<kazinsal>
I haven't read the exFAT specs but I suspect it still has the same kind of wonkiness that OG FAT had
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<netbsduser``>
heat: the entire class of conventional filesystems with block bitmaps, direct/indirect/doubly-indirect block pointers, i-nodes, and dirents proved itself to be the best one could want for quite a while
<heat>
yeah, even now
<heat>
join me at #zfshaters
<netbsduser``>
then ext4 seems to be halfway house between a conventional FS and a btrees-everywhere extent-based FS like XFS or btreefs
<netbsduser``>
speaking of which i thought the linux people loved JFS and XFS and called them "the future", why did they invent ext4?
<kazinsal>
the idea of a #zfshaters reminds me of /r/fucktaa, a subreddit full of people who are irrationally angry about temporal anti-aliasing
<heat>
ext4 is much simpler than xfs
<heat>
and different
<heat>
and sometimes faster, other times not
<kazinsal>
we also thought murderfs was the future
<heat>
reiserfs poggers
<netbsduser``>
that's the trouble with projects whose vision, personality, and drive are all its creator
<netbsduser``>
if the author pulls a Louis Althusser then it's all over
<heat>
that's some reference there
<heat>
also fwiw XFS is pretty widely used still
<heat>
like for servers it's mostly ext4 and xfs
<netbsduser``>
i heard Red Hat Linux uses XFS by default
<netbsduser``>
what i remembear hearing was that they experimented with btreefs but went back on it after some high-profile clients lost their files
<kazinsal>
butterfs is the default on synology NASes
<heat>
btrfs lmao
<heat>
join me at #zfsandbtrfshaters
<kazinsal>
coincidentally I have never experienced a default-setup synology that worked right
<netbsduser``>
wow, apparently they outright deprecated btreefs and dropped support for it altogether
<netbsduser``>
that's a strong vote of no confidence
<heat>
huh?
<heat>
what's btreefs
<kazinsal>
the only b-tree based filesystem you need is BeFS
<netbsduser``>
that fs that linux invented, i assume in the days when solaris was still proprietary, so they could get zfs-like features
<heat>
oh
<heat>
btrfs
<heat>
it reads as butterfs btw
<heat>
not btreefs
<heat>
anyway, the heck are you on about?
<heat>
it's well supported and AFAIK default on fedora
<kazinsal>
iirc it's still mainline current
<kazinsal>
murderfs got marked obsolete though
<netbsduser``>
perhaps in fedora core, but not in the enterprise red hat
<kazinsal>
supposed to be removed in 2025
<heat>
why would RHEL use btrfs?
<heat>
it's just slower
<heat>
i wouldn't use ZFS on a server as well
<heat>
(well, I wouldn't use ZFS anyway)
<netbsduser``>
well, they certainly published it, apparently in version 6 as a preview, then ditched it later
<bslsk05>
www.phoronix.com: Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6.8 Deprecates Btrfs - Phoronix
<netbsduser``>
"B-tree file system" i thought you said it was butterfs
<netbsduser``>
though phoronix is maybe engaging in their typical tabloid journalism
<heat>
well, it means btree
<heat>
but it reads as butterfs
<heat>
but it's btrfs
<heat>
kazinsal: and xfs is actually legit
<heat>
it's properly fast
<netbsduser``>
you would expect no less of an SGi IRIX feature
<netbsduser``>
recently an irix community figure was trying to contract people to reimplement the IRIX kernel
<netbsduser``>
he offered $2000 for this
<heat>
lol
<netbsduser``>
i'm not shitting you
<netbsduser``>
he contacted a friend of mine, who invented a fantasy RISC workstation and an OS for it, and made that offer
<heat>
oh shit im available too
<heat>
i write kernal
<heat>
kernal go
<heat>
brrrrrrrrrr
<netbsduser``>
perhaps you will be next to get this offer of a lifetime & the potential to become rich
<heat>
everyone gets rich writing IRIX clones
<heat>
almost as profitable as tru64 clones
<netbsduser``>
i like tru64
<netbsduser``>
i have the book on osf/1 here
<netbsduser``>
they have the largest page struct of all time (192 bytes)
<heat>
wasn't the solaris one as large as that?
<heat>
i looked at it a few weeks ago
<netbsduser``>
i thought it was only 160
<netbsduser``>
and granted this is quite noxious considering tru64's sole port is to a platform where it runs with 8k page size
<heat>
oh yes that was my estimate
<heat>
i don't know the real size, i don't plan on building illumos any time soon
<heat>
ok it seems to be 152 i think
<heat>
i looked around illumos for the types i half-assed
<heat>
seems that selock_t is just an int, so it saves some bytes there
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<zid>
heat did you finish my byte allocatorboi
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<paulman0>
hi, is the channel #osdev in freenode still running?
<zid>
freenode is still running?
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<paulman0>
there's another channel #osev in freenode, and when I register in osdev wiki, the identity in freenode is required
<paulman0>
so to ask
<sham1>
The wiki hasn't been updated
<sham1>
This is the proper channel not taken over by the Joseon Prince
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<DanielH>
hello
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<immibis>
freenode is dead
<immibis>
i figured out what RAID level negative-1 could be
<immibis>
we use a section of RAM as cache, and when loading a cache section from disk into RAM, write the evicted data back onto disk. Maintain an index of loaded and unloaded sections in RAM.
<immibis>
your total capacity is HDD 1 size + HDD 2 size + reserved RAM size
<immibis>
and it's even less safe than RAID-0 because you lose all your data when shutting down
<immibis>
i mean when loading something into the cache it swaps places with what's in the cache, instead of being a copy
<dzwdz>
i like how that ensures you will lose only the data you're actually using
<immibis>
good observation!
<immibis>
i didn't think of that
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<geist>
oooh that's good
<geist>
make them feel the pain, demonstrate the impermanence of data
<geist>
expose the cold, cruel, unfeeling aspect of the universe
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<gog>
existential fs
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