* kof13
checks manual "I say, thou seest not this head of the Crow, the black of the blackest black, thou must begin again, for this fault is irreperable, and not to be amended"
<kof13>
problem is it is half-rotted, half rotten code mixed with live code. if it was 100% rotted, it would have a nice stable base atop of dead hardware (not a moving target)
<kof13>
rot or rot not, there is no half-rot
<kof13>
</yoda>
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<gog>
you've never seen the codebase shape and maintain
<gog>
i shape
<gog>
software is more like teeth
<gog>
some might be obviously bad
<zid>
highspeed whirring inc
<gog>
some might look good but hide a deep cavity and be about to crack
<zid>
My cat has done an absolutely tremendous shit and the entire house stinks.
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<gog>
go scoop it and bag it and put it outside then
<zid>
I'm not sure I'd catch her.
<gog>
i meant the poo
<zid>
I don't think you understand just how much it smells, it's tangiable.
<gog>
your cat doesn't want to be living in a shit-smelling house anymore than you do
<gog>
there's a solution
<zid>
if she really thought that she'd have buried it
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<gog>
ohhh
<gog>
well that's an attack on you
<zid>
she's just not very good at it :/
<zid>
she often digs but completely misses it
<gog>
aw
<zid>
"I do the poo, then I dig" she hasn't got the "I dig to cover it" aspect
<zid>
litter all over the floor == litter all over the poop
<zid>
JOB DONE, 100% SUCCESS.
<gog>
good kitty
<Cindy>
can i meow for compliements
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<gog>
yes
<gog>
you're a good kitty too
<zid>
does my allocator kind of sorta work with huge drawbacks, yet?
<zid>
(That's the quality level I am looking for)
<gog>
oh i'm sorry i started playing factorio instead
<zid>
understandable
<zid>
I have a 120mm PC fan connected to a random 10V transformer I found for a dead phone or router or something
<zid>
sucking in outside fresh air
<zid>
breathing through nose again unlocked
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<gorgonical>
what a world that we live in
<gorgonical>
where peanut butter exists
<gorgonical>
ambrosia indeed
<zid>
it's okay
<zid>
americans, clapping and peanut butter
<gorgonical>
clapping i'll grant you, but i would expire if i went more than a year without peanut butter
<zid>
how is that a disagreement!?
<zid>
there's no universe in which that's a "but"
<zid>
I think you mean "Incredibly sharp observation, I would infact, give up on life if not for peanut butter"
<gorgonical>
I wouldn't give up
<gorgonical>
My body would give out
<zid>
That's.. you
<gorgonical>
Like a car without gas
<zid>
unless someone else is piloting your body these days?
<zid>
do you have some kind of dysmorphia where you don't think your body is part of you? oh no
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<gorgonical>
who's that mascot that's a peanut
<gorgonical>
he's the one driving these days
<kof13>
i think it is just mr. planters peanut, but he may be a resurrected form of monopoly man, or a cousin
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<gorgonical>
zid: have you ever had dandan noodles? it's a sichuan dish
<gorgonical>
in china it's made with sesame paste but of course here in america i see it as often made with peanut butter
<kof13>
this i agree with, delicious szechuan zone must stay neutral in case of any way, lest heavenly food be lost
<kof13>
*war
<zid>
no
<zid>
I might go make noodles though
<sham1>
What a morning to wake up to and to see that Itanium support was removed from Linux. RIP
<gorgonical>
i made pad thai this evening, without peanut butter
<gorgonical>
so that wasn't very american of me
<zid>
failed as an american then
<zid>
sham1: was it merged?
<zid>
It was still being debated this morning
<sham1>
oh
<sham1>
Must have misread
<zid>
just because someone drops a patch doesn't mean it gets merged, it's an RFC
<zid>
request for comments
<sham1>
Sure, but I'm still in shock
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<zid>
A small convo happened about how hard ia64 was to maintain
<zid>
the concensus was "not much, mm code has to care a little about it"
<zid>
so it seems mostly like a "meh" result
<zid>
if it rots farther it will definitely go, but rn it looks like nobody cares *enough* about either side, removing it OR maintaining it for a clear answer
<gorgonical>
in dutch it's called pindakaas because the dairy lobby was very upset about the idea of it being called peanut "butter" and so it's called peanut cheese instead
<zid>
recipe: fry some finely chopped onion and garlic in soy sauce + oil + chilli powder while boiling noogle, add noogle to frying pan, stir, tip into bowl
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<gorgonical>
I have a hypothesis that the number of kinds of cheeses you have in your fridge at any one time is directly related to your happiness
<zid>
poshness*
<zid>
Does two types of cheddar count as two or one, btw?
<gorgonical>
two
<gorgonical>
Would they be placed together on a cheeseboard is the test
<zid>
cheese is fucking expensive, it used to be the most shoplifted thing in supermarkets
<gorgonical>
just british things
<zid>
we weren't so broke that it was baby formula
<zid>
and meat is too bulky
<zid>
so it was cheese
<zid>
good cost/volume ratio
<gorgonical>
and transportable
<gorgonical>
chuck several blocks of parm into the bag and you can make cacio e pepe for weeks
<zid>
parmesan comes in BLOCKS!?
<gorgonical>
???
<gorgonical>
yes
<zid>
how do they deliver that, solid gold ferrari?
<gorgonical>
like wedges from a wheel
<gorgonical>
well it isn't real parm
<gorgonical>
we have wisconsin to stand in for italy here
<zid>
(£25/kg in the supermarket, so it's probably crap parmesan too)
<gorgonical>
holy shit lol
<gorgonical>
the parm i buy is like $8/lb and it's fine to me
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<zid>
It's not parmesan unless it comes from italy, what you've got is sparkling milk product.
<gorgonical>
have you ever had that cheese with the mites on it
<gorgonical>
mimolette?
<zid>
no I only go for the one with maggots ofc
<zid>
no ofc I fucking haven't, you sick bastard
<gorgonical>
lol
<zid>
I've had plain cheddar, and extra plain cheddar
<zid>
and whatever the plastic is they put on takeaway pizza
<zid>
love that shit
<gorgonical>
that phrasing makes me imagine that it has like american cheese slices placed upon it, like a horrid margherita pizza
<bslsk05>
github.com: xv6-public/printf.c at master · mit-pdos/xv6-public · GitHub
<pyzozord>
also that printf takes a file descriptor but this is the beginning of the main function of the kernel, there is no files yet, such a concept doesn't exist at this stage in the kernel initialization, no?
<pyzozord>
ah sorry i'm worng they are indeed doing some open() and dup() just above, maybe file descriptors already somehow exist in the kernel
<bslsk05>
github.com: xv6-public/console.c at master · mit-pdos/xv6-public · GitHub
<pyzozord>
looks like cgaputc is using outb which is x86 instruction for memory mapped io, so I think that means this one really sends data directly to a CRT display
<pyzozord>
looks like uartputc also uses that outb instruciton, but to a COM1 address
<pyzozord>
so there are only 4 ports on an x86 computer? and they all have conventions for what they are used?
<pyzozord>
"If you want access to a device, you will need to look up the details for the device in question" how can one "look up the details of a device" without knowing it's prot?
<GeDaMo>
Presumably you know which device you're interested in
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<pyzozord>
so in case of plug-and-play when ports can be assigned dynamically, we need to do a port scan?
<pyzozord>
and then each device will have it's own protocol and some way to identify itself, and it's the job of hardware driver software to know these protocols and identify devices?
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<sham1>
AML
<pyzozord>
AML?
<sham1>
ACPI Machine Language. Which despite its name is not a machine language
<pyzozord>
oh interesting so ACPI is like standarization of the protocols i was talking about
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<gog>
hI??
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<sham1>
!iH
<gog>
meow
<gog>
i really, really hate this unholy mess of msbuild and grunt and webpack and node
<Ermine>
gog: may I pet you
<gog>
yes
* Ermine
pets gog
<sham1>
webpack is very convoluted, yes
<gog>
i just did a small task of a larger one where we're nuding our build system to no longer have discrepancies between dev and prod
<gog>
nudging*
<gog>
maybe i'll write an allocator for zid today
<gog>
maybe i'll play factorio
<gog>
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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<GeDaMo>
Build an allocator in Factorio! :P
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<gog>
i mean
<gog>
circuit network is pretty powerful
<gog>
i have a setup to build only the number of whatever item has a negative value in the logistics network
<heat>
>In January 2023, IBM moved development of AIX to its Indian subsidiary.[19]
<heat>
sad heat noises
<zid>
heat did you port the video yet
<heat>
no
<heat>
zid did you write my allocator yet
<zid>
you were writing mine
<heat>
no you were writing mine
<heat>
gog was writing yours
<gog>
no i was playing factorio again
<heat>
gosh darnit
<heat>
these portuguese people are so lazy
<heat>
doing their fucking siestas
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<gog>
not even caring when wine floods the stree
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<netbsduser>
hp-ux is an incredible os
<heat>
<heat> true sickos enjoy HP-UX
<heat>
CALLED IT
<netbsduser>
they turned everything into a hashtable in it
<heat>
wasn't that sunos
<heat>
where the page cache was just a giant hashtable hashed by vnode and offset
<heat>
funny stuff
<zid>
netbsduser: Still haven't had those popadoms
<netbsduser>
zid: where do you live?
<zid>
se england
<zid>
well, e, depends where you fall on the north south divide
<heat>
i live in the
<zid>
al garve
<heat>
i live in spain 2 electric boogaloo
<heat>
alexandra, toca despacito
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<gog>
hi
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<sham1>
hi
<gog>
i'm going to make chicken burritos
<sortie>
My OS boots to a graphical terminal on my UEFI laptop in 350 ms :)
<gog>
that's fast
<gog>
sortix sortix sooooooooortix
<sortie>
11.26 s if you count that damn dell firmware logo
<gog>
i have never liked dell
<gog>
i owned two in my life
<zid>
dell's consumer stuff was super cheap
<zid>
and nast
<gog>
i had two latitude D-series
<sortie>
I never say no when my mom offers me old laptops and desktops from her work for just $40
<gog>
they were very cheap
<gog>
but they were also very old and used
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<sortie>
Yeah this latitude is a good bit newer than the ones I've had, it's actually quite pleasant. Intel Core i5-8350U CPU @ 3.60 GHz (with 4 cores, plus hyperthreading), 16 GiB RAM, Intel UHD Graphics 620, and 256 GB disk. Plus my OS runs very well on it in full native resolution, keyboard and mouse works, disk driver works. I just gotta implement UEFI booting and installation officially. Oh and I need to write a network driver for it
<sortie>
Only problem is that it seems to be unstable and deadlock under Linux, probably related to graphics
<sortie>
It's a very good Sortix laptop tho
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<gog>
not bad
<gog>
don't need linux if you have the power of the triangle
<sortie>
Boot to trianglix in 333 ms
<gog>
3 3 3
<gog>
three sides
<sortie>
1/3
<gog>
the triangle is the strongest polygon
<gog>
and the fastest
<heat>
DELLS SUCKS ASS
<sortie>
You ever have a bunch of squares and want to make a triangle? Can't do it.
<heat>
dells are basically not computers
<gog>
dude you're gettin a dell
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<sortie>
You're just jealous of my Sortix laptop
<zid>
I got a free laptop recently
<heat>
did i ever tell you all the story of my work laptop that dropped to 300Mhz under load? i did? i know
<zid>
not sure if I wanna plug my arcade controller into it
<zid>
or plug my OS into it
<sortie>
heat, fuck yeah I remember that, and they never got back up to normal clock speed
<heat>
The Great Sortix Operating System needs The Great ThermalD
<heat>
if it ever desires to run on such great latitude mdoels
<heat>
rock solid firmware
<sortie>
idk what that is
<heat>
thermald?
<sortie>
yeah
<zid>
Are there w10 drivers for my capture card heat
<gog>
thermald unfucks computers with bad thermal throttling
<sortie>
Of course heat wants to push thermald
<gog>
haa
<zid>
looks like no
<heat>
what gog said
<gog>
i get it
<heat>
hehe
<heat>
hehe
<zid>
fucking w10
<gog>
sheshe
<sortie>
How?
<heat>
zid, i don't know
<zid>
should I go back to w7
<zid>
so that my hw works
<heat>
thermald does fancy x86 stuff and fancy ACPI stuff in response to all sorts of thermal and power events
<heat>
with kernel support ofc
<geist>
i forget what was the forcing function to hvae to move to w10. d3d12?
<geist>
hmm, looks like there was a d3d12 runtime on 7 at some point, but still was a bit different
<zid>
yea, WoW made them add it
<zid>
and I think maybe cyberpunk or something used it too
<zid>
so you could just steal their dlls
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<geist>
i did upgrade to w11 on my main machine from w11.though it's mostly the same thing, it's definitely not an improvement
<geist>
so definitely stay away from that until you're forced to
<geist>
from w10 that is
<geist>
w11 seems to be asically the same thing except a few core pieces have been rewritten/reimplemented and has the usual 'new but missing half the functionality of the old' problem
<geist>
explorer, task manager, etc
<geist>
task bar
<geist>
far as i can tell the main impetus for the w11 changes is to provide more ways to shove ads in your face
<zid>
main issue with running modern builds of stuff on w10 was just that they didn't keep .net up to date
<zid>
and a lot of random unity stuff ends up using a lot of random .NET file i/o functions
<zid>
that don't exist
<zid>
on w7*
<geist>
ah. was gonna say w10 should be fine
<geist>
yeah eventually the old thing will just stop working in pieces, really a bummer
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<heat>
i like w11
<heat>
i use the centered start menu
<heat>
sue me
<zid>
disregard that, I heard they force enabled taskbar grouping
<zid>
completely sinful
<nortti>
I think they added ungrouping back recently
<heat>
real talk what's your favourite UNIX variant
<nortti>
or maybe it was what was going to be in the next version that I saw
<geist>
nortti: yeah i'm eagerly awaiting that. every time it updates it check to see if that's there
<geist>
i hate the grouped window thing
<geist>
my general other observartion is explorer file browser doesn't seem as stable. i think it may have been rewritten since w10
<geist>
seems to get stuck, crash, etc more often
<zid>
That's just the 14 bonzi buddies you have running
<geist>
possible, also i have a lot of network drives off the nas box, so that tends to add a wrinkle
<bslsk05>
'Yasser shares some hilarious stories' by chessbrah (00:08:25)
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<gog>
hi
<sortie>
compiling kernels on my sortix uefi laptop
<sortie>
wyd
<gog>
crying a little
<zid>
Come on gog, there's no need for that.
<zid>
Cry a lot.
<zid>
You can do it, we believe in you.
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<heat>
sortie, build onyx
<heat>
show dominance
<zid>
osdev relay race
<zid>
you have to build the next OS in the list and then pass the image you made along
<heat>
#osdev would be more fun if we had challenges but sadly no one but me does osdev here
<zid>
because you won't engage with me
<heat>
i am fully engaged to you
<heat>
i mean with you
<heat>
typo oopsie haha
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<heat>
when doing LRU how do you handle pages that are in use?
<heat>
lets say you're going through the list, doing reclamation, how do you make sure 1) they're not in use 2) they won't be in use while you handle freeing
<zid>
keep track, silly
<zid>
but surely the point of an LRU is that potentially it's *all* in use
<zid>
and you're evicting hoping it won't get faulted back in soon
<heat>
i guess if they're held in an object you can just lock that so nothing touches it in the meanwhile?
<heat>
which solves 2), but doesn't really handle the 1)
<zid>
what are you LRUing?
<heat>
like if going through the list and you see a page with ref > 1, do you spin?
<heat>
pages
<zid>
so what's the problem?
<zid>
They might all be in use, them might not be in use at all, the point of the LRU is to make educated guesses as to which are which
<heat>
when I mean *are in use*, I mean *are pinned due to someone temporarily touching that shit*
<zid>
we're about to roll over the green hand
<heat>
unex
<zid>
if they're pinned, taking the lock will fail, and you know it's not as un-used as you thought?
<zid>
so you can just move on down the list to the next-recently-uesd?
<heat>
yeah maybe trying and skipping is the solution
<zid>
I missed the orange hand rolling over :(
<zid>
2 hours ago
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<sham1>
UNEX
<sham1>
BEST KERNAL
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<kof13>
> #osdev would be more fun if we had challenges
<kof13>
> but my kinda-reduced test kernel is 10MiB
<kof13>
make a reflective self-compiling c89. 10 MB is fair for a start. people have different goals :D
<kof13>
emphasis on reflective: this pleasant colour of the wild poppy of the Rock, this Tyrian, sparkling and flaming colour, which is incapable of Alternation or change, over which the heaven itself, nor his Zodiac, can have no more domination nor power, whose bright shining rays, that dazzle the eyes, seem as though they did communicate unto a man some supercelestial thing, making him (when he beholds and knows it) to be astonished, to trembl
<kof13>
e, and to be afraid at the same time.
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<geist>
hmm, 10MB is still pretty big
<geist>
or is this 10MB linux or something?
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<kof13>
it was a heat quote :D i don't know what he all has, just that is probably large for me
<kof13>
for something interpreted, i would want a "vm" run-time less than that (as far as code size)
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<kof13>
maybe me limit is useful with 64M ram, but that is arbitrary just because i have some sbc with that
<kof13>
*my "useful with 64M ram"
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<kof13>
it was more meant as some people are trying to break free of the gcc/clang/whatever dragon > over which the heaven itself, nor his Zodiac, can have no more domination nor power,
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<gorgonical>
I think I don't really understand how arm's shareability notions work
<gorgonical>
My understanding: core 0 maps PA 0x1000 to VA 0xfff...1000, with inner-shareable on the pt entry. core 1 maps PA 0x1000 to e.g. VA 0x1000, with inner-shareable on the pt entry
<gorgonical>
If the memory attribute says write-back cacheable, shouldn't the hardware ensure cache coherency? I shouldn't, as software, have to insert dsb(ish) everywhere, right?
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<zid>
I don't know arm, but it definitely sounds like you're mixing two or more concepts together there