option rom) of my gpu
<puck> in effect what i have done is create something that'd be a great prank for a repair guy
<heat> the fuck is libcaca btw
<heat> caca is a portuguese slang for shit
<zid> yes
<zid> the icon is infact, a turd
<GeDaMo> There are some low res versions available via yt-dlp
<zid> It's a library for turning images into terminal escape codes
<zid> libcocoa was the original but didn't do colour or something, afaik
<puck> GeDaMo: yeah but 1440p display
<puck> i mean i could probably just have it load a video off of disk
<heat> damn is caca an international slang for shit
<zid> there's a libavcodec version of it
<zid> yes
<puck> ..though i'm unsure disks are *up* by the time the gpu gets initialisede
<zid> the english cognate word is 'cack'
<zid> most indoeuropean langs have it
<puck> and it's harder to do reading a file than include_bytes!()
<heat> huh
<heat> cool stuff
<puck> but also lol amd doesn't care if i just add a fourth efi driver to the gpu
<heat> >include_bytes!()
<heat> >rust
<zid> include not bytes
<heat> booooooooooooooo
<heat> boooooooooooooooooooooo
<puck> heat: look do you want me to like
<puck> heat: write EFI code in C
<puck> heat: do i havve to go learn zig
<puck> .. i guess i could compile go to uefi
<heat> stahp :(
<FireFly> heat: no in swedish a kaka is a cake :v
<bslsk05> ​en.cppreference.com: Binary resource inclusion (since C23) - cppreference.com
<puck> maybe i could just write in JS and run it under https://github.com/osresearch/safeboot-loader
<bslsk05> ​osresearch/safeboot-loader - Linux kernel module to use UEFI Block IO Protocol devices. Probably not a good idea. (8 forks/53 stargazers)
<puck> GeDaMo: i also need a GIF parser
<heat> you could embed edk2's shitty python port and use that
<puck> actually. do you think i could fit linux in <1MiB of storage
<puck> i could have a GPU that just boots linux when you install it
<heat> compressed?
<zid> yes but it'd be shit
<puck> heat: maaaayb
<puck> zid: i mean
<heat> you'd probably struggle
<heat> i don't know how small tinyconfig is
<puck> for a while i had a GPU that'd turn on, show kickstart, and hang your EFI forever, just looping the same animation over and over
<puck> which, again, great prank to RMA a GPU with
<zid> ATA only etc
<zid> 32bit only
<heat> but my kinda-reduced test kernel is 10MiB
<puck> zid: 64-bit, no disk drivers needed
<zid> no networking
<puck> zid: (it uses the EFI)
<puck> same for networking, EFI drivers used
<zid> no I mean
<zid> no networking
<heat> >EFI networking stack
<heat> fucking hell
<zid> the stack is huge
<puck> ah, fair
<puck> heat: i trust them to not fuck up putting packets onto the wire and taking them off the wire
<heat> do not
<zid> I bet there's like 8MB of code if you enable every networking option
<heat> trust firmware developers
<heat> with anything
<puck> zid: okay, appletalk only then
<zid> appletalk has its own networking stack?
<heat> i wouldn't trust them not to run with scissors
<FireFly> I mean I guess you want EFI networking for netboot purposes maybe?
<puck> hrmm
<puck> do i trust iPXE more than EFI devs....
<puck> 50/50, i thitnk
<FireFly> heh
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<puck> i got burned after realising iPXE fetching files over HTTP is quadratic when using chunked transmission
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<zid> there's a typhoon doing laps above me
<zid> at 600mph
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<heat> EFI iPXE uses EFI's network stack i'm relatively sure
<heat> but the iPXE dev(s) are pretty competent
<heat> at least relatively to firmware devs
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<puck> heat: sometimes.
<puck> but the iPXE source code doesn't entirely fill me with confidence
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<heat> gog: solaris 10
<gog> yes
<gog> YES
* gog does the sickos meme
<heat> true sickos enjoy HP-UX
<heat> >In January 2023, IBM moved development of AIX to its Indian subsidiary.[19]
<heat> sad heat noises
<zid> heat did you port the video yet
<heat> no
<heat> zid did you write my allocator yet
<zid> you were writing mine
<heat> no you were writing mine
<heat> gog was writing yours
<gog> no i was playing factorio again
<heat> gosh darnit
<heat> these portuguese people are so lazy
<heat> doing their fucking siestas
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<gog> not even caring when wine floods the stree
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<netbsduser> hp-ux is an incredible os
<heat> <heat> true sickos enjoy HP-UX
<heat> CALLED IT
<netbsduser> they turned everything into a hashtable in it
<heat> wasn't that sunos
<heat> where the page cache was just a giant hashtable hashed by vnode and offset
<heat> funny stuff
<zid> netbsduser: Still haven't had those popadoms
<netbsduser> zid: where do you live?
<zid> se england
<zid> well, e, depends where you fall on the north south divide
<heat> i live in the
<zid> al garve
<heat> i live in spain 2 electric boogaloo
<heat> alexandra, toca despacito
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<gog> hi
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<sham1> hi
<gog> i'm going to make chicken burritos
<sortie> My OS boots to a graphical terminal on my UEFI laptop in 350 ms :)
<gog> that's fast
<gog> sortix sortix sooooooooortix
<sortie> 11.26 s if you count that damn dell firmware logo
<gog> i have never liked dell
<gog> i owned two in my life
<zid> dell's consumer stuff was super cheap
<zid> and nast
<gog> i had two latitude D-series
<sortie> I never say no when my mom offers me old laptops and desktops from her work for just $40
<gog> they were very cheap
<gog> but they were also very old and used
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<sortie> Yeah this latitude is a good bit newer than the ones I've had, it's actually quite pleasant. Intel Core i5-8350U CPU @ 3.60 GHz (with 4 cores, plus hyperthreading), 16 GiB RAM, Intel UHD Graphics 620, and 256 GB disk. Plus my OS runs very well on it in full native resolution, keyboard and mouse works, disk driver works. I just gotta implement UEFI booting and installation officially. Oh and I need to write a network driver for it
<sortie> Only problem is that it seems to be unstable and deadlock under Linux, probably related to graphics
<sortie> It's a very good Sortix laptop tho
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<gog> not bad
<gog> don't need linux if you have the power of the triangle
<sortie> Boot to trianglix in 333 ms
<gog> 3 3 3
<gog> three sides
<sortie> 1/3
<gog> the triangle is the strongest polygon
<gog> and the fastest
<sortie> You ever have a bunch of squares and want to make a triangle? Can't do it.
<heat> dells are basically not computers
<gog> dude you're gettin a dell
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<sortie> You're just jealous of my Sortix laptop
<zid> I got a free laptop recently
<heat> did i ever tell you all the story of my work laptop that dropped to 300Mhz under load? i did? i know
<zid> not sure if I wanna plug my arcade controller into it
<zid> or plug my OS into it
<sortie> heat, fuck yeah I remember that, and they never got back up to normal clock speed
<heat> The Great Sortix Operating System needs The Great ThermalD
<heat> if it ever desires to run on such great latitude mdoels
<heat> rock solid firmware
<sortie> idk what that is
<heat> thermald?
<sortie> yeah
<zid> Are there w10 drivers for my capture card heat
<gog> thermald unfucks computers with bad thermal throttling
<sortie> Of course heat wants to push thermald
<gog> haa
<zid> looks like no
<heat> what gog said
<gog> i get it
<heat> hehe
<heat> hehe
<zid> fucking w10
<gog> sheshe
<sortie> How?
<heat> zid, i don't know
<zid> should I go back to w7
<zid> so that my hw works
<heat> thermald does fancy x86 stuff and fancy ACPI stuff in response to all sorts of thermal and power events
<heat> with kernel support ofc
<geist> i forget what was the forcing function to hvae to move to w10. d3d12?
<geist> hmm, looks like there was a d3d12 runtime on 7 at some point, but still was a bit different
<zid> yea, WoW made them add it
<zid> and I think maybe cyberpunk or something used it too
<zid> so you could just steal their dlls
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<geist> i did upgrade to w11 on my main machine from w11.though it's mostly the same thing, it's definitely not an improvement
<geist> so definitely stay away from that until you're forced to
<geist> from w10 that is
<geist> w11 seems to be asically the same thing except a few core pieces have been rewritten/reimplemented and has the usual 'new but missing half the functionality of the old' problem
<geist> explorer, task manager, etc
<geist> task bar
<geist> far as i can tell the main impetus for the w11 changes is to provide more ways to shove ads in your face
<zid> main issue with running modern builds of stuff on w10 was just that they didn't keep .net up to date
<zid> and a lot of random unity stuff ends up using a lot of random .NET file i/o functions
<zid> that don't exist
<zid> on w7*
<geist> ah. was gonna say w10 should be fine
<geist> yeah eventually the old thing will just stop working in pieces, really a bummer
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<heat> i like w11
<heat> i use the centered start menu
<heat> sue me
<zid> disregard that, I heard they force enabled taskbar grouping
<zid> completely sinful
<nortti> I think they added ungrouping back recently
<heat> real talk what's your favourite UNIX variant
<nortti> or maybe it was what was going to be in the next version that I saw
<geist> nortti: yeah i'm eagerly awaiting that. every time it updates it check to see if that's there
<geist> i hate the grouped window thing
<geist> my general other observartion is explorer file browser doesn't seem as stable. i think it may have been rewritten since w10
<geist> seems to get stuck, crash, etc more often
<zid> That's just the 14 bonzi buddies you have running
<geist> possible, also i have a lot of network drives off the nas box, so that tends to add a wrinkle
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<gog> solaris
<heat> good choice gog
<heat> the bestest good option
<heat> the un-pessima- wait wrong word
<heat> the un-bad
<heat> also bonzi buddy for solaris when
<heat> https://opensea.io/BonziBUDDY_Official holy fucking shitttttttt
<bslsk05> ​opensea.io: Just a moment...
<gog> oh yeah
<gog> i want a bonzi buddy nft
<gog> give me that sweet, sweet valueless value
<gog> i love a self-contradictary product
<gog> ooh we should buy all the used itanium kit and use shitloads of electricity to lose money trying to mine crypto
<zid> I mean, if you owned a very popular ape
<zid> around the time the NFT scam was hyping up
<zid> unless you were INCREDIBLY ethical.. you'd mint some bonzi buddy nfts
<heat> crypto miners are itanium-optimized
<heat> it'd be OPTIMAL
<heat> we could do it in HP-UX too
<heat> holy shit yes
<heat> dual PA-RISC/ITAAAAAANIUUUUUUM HP-UX crypto mining farm
<heat> who says no
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<bslsk05> ​'Yasser shares some hilarious stories' by chessbrah (00:08:25)
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<gog> hi
<sortie> compiling kernels on my sortix uefi laptop
<sortie> wyd
<gog> crying a little
<zid> Come on gog, there's no need for that.
<zid> Cry a lot.
<zid> You can do it, we believe in you.
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<heat> sortie, build onyx
<heat> show dominance
<zid> osdev relay race
<zid> you have to build the next OS in the list and then pass the image you made along
<heat> #osdev would be more fun if we had challenges but sadly no one but me does osdev here
<zid> because you won't engage with me
<heat> i am fully engaged to you
<heat> i mean with you
<heat> typo oopsie haha
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<heat> when doing LRU how do you handle pages that are in use?
<heat> lets say you're going through the list, doing reclamation, how do you make sure 1) they're not in use 2) they won't be in use while you handle freeing
<zid> keep track, silly
<zid> but surely the point of an LRU is that potentially it's *all* in use
<zid> and you're evicting hoping it won't get faulted back in soon
<heat> i guess if they're held in an object you can just lock that so nothing touches it in the meanwhile?
<heat> which solves 2), but doesn't really handle the 1)
<zid> what are you LRUing?
<heat> like if going through the list and you see a page with ref > 1, do you spin?
<heat> pages
<zid> so what's the problem?
<zid> They might all be in use, them might not be in use at all, the point of the LRU is to make educated guesses as to which are which
<heat> yes, i know
<heat> my problem is with concurrency
<zid> that isn't what you said at all though
<heat> maybe i misspoke a bit
<zid> https://retr0.id/stuff/2038/ stare at clock, clock will make you feel better
<bslsk05> ​retr0.id: s32 unix clock
<heat> when I mean *are in use*, I mean *are pinned due to someone temporarily touching that shit*
<zid> we're about to roll over the green hand
<heat> unex
<zid> if they're pinned, taking the lock will fail, and you know it's not as un-used as you thought?
<zid> so you can just move on down the list to the next-recently-uesd?
<heat> yeah maybe trying and skipping is the solution
<zid> I missed the orange hand rolling over :(
<zid> 2 hours ago
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<sham1> UNEX
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<kof13> > #osdev would be more fun if we had challenges
<kof13> > but my kinda-reduced test kernel is 10MiB
<kof13> make a reflective self-compiling c89. 10 MB is fair for a start. people have different goals :D
<kof13> emphasis on reflective: this pleasant colour of the wild poppy of the Rock, this Tyrian, sparkling and flaming colour, which is incapable of Alternation or change, over which the heaven itself, nor his Zodiac, can have no more domination nor power, whose bright shining rays, that dazzle the eyes, seem as though they did communicate unto a man some supercelestial thing, making him (when he beholds and knows it) to be astonished, to trembl
<kof13> e, and to be afraid at the same time.
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<geist> hmm, 10MB is still pretty big
<geist> or is this 10MB linux or something?
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<kof13> it was a heat quote :D i don't know what he all has, just that is probably large for me
<kof13> for something interpreted, i would want a "vm" run-time less than that (as far as code size)
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<kof13> maybe me limit is useful with 64M ram, but that is arbitrary just because i have some sbc with that
<kof13> *my "useful with 64M ram"
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<kof13> it was more meant as some people are trying to break free of the gcc/clang/whatever dragon > over which the heaven itself, nor his Zodiac, can have no more domination nor power,
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<gorgonical> I think I don't really understand how arm's shareability notions work
<gorgonical> My understanding: core 0 maps PA 0x1000 to VA 0xfff...1000, with inner-shareable on the pt entry. core 1 maps PA 0x1000 to e.g. VA 0x1000, with inner-shareable on the pt entry
<gorgonical> If the memory attribute says write-back cacheable, shouldn't the hardware ensure cache coherency? I shouldn't, as software, have to insert dsb(ish) everywhere, right?
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<zid> I don't know arm, but it definitely sounds like you're mixing two or more concepts together there
<zid> oh hmm maybe not, reading some stuff
<zid> this is all incestuous as hell
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