klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
<mcrod> ok so
<mcrod> hopefully I can kill this boss
<zid> nito the ravelord is pretty easy in a bunch of different setups
<zid> but kinda hard if you just try to ram your face into him naked
<zid> tank setup, occult/divine weapon, etc are snore
<mcrod> ok I died
<mcrod> but that's because
<heat> that's because you suck
<mcrod> i didn't expect that the jump to get into the boss fight
<mcrod> would wipe out half of my health
<mcrod> .
<mcrod> i do, won't lie
<heat> fuck you
<mcrod> ds2/ds3/elden ring i'm much better at
<mcrod> well fuck you too
<zid> what about sekiro
<heat> hey you should check out the cute little skellies near the boss room
<mcrod> i did, i was horrified.
<zid> the babies are great
<mcrod> what the fuck...
<mcrod> he turns you toxic and spawns like fucking endless skeletons
<zid> also totg is funny, "remember pinwheel, from 20 seconds ago? he's a trash mob now"
<zid> skeletons revive unless you kill them with occult or divine
<mcrod> AFTER you already lose half of your health
<mcrod> from the JUMP alone
<zid> yea but
<zid> you have 20 +4 estus
<mcrod> no I don't
<mcrod> I have 5
<zid> why not
<mcrod> what do you mean why not
<zid> I mean why not
<mcrod> how do I get 20
<mcrod> oh, just keep kindling
<zid> the big text when you killed pinwheel
<mcrod> bad news though
<mcrod> no humanity
<zid> there's some in the room before nito isn't there
<mcrod> i've had to use them as emergency heals more than once.
<mcrod> i dunno
<zid> I'm used to having like 50 of them unused at this point
<zid> and sort of zone out on where they are
<zid> oh, the babies drop humanity
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<heat> item duping is cool
<zid> DS:R dupe is so silly
<zid> I like the original dupe that's super limited and situational
<heat> the original dupe is limited but somehow better in certain regards
<heat> like your item doesn't fuck off
<heat> whereas in dsr you just manipulate the quantity but lose the item forever
<mcrod> the babies drop humanity
<mcrod> the undead skeleton babies drop humanity
<heat> yes
<heat> babies remember
<mcrod> fuck this shit i'm taking a break
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<zid> They are humans babies
<zid> it's like binding of isaac but in 3d
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<heat> hi its me heat fromt he linux operating system
<zid> eww
<zid> You're just covering for your runescape addiction by pretending you're busy using linux
<zid> it's marginally less embarassing
<heat> i've never played runescape
<heat> do you think im 30?
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<mcrod> ah..
<mcrod> nito, gravelord servants...
<mcrod> i see
<heat> what
<mcrod> i didn't put 2 and 2 together
<heat> the covenant leader is literally him
<heat> the covenant room is literally the boss room
<mcrod> neat
<gog> hi it's me gog from the
<gog> uh
<gog> i don't have an operating system
<gog> i don't even have a kernel
<heat> use onyx
<heat> enjoy brokenness
* moon-child pets gog's lack of kernel
<gog> i'm gonna reimplement onyx poorly
<heat> yes
<gog> i'm gonna call it nyx
<heat> lets build a human centipede of shit kernels
<gog> after my favorite brand of cheap makeup
<heat> better yet, call it nix
<heat> and nixos
<heat> nyx is cheap?
<mcrod> nixon
<moon-child> lol
<gog> nyx is a l'oreal group brand
<heat> and?
<gog> they were a premium brand until about 1999
<gog> then their production got rolled into the same assembly lines that make maybelline
<heat> oh man 24 bucks for a kylie lipstick
<heat> i see how nyx is cheap*er*
<zid> no, nyx is an underworld god
<gog> kylie paid some factory to make stuff to put her name on
<zid> and a capital ship in eve online
<gog> guess who else pays those factories to make products to put their name on
<gog> with apologies to rhianna
<gog> because she is trying something
<gog> she's also just putting her name on a thing that is produced by a factory that makes products for other names
<gog> makeup is a lie
<zid> I mean
<zid> that's how all products work
<heat> brb it turns out im yet again going to play video games
<zid> a dirty chinese person makes them, after some american 'invents' it
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<zid> cars are famous for it too
<zid> a ford nibbler being the exact same car as a skoda boopie
<gog> sorry i got into preachy mode about makeup brand snobbery
<gog> capitalism is capitalism
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<heat> hello its me heat from Windows OS
<heat> version 11
<heat> https://i.imgur.com/yiESXW2.png you simpletons cannot deal with my c e n t e r e d s t a r t m e n u
<bslsk05> ​i.imgur.com <no title>
<zid> where do the title bars go for the windows
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<gog> you have no idea how quickly i reverted that to full width
<gog> icon tasks are good tho
<gog> that was the one change in taskbars that i liked
<gog> everything else is perfect the way it is
<zid> I hear you can't ungroup on w11
<zid> so I refuse to install it
<gog> i've never tried to
<gog> but that's valid
<gog> and i support you
<heat> i like the icons
<heat> im relatively tidy in the desktop anyway so
<gog> i don't even look at my desktop icons ever
<bl4ckb0ne> is simpleton a design pattern somewhat close to the singleton?
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<gog> idk but it must be the one god followed for me HA
* gog sobs
* bl4ckb0ne pats gog
* gog prr
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<heat> im bacc on operating systems development baybeeeeeee
<heat> yesterday i started a ck3 tuscony/italy campaign but man crusader kings is so laborious to play until you get primogeniture
<heat> my heir is even the only non-genius (tbf, quick) child
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<bl4ckb0ne> is he going to be a singleton
<heat> no cuz then my dinasty is fucked
<heat> i had like 8 children tho
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<GreaseMonkey> finally doing something on-topic for this channel, currently making a 32-bit x86 kernel in Zig and i have one complaint: @ptrFromInt(&some_thing) isn't available at comptime
<GreaseMonkey> anyway, making use of qemu's multiboot 1 support
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<sham1> Well of course, some_thing probably doesn't have a pointer at that point yet
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<mjg> any nerds on the channel
<mjg> what's a modern day console mua
<Mutabah> `alpine`?
<Mutabah> Not exactly modern, but it's what I use when I need one
<mjg> brah
<mjg> are you larping beeing a boomer?
<mjg> i tried neomutt, but despite being kind of active in development it keeps using obsolete stuff
<mjg> kind of a bsd of muas
<Mutabah> No... but then again, I use screen+irssi
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<mjg> you are mentally a boomer mate
<mjg> even most diehards ditched screen for tmux
<mjg> i do use irssi, but it's mostly because i can't be arsed to learn anything else
<mjg> i tried weechat but it had some annoying differnces i could not be bothered to even up
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<sham1> GNU Screen is GPL and GNU while tmux is OpenBSD and thus pessimal. The choice is clear
<mjg> shit all you want, user-facing openbsd is pretty decent
<froggey> asking for a "console mua" and calling people boomers lol
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<mjg> hey it's the lisp guy
<froggey> *gal
<froggey> sup
<mjg> oh?
<mjg> apologies
<froggey> np
<mjg> look mate, boomer is the /old/ stuff
<mjg> today even genz recognizes usefulness of cli
<froggey> old stuff like email?
<mjg> i mean of all companies microsoft released powershell
<mjg> that should tell you something
<mjg> i know, e-mail is for password recovery
<mjg> and spam
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<sham1> And git patches
<mjg> so i hear you can somehow *commit* through github webpage(???)
<mjg> that is one genz idea if i ever heard one
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* gog hands froggey a bagel
<GreaseMonkey> does anyone have any clue whatsoever on how to make an always 32-bit-wide jump in at&t syntax on the LLVM assembler
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<GeDaMo> Try putting {disp32} before the jump instruction
<bslsk05> ​sourceware.org: i386-Mnemonics (Using as)
<GeDaMo> Oh, sorry, I missed that you sai dLLVM, I don't know if it works there
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<GeDaMo> Actually, I'm not sure if it works for jumps anyway, it may only be for data items
<zid> I'd hope it works
<zid> you might wanna runtime patch it
<zid> so it has an use case
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<GreaseMonkey> thanks for the link, it does seem to work, but i guess i'm just delaying the part where i give up and use fasm instead
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<gog> the office doggy is staring out the window and woofing softly
<gog> i lov her
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<mjg> :[
<gog> she's not sad, she's tracking. she wants to herd
<gog> its in her blood
<Jari--> gog I have the same feeling after two beers as your dog
<gog> hhhh
<mjg> dog starring through the window is dude's equivalent of standing under the shower
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<mjg> where is that heat mofo when i want to dunk on him
<bslsk05> ​lore.kernel.org: [PATCH] file: always lock position
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<heat> ____fput
<heat> oh hi mjg
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<mcrod> hi
<heat> hi mcrod long time no see
<mcrod> yes it's only been like 14 hours
<mcrod> .
<mcrod> i cannot get back to sleep
<zid> how dark souls did you get
* gog hug mcrod
<heat> i think we can all agree that linux kernel
<heat> dark soul
<heat> dark kernel linux soul
* mcrod hug gog
<mcrod> i still have to beat gravelord nito
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<gog> this method i'm working on has a scope depth of 9
<gog> that's not a record
<gog> but holy shit
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<heat> whats a scope depth?
<gog> if() { foreach() {foreach() {...}}}
<sham1> Linux is the dark souls of kernel development
<gog> i'm inverting and lifting
<gog> yes
<gog> hoisting
<heat> ew
<heat> how does that happen and how do you write code after 9 scopes?
<heat> what kind of column limit lets you use 9 nested scopes?
<nortti> 80 columns at 4 wide indent at least
<sham1> > 4 wide indentation
<gog> 4K HD monitor and no column limit
<gog> that's how the people that wrote this roll
<sham1> Disgusting
<gog> i kow right
<gog> imagine not having 3 buffers open side-by-side all the time
<nortti> < sham1> > 4 wide indentation ← is 4 wide not the most common one nowadays?
<gog> on my monitor and font size i can still do like 90 cols with that
<sham1> nortti: it's common alright
<sham1> It's also wrong
<nortti> howso?
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<heat> because l'terminal has 8 wide tabs and if your 2023 editor doesn't rule itself by 1970s terminals' rules then you're doing it wrong
<nortti> why limit yourself to terminals? iirc mechanical typewriters were usually around 5 spaces for tab
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<gog> we should be writing our code on typewriters and OCRing it into computers
<gog> we might write less code
<heat> good
<gog> yes
<gog> i'm also deleting code rn
<gog> feels so good
<nortti> hm, I wonder which would result in worse throughput, that or punch cards
<kof123> :/
<kof123> insert ibm hitler joke here
<kof123> i would bet on punch cards for efficiency
<kof123> although that is assume you do not drop them, etc.
<kof123> *assuming
<bslsk05> ​'Interview with a VIM Enthusiast' by Programmers are also human (00:04:39)
<kof123> that is hard because there is writing and reading
<kof123> punch cards for reading...
<zid> the emacs one is better
<bslsk05> ​'Interview with an Emacs Enthusiast in 2023 [Colorized]' by Programmers are also human (00:08:50)
<zid> Emacs takes a lifetime to learn. So the sooner you start, the longer it will take
<gog> vim is the best editor
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<bslsk05> ​'Interview with a Senior C# Developer' by Programmers are also human (00:10:55)
<gog> c# is good actually
<gog> send tweet
<heat> send xweet
<heat> xit
<gog> "what is the nullable operator even for?" for operating nulls
<FireFly> null surgery
<gog> they did surgery on a null
<sham1> Funniest shit I've ever seen
<heat> i turned myself into a null
<gog> me too
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<mcrod> no...
<mcrod> the UB problem I'm facing is dark souls
<zid> I should
<zid> play dark souls
<mcrod> no you should help me in my time of need
<zid> with what
<zid> nito?
<zid> either backtrace for occult club, or backtrack for stone armour or havel's, and the occult club, or do it the really scary hard way
<mcrod> no not nito
<mcrod> the boss named "C, Undefined Behavior" with 1 million HP
<zid> Find out the scope of what your debugger knows about the environment
<zid> subtract the answer from 'the entire universe', that's where you need to look
<mcrod> nortti: that is the greatest thing i've ever seen.
<zid> This is what C++ programmers think programming is
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<gog> lmao
<sham1> What else would it be
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<gog> compiler errors should be called objections instead
<zid> found one
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<sham1> Well I'm a C programmer, thank you very much
<zid> closeted.
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<mcrod> i've written C89 code lately
<mcrod> mommy make it stop
<nortti> apparently the gnu coding standards still recommends C89 https://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/standards.html#Standard-C
<bslsk05> ​www.gnu.org: GNU Coding Standards
<nortti> though they also tell you how to make your code compatible with k&r compilers
<nortti> I wonder how many gnu projects follow the standards nowadays
<mcrod> some corporate embedded places still follow MISRA C 2004, which is "C89 without extensions"
<mcrod> MISRA 2012 is a little more enlightened, recommending C99
<zid> C99 ha VLAs which should be avoided
<zid> and ugly C++ comments
<zid> and people use it as an excuse to write ugly code with declarations thrown around like candy
<zid> instead of in structured locations that makes the code easier to read
<mcrod> sometimes I think you're really 60 years old
<zid> VLAs should be avoided.
<mcrod> yes i know that
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<zid> "C99 with caveats"
<zid> is just "Safe C++"
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<zid> I use C99 if I feel the code is improved by designated initializers
<zid> and C11 if I want anonymous unions
<zid> but otherwise stick to C89
<mcrod> for what it's worth, MISRA also recommends avoiding VLAs last I remember
<mcrod> some of the rules are pretty questionable, but overall it's not a bad guideline
<mcrod> C99 is useful because variadic macros, otherwise you have to do ugly things
<mcrod> e.g., maybe you have a macro like ZID_LOG_INFO("SNDLSNDLFN %s %s", gravelord, nito);
<zid> C89 has variadic macros
<mcrod> no it doesn't
<zid> oh
<mcrod> go try to use (...) or __VA_ARGS__ in C89 in a macro
<zid> til
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<zid> I tend to just use gnu mode, rather than locking myself to C89, so I've not ran across it, and forgor
<gog> C23
<gog> get with the times
<zid> C23 adds nothing I give a shit about, as usual
<zid> "Let's break realloc" was an interesting call
<nortti> isn't that because there are existing implementations that do two different incompatible things on that, and nobody wanted to change how they do it?
<zid> It has some okay stuff, that we needed in C99, but it's too late now and we're all using workarounds for the absence for 40 years
<zid> like, a lot of it is just.. useless
<zid> great, C23 has [[]] to implement __attribute__ with
<zid> only gnu is going to be a working C23 compiler *anyway*
<zid> msvc will still need different codepaths
<zid> so it just changes the #define NORETURN __attribute__((noreturn)) to #define NORETURN [[noreturn]] in the #ifdef GCC
<zid> and the majority of C23 is stuff like this
<zid> strdup is now C23, great, I was doing #ifdef strdup void strdup() anyway for windows, so.. nothing changes again
<nortti> don't modern MSVC do C11? that gives you _Noreturn
<zid> see!
<zid> #ifdef MSVC NORETURN _Noreturn
<nortti> or, you know
<zid> the C23 change is irrelevent
<nortti> #include <stdnoreturn.h>
<nortti> noreturn
<zid> what the fuck is that
<nortti> C11 standard way to get the keyword "noreturn"
<zid> no way
<mcrod> i feel like we just killed zid
<zid> I ignored most of C11 like I ignored most of C23, so it's possible he isn't lying, I guess?
<nortti> zid: also, you can nowadays use "inline" too, you don't need to use __attribute__((inline))
<zid> hmm?
<nortti> teasing you a bit on how you're seemingly still using hacks that have been obsolete for years, because you never bothered to look at what compilers support now
<zid> inline is C99
<nortti> indeed, the joke is me implying you'd not know that
<zid> nortti: bro, until literally a couple of years ago, msvc did not support any C99
<nortti> I still doesnt'
<nortti> *n't
<zid> I heard they added C99 support, idk how *much* C99 support
<nortti> no, it has C11 support
<sham1> Just compile with clang, brah
<nortti> code that's C11 compatible C99 can be compiled with that, but aiui there is no C99 support per se
<zid> Anyway, back to stdnoreturn.h
<mcrod> msvc is garbage anyway
<zid> that's now deprecated, and [[]] supports more than just noreturn
<mcrod> hard to believe that game developers use it
<zid> so my original point is fine still
<mcrod> it's just not something I understand
<zid> This is like, the government is hands-off on industry for 40 years, all the businesses sort of vaguely standardize on a certain width of rail gauge
<zid> then the government pops up out of nowhere and says "Oh yea, it's this other gauage nobody has ever used now, gl"
<zid> Which both has obvious problems, and also happened in reality many times.
<zid> :D
<sham1> WG14 does weird decisions for C++ compatibility, yes
<zid> Like, I don't wanna get into a chrome situation where the standard is "whatever gnu (google) says it is"
<sham1> #c has more than enough material to rant about that stuff
<zid> but they're *definitely* coming in too-late and it's very disruptive and bad
<zid> compared to the rough consensus we already had
<zid> This shit needed to happen 20 years ago
<mcrod> i'm just a little appalled at how programming is going anyway
<zid> We still don't have very basic things we've been macroing badly for 40 years, like length of an array, or endian of the host
<nortti> endian of host is standardized in C23
<zid> no it isn't? where?
<zid> no order or endian found on ctrl-
<zid> f
<mcrod> <stdbit.h>
<mcrod> __STDC_ENDIAN_BIG__, you know the rest
<zid> N3022?
<bslsk05> ​thephd.dev: C23 is Finished: Here is What is on the Menu | The Pasture
<zid> Only part of N3022 was accepted, the popcnt macros
<nortti> that is from the editor of C23, saying that endian macros made the cut
<nortti> unless they were later edited out again?
<zid> the open-std page just says (partial)
<zid> hmm wakely isn't awake
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<zid> I'll use em anyway as long as gcc defines them, tbh
<zid> #ifndef __STDC_ENDIAN_NATIVE__ #error
<zid> then someone can hack it out for their system to do the Right Thing
<mcrod> as least true/false/bool are finally keywords
<zid> using their makefile or whatever via -D
<zid> why is that important?
<mcrod> at*
<mcrod> it's not
<zid> It sounds like a waste of time to me
<zid> stdbool was too
<mcrod> but it was always slightly annoying that you needed stdbool.h to get... boolean support
<zid> because boolean support is pointless
<zid> C already converts everything to boolean in boolean contexts
<zid> 0 is false, everything else is true
<mcrod> i get that, but there was always this stupid debate about how to declare a "boolean"
<zid> you use stdbool for documenting that something is a boolean, not for any code support
<zid> my method was just to pretend the identifier with "is" :p
<mcrod> typedef enum { false, true } bool; vs #define false 0 #define true 1 typedef int bool; or dumb arguments like that
<zid> if(is_lagging) fairly understandable
<zid> no need for if(lagging == TRUE)
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<mcrod> no one compares explicitly to true
<mcrod> I think some coding standards require that you do though
<zid> That was basically my entire point?
<zid> nobody uses the true keyword, they use the conversions
<mcrod> and my point was, some people _DO_ explicitly compare to true if they are adhering to specific coding standards in fairly widespread use
<zid> so it's just whether you get to define the size of your boolean's storage or not
<zid> which is either a bonus, or a non-conformity, however you wanna view it
<mcrod> the rationale being it is somehow more obvious that IsGravelordNitoHard() is.. a bool
<zid> but given I have literally never seen stdbool used
<mcrod> heat: wake up
<mcrod> zid I am commanding you to help me
<zid> I already did
<mcrod> pffff
<zid> you need to get back to me with which thins the debugger can see and which it can't
<mcrod> ok
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<mcrod> zid: see PMs
<Ermine> Lol, my wireless usb adapter driver broke in windows
<Ermine> inb4 certificate has been expired
<Ermine> or revoked
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<sham1> zid: I use the true keyword
<heat> mcrod, hello
<heat> btw _Bool is useful stfu
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<mcrod> also it just hit me
<Ermine> Apparently going to buy new wifi adapter
<mcrod> do you not use stdint.h zid
<mcrod> heat: our suffering awaits
<Ermine> (Easier said than done when looking for mediatek-based adapters)
<heat> i've given you all the hintz
<heat> you just need to use em
<heat> if your thing is simple you also could just set a breakpoint at a known good point and then step
<Ermine> I guess 5GHz WI-FI is more sensitive to obstacles?
<mcrod> it's not simple
<mcrod> currently I'm just waiting for the laptop to stop windtunnelling
<heat> Ermine, yea
<heat> thick walls make it sad
<heat> american walls make it happy
<gog> meow
<Ermine> gog: may I pet you
<gog> yes
* Ermine pets gog
<Ermine> heat: my main concern is a wardrobe and an iron bed on the way of signal
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<zid> 5GHz can barely go through air
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<Ermine> No, afaik that's 60Hz which interferes with oxygen
<zid> compared to visible light it's like looking through smoke
<zid> and walls are like.. walls
<zid> 2.4 can sorta barely go through thin walls
<Ermine> Anyway, prices are horrendous
<zid> mcrod: I use stdint when stdint is useful, aka basically never
<zid> but sometimes, for like, emulators
<zid> where I am modelling specific amounts of bits
<Ermine> It's getting robbed instead of getting an adapter
<zid> and not 'numbers'
<gog> hi
<zid> gog have you ever seen a number before
<zid> imo they're disgasting and should be banned
<gog> ew numbers
<Ermine> mew
<zid> I heard a rumor that heat spends his nights doing obscene things with numbers
* gog prr
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<Ermine> Lol, usb3 cables emit 2.4Ghz
<zid> everything emits everything
<zid> gpus at least at some point, had to do bus scrambling
<mcrod> god
<mcrod> VPN is so fucking slow
<mcrod> jesus christ
<zid> because of very normal access patterns turning them into very good radios
<zid> like, 001100 at 2ghz is just 010 at 1GHz
<zid> it can also normalize current spiking too as an added bonus
<zid> long strings of 1 draw more power
<zid> ddr is scrambled i think
<nortti> iirc at one point computer oscillators had a little bit of intentional drift for a similar reason
<Ermine> in usb case, that means that usb+bt adapters have bt working only in usb2 mode
<zid> nortti: I'd rather imagine it was unintentional unintentional drift :p
<zid> that is to say, "It drifts" "oh okay, that's fine, probably helps with EM"
<Ermine> Good that I have an unused adapter
<Ermine> Had BSODs with it, but I can tolerate it for 3 weeks
<mcrod> heat: see discord or ban
<mcrod> zid: help!
<mcrod> I have the information you want
<zid> okay
<mcrod> i mean, i don't know exactly
<zid> and I don't know at all
<mcrod> i'm looking in the call stack when this thing gets modified
<mcrod> what worries me is this: the bottom of the call stack is address 0
<mcrod> which, that's nice.
<zid> the bottom of all call stacks is 0
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<mcrod> no I don't think you follow me
<mcrod> I literally think we're jumping to NULL, then somehow jumping to other code?
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<jimbzy> Gotta jump somewhere I suppose. ;)
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<gog> hi
<jimbzy> Hallo
* gog jumps on the tabe
<gog> table
<zid> poor tabe
<sham1> I would imagine tabe enjoying it
<Ermine> So devices are not supposed to work forever under windows because of certificates?
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<zid> imaging using signed drivers
<Ermine> that's windows
<zid> not if you disable needing signed drivers!
<Ermine> Well, you can use unsigned drivers, but anticheats and drm won't work
<zid> No idea how easy/hard that is in w11 though
<gog> meow
<sham1> mow
<Ermine> mew
<mcrod> hi
<gog> i'm deleting so much code y'all
<gog> this gives me life
<gog> this is karma building
<gog> i'm reducing the average level of code shittiness in the world
<sham1> Towards that bauhaus minimalist form
<gog> yes exactly
<zid> The platonic ideal source file is empty
<GeDaMo> No code, no bugs
<jimbzy> ^
<zid> Yea it's a fairly simple limit problem
<zid> Code has bugs in it, so less code has fewer bugs
<zid> ergo 0 bugs -> 0 code
<gog> what about less code that compiles to more code than the same expression in another language
<gog> can we guarantee that the compiler isn't bug
<zid> means it generates more bugs per line
<zid> so should never be used
<gog> or that the underling electroinics aren't bug
<gog> ok time to go
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<sham1> I was feeling a bit nostalgic: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat
<bslsk05> ​www.destroyallsoftware.com: Wat
<sham1> That talk is over 10 years old
<zid> so is gog
<zid> we're not sure about heat
<nortti> recently rewatched the birth and death of javascript, and it's kinda funny how it predicted everything moving into the browser, whereas in the real world around the same time we started shipping just N copies of chrome and doing desktop apps with the tooling
<zid> yea, chrome is just becoming the OS
<zid> it has a printer spooler, windowing toolkit, event timers, etc etc
<zid> process isolation, audio mixing
<zid> accelerated 3d graphics
<zid> javascript basically turning into windows 95 level winapi
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asymptotically_ is now known as asymptotically
<sham1> Except worse
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<sham1> Didn't think that would be possible, but I suppose that if you have enough Google money and Netscape's magic dust, you can do anything
<zid> the future of computing is "chrome" and "javascript"
<zid> those are your two options for writing software
<zid> chrome developer, javascript developer
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<sham1> Hey hey now, you also have HTML developers and CSS developers
<zid> "mom I wanna watch oppenheimer"
<zid> "We have oppenheimer at home!"
<sham1> > sign language
<sham1> I can't wait to get sign language content from Spotify
<zid> spotify?
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<zid> have they branched out into 1980s documentary biopics?
<sham1> That looked like spotify
<sham1> What is that
<zid> iplayer
<sham1> Ah
<jimbzy> Sounds like a fever dream, zid.
<jimbzy> That, or maybe an appearance by the Harlem Globetrotters.
<sham1> I would imagine that documentary (series?) probably not having Christopher Nolan sound mixing
<zid> The sound department was ron edmonds, peter edwards and trevor webster
<jimbzy> Randy Newman.
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<mcrod> god
<mcrod> I wish we had static analyzer tools!
<mcrod> fuck!!!
<zid> email it all to coverity
<mcrod> hey we use coverity
<mcrod> but we don't have any access to run it locally
<zid> Then you hav static analyer tools
<zid> yea nobody does?
<mcrod> yeah, and that's annoying.
<mcrod> at least pc-lint, which is LLVM based, I could
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<heat> hi im back had a great sleep
<zid> what was his name
<heat> top 10 greatest naps of my live for sure
<heat> life*
<Ermine> poggers
<heat> goggers
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<mcrod> heat: check your discord as if you're going to be of any help now
<mcrod> and then, dark souls
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<sham1> hooters
<gog> femboy hooters
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<mcrod> gog may I hug you
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<heat> mjg, how plausible is it that classic RCU with a single global lock on $data structure scales to hundreds of CPUs?
<heat> paulmck says it does, or even to the thousands range if you massage some params a bit
<heat> i find it... odd
<mjg> what does it mean "scales" in this context
<heat> doesn't contend to pieces?
<zid> c1k
<mjg> mofo
<mjg> for example, if rcu lets you avoid doing any writes to the sucker
<heat> this is a data structure that gets locked on every quiescent state
<mjg> and you never free it
<heat> oh i mean actual RCU impl, not RCU usage
<mjg> mcki himself implemented a tree-based state propagation to make it work with bignum cpus
<heat> this is basically a struct you need to look at for every quiescent state where you need to *act*
<heat> yes allegedly because the tree-based solution scales to thousands ez
<mjg> i find it plausible that when there is not much freeing going on
<mjg> this is not fucking atrocious, esp. if you extend the grace period
<mjg> to something stupidly long
<mjg> but this is unlikely to be usable in a /practical/ setting
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<mjg> bbl
<heat> i kinda want a shot at rolling my own and just LGPL'ing it or some shit
<heat> and i kinda grok the OG rcu implementation
<geist> word. do it!
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<mcrod> question
<mcrod> i realize the silliness of the question
<mcrod> sections overlapping in a linker == possibly stupid things happening?
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<heat> RTFM!
<mcrod> :(
<heat> note that he's talking about IAR not GNU ld linker scripts
<mcrod> yeah but I thought the same principles would apply regardless
<heat> well, different tooling
<heat> AFAIK GNU ld shits itself if you give it overlapping regions
<mcrod> i wouldn't think you could say "this *distinct section* is also part of this other *distinct section*"
<mcrod> right
<heat> as in it errors out
<heat> not the bad shits itself
<mcrod> sections I would imagine *cannot* overlap, otherwise they're not unique
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<mcrod> fucking dumb. some of the shit I was seeing in the call stack is actually virtual registers (i.e., spilled values)
<mcrod> that's on page... 151
<mcrod> nice.
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<geist> yeah from your ddescription yesterday it seemed like a pretty standard 'something coloring outside the lines'
<geist> though overlapping linker sections is a new one
<gog> hi
<sham1> Hi
* kazinsal pets gog
* gog prr
<mcrod> gog: wtf my hug
<sham1> Denied
<dzwdz> any tips for finding motivation to get back into osdev after a break?
<dzwdz> i stopped working on my kernel/os for like half a year because i had to study up for finals etc
<heat> just do it
<heat> dont let your dreams be dreams
<heat> yesterday you said tomorrow, so just do it
<sham1> If you find motivation, you should also tell me where you found it
<bslsk05> ​'Shia LaBeouf "Just Do It" Motivational Speech (Original Video by LaBeouf, Rönkkö & Turner)' by MotivaShian (00:01:04)
* gog hug mcrod
* mcrod hug gog
<mcrod> that's better
<gog> sorry buddy i'll remember next time
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