klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
<heat> "the history is a fuck"
<heat> now that's a quote
<heat> but yeah i get what you mean
<kazinsal> I haven't read the exFAT specs but I suspect it still has the same kind of wonkiness that OG FAT had
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<netbsduser``> heat: the entire class of conventional filesystems with block bitmaps, direct/indirect/doubly-indirect block pointers, i-nodes, and dirents proved itself to be the best one could want for quite a while
<heat> yeah, even now
<heat> join me at #zfshaters
<netbsduser``> then ext4 seems to be halfway house between a conventional FS and a btrees-everywhere extent-based FS like XFS or btreefs
<netbsduser``> speaking of which i thought the linux people loved JFS and XFS and called them "the future", why did they invent ext4?
<kazinsal> the idea of a #zfshaters reminds me of /r/fucktaa, a subreddit full of people who are irrationally angry about temporal anti-aliasing
<heat> ext4 is much simpler than xfs
<heat> and different
<heat> and sometimes faster, other times not
<kazinsal> we also thought murderfs was the future
<heat> reiserfs poggers
<netbsduser``> that's the trouble with projects whose vision, personality, and drive are all its creator
<netbsduser``> if the author pulls a Louis Althusser then it's all over
<heat> that's some reference there
<heat> also fwiw XFS is pretty widely used still
<heat> like for servers it's mostly ext4 and xfs
<netbsduser``> i heard Red Hat Linux uses XFS by default
<netbsduser``> what i remembear hearing was that they experimented with btreefs but went back on it after some high-profile clients lost their files
<kazinsal> butterfs is the default on synology NASes
<heat> btrfs lmao
<heat> join me at #zfsandbtrfshaters
<kazinsal> coincidentally I have never experienced a default-setup synology that worked right
<netbsduser``> wow, apparently they outright deprecated btreefs and dropped support for it altogether
<netbsduser``> that's a strong vote of no confidence
<heat> huh?
<heat> what's btreefs
<kazinsal> the only b-tree based filesystem you need is BeFS
<netbsduser``> that fs that linux invented, i assume in the days when solaris was still proprietary, so they could get zfs-like features
<heat> oh
<heat> btrfs
<heat> it reads as butterfs btw
<heat> not btreefs
<heat> anyway, the heck are you on about?
<heat> it's well supported and AFAIK default on fedora
<kazinsal> iirc it's still mainline current
<kazinsal> murderfs got marked obsolete though
<netbsduser``> perhaps in fedora core, but not in the enterprise red hat
<kazinsal> supposed to be removed in 2025
<heat> why would RHEL use btrfs?
<heat> it's just slower
<heat> i wouldn't use ZFS on a server as well
<heat> (well, I wouldn't use ZFS anyway)
<netbsduser``> well, they certainly published it, apparently in version 6 as a preview, then ditched it later
<kazinsal> RHEL uses XFS by default because IBM
<bslsk05> ​www.phoronix.com: Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6.8 Deprecates Btrfs - Phoronix
<netbsduser``> "B-tree file system" i thought you said it was butterfs
<netbsduser``> though phoronix is maybe engaging in their typical tabloid journalism
<heat> well, it means btree
<heat> but it reads as butterfs
<heat> but it's btrfs
<heat> kazinsal: and xfs is actually legit
<heat> it's properly fast
<netbsduser``> you would expect no less of an SGi IRIX feature
<netbsduser``> recently an irix community figure was trying to contract people to reimplement the IRIX kernel
<netbsduser``> he offered $2000 for this
<heat> lol
<netbsduser``> i'm not shitting you
<netbsduser``> he contacted a friend of mine, who invented a fantasy RISC workstation and an OS for it, and made that offer
<heat> oh shit im available too
<heat> i write kernal
<heat> kernal go
<heat> brrrrrrrrrr
<netbsduser``> perhaps you will be next to get this offer of a lifetime & the potential to become rich
<heat> everyone gets rich writing IRIX clones
<heat> almost as profitable as tru64 clones
<netbsduser``> i like tru64
<netbsduser``> i have the book on osf/1 here
<netbsduser``> they have the largest page struct of all time (192 bytes)
<heat> wasn't the solaris one as large as that?
<heat> i looked at it a few weeks ago
<netbsduser``> i thought it was only 160
<netbsduser``> and granted this is quite noxious considering tru64's sole port is to a platform where it runs with 8k page size
<heat> oh yes that was my estimate
<heat> i don't know the real size, i don't plan on building illumos any time soon
<heat> ok it seems to be 152 i think
<heat> i looked around illumos for the types i half-assed
<heat> seems that selock_t is just an int, so it saves some bytes there
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<zid> heat did you finish my byte allocatorboi
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<paulman0> hi, is the channel #osdev in freenode still running?
<zid> freenode is still running?
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<paulman0> there's another channel #osev in freenode, and when I register in osdev wiki, the identity in freenode is required
<paulman0> so to ask
<sham1> The wiki hasn't been updated
<sham1> This is the proper channel not taken over by the Joseon Prince
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<DanielH> hello
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<immibis> freenode is dead
<immibis> i figured out what RAID level negative-1 could be
<immibis> we use a section of RAM as cache, and when loading a cache section from disk into RAM, write the evicted data back onto disk. Maintain an index of loaded and unloaded sections in RAM.
<immibis> your total capacity is HDD 1 size + HDD 2 size + reserved RAM size
<immibis> and it's even less safe than RAID-0 because you lose all your data when shutting down
<immibis> i mean when loading something into the cache it swaps places with what's in the cache, instead of being a copy
<dzwdz> i like how that ensures you will lose only the data you're actually using
<immibis> good observation!
<immibis> i didn't think of that
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<geist> oooh that's good
<geist> make them feel the pain, demonstrate the impermanence of data
<geist> expose the cold, cruel, unfeeling aspect of the universe
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<gog> existential fs
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