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<gog>
hi
<zid>
Hello, I am scared of you so I will be hiding
* ChavGPT
picks gog up and spins around
<ChavGPT>
gog where is zid
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<heat>
where's mjg that bastard
<heat>
ChavGPT, you're the one shitting on solaris innit
<heat>
i glorify solaris and the great systems of the past
<ChavGPT>
solaris is greaterest
<ChavGPT>
Sent from my Solaris/Sparc64
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<heat>
macOS git should append "Sent from my iMac" to commit messages
<heat>
freebsd's commit log would be in shambles
<ChavGPT>
L Mao
<ChavGPT>
"Committed from my Ubuntu"
<ChavGPT>
i have a shite patch to write and struggle to get myself to do it
<gog>
does anybody want to go to reading and do something for me
<ChavGPT>
no mate
<gog>
there's a company whose dvelopers need a good talking to
<ChavGPT>
too busy procrastinating
<gog>
thanks
<ChavGPT>
yw
<heat>
you're all talk no action gog
<ChavGPT>
watch Sevrance
<ChavGPT>
great tv show
<heat>
you'd pull up to that company and be a smol cute cat
<ChavGPT>
actual serious comment
<heat>
i'm beby
<zid>
I don't wana go to Reading
<zid>
I am already reading though
<ChavGPT>
I went to Listening
<gog>
im maby
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<mcrod>
hi
<mcrod>
reading is close to my area
<gog>
reading uk, not pa
<mcrod>
oh.
<gog>
thanks tho :P
<mcrod>
i was going to ask if you wanted to meet up too
<mcrod>
:(
<ChavGPT>
georgia is not far from here!
<gog>
come to iceland
<gog>
we have ice
<gog>
and land
<ChavGPT>
come to poland
<ChavGPT>
they have po and land
<ChavGPT>
(Platforma Obywatelska is a political party)
<zid>
won't even have ice for much longer
<zid>
you'll just be land
<zid>
and greenland is already taken as a name
<zid>
mossland
<FireFly>
just swap the names of greenland and iceland
<zid>
iceland vs denamrk? I'd ppv that
<FireFly>
I hear iceland's a grocery store selling frozen goods
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<heat>
ChanServ, one of my professors doesn't understand the stack and virtual memory and i find that charming
<heat>
ChavGPT,
<heat>
fucking chanserv
<gog>
virtual memory
<zid>
professor of what
<zid>
if it's biology I wouldn't be surprised
<heat>
distributed systems
<heat>
motherfucker was teaching C and gdb and valgrind
<zid>
distributed systems don't run on operating systems, so that's fine
<zid>
they run on the buttt
<heat>
it was an example where they returned a pointer to a buffer that falls out of scope and he said that in his virtual machine since it's low on memory the old stack memory was some other process', hence printing garbage
<zid>
ouch
<zid>
that's the old "a little knowledge" adage
<zid>
made flesh
<zid>
what's the right way to correct that I wonder "Actually, this is a gnu/linux system so objects with automatic storage duration will typically be allocated out of the process's stack space, and while referencing after they have expired is UB, we can be reasonably confident to instead get a view of what is now currently on the stack instead, qed eat a dick"
<zid>
would be my guess
<heat>
just "eat a dick" sounds better to me
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<zid>
Follow it with "This is a unix system, you should know this, clever girl that you are"
<zid>
wait, is heat old enough to have seen jurassic park
<zid>
it came out in 1997 or something
<heat>
i know the reference
<heat>
i'm not sure if i did see the OG jurassic park
<zid>
there is only one jurassic park
<heat>
it's a whole series
<zid>
nope
<zid>
It's one movie, then a spin off cash-grab franchise
<zid>
which is entirely unrelated
<heat>
sounds like a series to me
<zid>
the series is, jurassic park is not connected to it
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<zid>
Like how X and twitter aren't the same service, despite a direct lineage
<zid>
I tried to genz it for you
<heat>
wdym X and twitter aren't the same service
<heat>
they literally are, it's just a reskin
<zid>
one is a paid platform for racism, one is a silly website to workshop your one-liners
<gog>
i miss the halcyon days where if you had $8 you could impersonate celebrities
<ChavGPT>
heat: loller
<heat>
what if you were workshopping your racist one-liners
<ChavGPT>
heat: lemme tell you a story fuckwad
<zid>
you used truth social
<ChavGPT>
my second semester in college i had "procedural programming"
<zid>
or neopets
<ChavGPT>
2 person groups were created to write a project, i went solo
<heat>
most sociable freebsd developer
<ChavGPT>
wrote what is in retrospect a shite idea, a sysctl fs
<heat>
OH
<ChavGPT>
the code was fucking atrocious
<ChavGPT>
anyhow
<heat>
peek at /proc/sys/
<ChavGPT>
that was for freebsd mon
<heat>
sgtm
<ChavGPT>
the person teaching did not understand kernel vs userspace
<heat>
i bet linuxulator does that shit
<ChavGPT>
i started explaining
<ChavGPT>
she literally told me "i can learn a lot from you"
<ChavGPT>
liek wtf
<ChavGPT>
so ye... college
<heat>
yeah
<heat>
i feel you
<ChavGPT>
meanwhile other students in your group are copy pasting code from last year, stackoverflow or chatgpt
<ChavGPT>
which is representative of vast majority of the industry
<ChavGPT>
i went solo project because there was nobody i could work with in my fucking group
<ChavGPT>
i found few other clued people in other groups
rwb is now known as rb
<gog>
i write my own aful broken code
<gog>
i don't need machine learning or stackoverflow
<ChavGPT>
there was one guy in my group larping skill
<heat>
that's the spirit gog
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<ChavGPT>
he one one line as a get out of jail free card
<heat>
you have to beat the AI bots at their own game
<ChavGPT>
"embedding asm in pascal code"
<heat>
pascalmao
<ChavGPT>
whatever you say, he would mention pascal and asm as a way out
<ChavGPT>
i'm confident he did not know either
<ChavGPT>
and i suspect realities of mixing asm and pascal were pretty abysmall anyway
<gog>
nah it's fine x86 is a pascal machine
<gog>
it was designed for pascal
<ChavGPT>
did you mean Pascal
<gog>
no
<heat>
x86 was designed for the linux kernel
<ChavGPT>
no. it was designed for the solaris kernel
<ChavGPT>
to lure it away from sparc
<ChavGPT>
and it worked
<heat>
linus torvalds made up the PTE format, then intel made it fit with their design
<heat>
it's literally unfair
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<ChavGPT>
did you know his parents named him after the linux kernel
<heat>
rms was at that meeting but he just made an abort() joke and left
<ChavGPT>
there are strict rules about fraternization on the channel
CryptWiFi is now known as CryptsWiFi
<FireFly>
sometimes I wonder about this channel..
<kazinsal>
twenty years ago this was a hardcore channel where we all pretended to be super turbo nerds working for the big OS companies
<ChavGPT>
i worked for a big os company
<ChavGPT>
it was big and at least claimed to be os
<kazinsal>
now we're either actually turbonerds working for etc or have just enjoyed our time doing it for fun and are also gay
<ChavGPT>
but ye, now you are all non-c devs for pay
<ChavGPT>
or kernel
<sham1>
Java paya better
<ChavGPT>
CRUD is where it's at
<ChavGPT>
sad but true
<kazinsal>
source: would like to kernel hack in C for work but have more fun doing it casually while also being aggressively catboy on IRC
<ChavGPT>
i'll ask my waifu
<ChavGPT>
brb
<heat>
you forgot 3) genz shitposter
<mcrod>
sham1: yes
<kazinsal>
unfortunately I am a few years too far old to fall under the genz gender-shitposter fold
<Ermine>
Why kissing girls if we have solaris
<kazinsal>
born too late to own property, born too soon to be a hot terminally online mess
<Ermine>
gog: have you ever been petted today
<heat>
ironically the solaris people do kiss girls
<heat>
and they fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
<ChavGPT>
they mostly fuck over customers
<kazinsal>
why have i not gotten into solaris
<kazinsal>
why did i get into openbsd
<Ermine>
ah, so bryan defended solaris
<sham1>
ChavGPT: thus is the Oracle way
<ChavGPT>
oracle is your abusive ex gf
<sham1>
I like how Oracle has evolved Java and whatnot but not gonna lie, the company is a tad shitty
<sham1>
Helps that SUN was quite stagnant when it got eaten
<ChavGPT>
everyone non-linux got eaten or exited the OS market
<ChavGPT>
or converted to linux ofc
* ChavGPT
waves at IBM
<sham1>
Even Microsoft?
<sham1>
Even Apple?
<ChavGPT>
in this context that's unix vendors
<ChavGPT>
you don't want to call apple a unix vendor, do you
<sham1>
Oh yeah, in terms of Unix vendors hes
<sham1>
Yes
<heat>
apple is definitely a unix vendor
<ChavGPT>
lol Tru64 unix innit
<ChavGPT>
they may be a certified unix, but it mostly tells you about certification than unix
<ChavGPT>
even windows got it, so...
<Ermine>
the certification process is super suspicious
<heat>
bud
<heat>
macOS is 100% a UNIX
<ChavGPT>
you had a vision of steve jobs last night
<heat>
it's full of BSD code, works like a UNIX, the APIs are UNIX
<heat>
what else do you need?
<ChavGPT>
code quality is 100% unix, i give you that
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<heat>
ChavGPT, you fucks tried getting entropy from unintialized stack variables
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<ChavGPT>
:(
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<ChavGPT>
hey, it is GARBAGE therefore safe
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<Ermine>
an unix
<Ermine>
ska found non-compliance when testing stuff on macos
<gog>
Ermine: i've never been petted
<gog>
i found the guy whose code i'm often fixing on linkedin
<gog>
what should i do
<netbsduser``>
invite him to join your network
<netbsduser``>
your network is your networth
<gog>
true
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<redson>
Hi
<sham1>
hi
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<redson>
I'm trying to understand the stack trace thing. If I call a function, the caller address goes to the stack so that it can RET, right? Then, why is rbp 0 if I'm calling it from a function called from another function?
<zid>
because rbp is not the stack pointer?
<redson>
🫠
<ChavGPT>
did you mean rsp
<redson>
I'm getting confused by these stack registers
<redson>
Lemme try with rsp...
<zid>
well, there's one, rsp
<sham1>
But the base pointer is the "bottom" of the stack (it's of course above the stack pointer because stack grows downwards0
<sham1>
)
<gog>
stack go spinny
<zid>
rbp is a normal reg, ebp might be a base pointer, some of the time
<zid>
in someabis
<sham1>
Well rbp is also a base pointer ofc
<zid>
sysv doesn't use stack frame nonsense
<zid>
windows 64 bit abi might, but it also uses shadow stack space, so it can safely be ignored
<sham1>
sysv used to, but then it stopped for some reason
<sham1>
Annoyingly
<zid>
because it just wastes a reg, and we have DWARF
<zid>
most 32bit stuff was built -fomit-frame-pointer anyway
<froggey>
we have plenty of registers now and dwarf is a minor nightmare to decode
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<Hammdist>
hi all. I'm trying to interface with GICv2. the simplest sample code is written in zig: https://github.com/luickk/zig-gicv2/blob/main/gicv2.zig what bothers me is the gicc and gicd offsets in the code. first of all, those addresses seem phony, and why should gicc have a higher address than gicd? how would I know which base addresses are appropriate
<Hammdist>
for my device (rk3328). the TRM of the device does not give the addresses. when I look at u-boot source code I get the idea that something starts at ff811000 but I do not know if it is gicc or gicd and where the other one is. any ideas?
<bslsk05>
github.com: zig-gicv2/gicv2.zig at main · luickk/zig-gicv2 · GitHub
<bslsk05>
github.com: illumos-gate/usr/src/uts/sparc at master · illumos/illumos-gate · GitHub
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<ChavGPT>
how (in)expensive is it to check if interrupts are disabled on arm64?
<gog>
it's extremely pessimal
<ChavGPT>
asking for a friend
<ChavGPT>
don't mess with me with on this one gogs
<heat>
cc geist
<heat>
as the likelier person to know this
* gog
gogs
<ChavGPT>
gogs gonna gog
<heat>
the insn sequence is simple, just a mrs daifset
<heat>
plus a branch
<ChavGPT>
brah
<ChavGPT>
cli is also simple
<gog>
you know what's optimal and performanty
<ChavGPT>
and EXPENSIVE AF
<gog>
me after some pets
<ChavGPT>
pass
<ChavGPT>
i picked you up earlier today
* gog
hsss
<ChavGPT>
not in the pickup artist sense
<ChavGPT>
iw as about to write it is weird the word "artist" is used here
<ChavGPT>
but then i remembered con artist
<gog>
same energy
<ChavGPT>
so i'm gonna raise an eyebrow at english
<ChavGPT>
ey gogs, horses have three eyes
<gog>
yeah they can see into the dimension of the subconscious
<gog>
that's why they're so skittish
<ChavGPT>
dawg
<ChavGPT>
that was the line PU line i knew
<ChavGPT>
i thought it is famous
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<gog>
what
<ChavGPT>
"horses have three eyes" is a convo starter
<heat_>
WHAT
<ChavGPT>
you walk up to a 7 and say that
<ChavGPT>
the point is to get some bullshit going
<gog>
that'll never work
<ChavGPT>
i never tried, no idea
<geist>
cheap
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<geist>
to check for IRQ
<ChavGPT>
the line
<ChavGPT>
oh ok
<ChavGPT>
;)
<ChavGPT>
geist: what's the cost of taking an interrupt trip
<gog>
the irq line
<geist>
note that msr daifset/clr *may* involve some sort of pipeline stall depending on the core
<ChavGPT>
geist: as in turn off and on
<geist>
but i think it's substantially cheaper than x86. at least you dont have to push/pop to read the current state
<geist>
you just read from the daif register and mask out the i bit
<heat_>
i think the real troublemaker is if you stall
<heat_>
cli/sti *should* be fast, but they're not
<geist>
i haven't personally seen this, but i remember someone that had worked at apple mentioned that at least their cores have some amount of expense there
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<geist>
some sort of pipeline sync, maybe not a full stall, but some sort of barrier
<geist>
which of course makes total sense, it should at least be functionally equivalent to an isb
<ChavGPT>
cpus suck man
<ChavGPT>
for real
<geist>
i suspect the cost of something that adds an instruction barrier actually goes up based on how OOO the core is, since you're potentially nerfing more state
<geist>
vs a simple, mostly in order core like a cortex-a53
<geist>
or, say, an original pentium
<heat_>
this is why CPUs should do things IN ORDER and ONE AT A TIME
<geist>
riscv is even neater with regards to irq disable save/restore, since you can do an atomic set/clear and swap with the old value
<geist>
you can clear and save state in the same instruction
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<netbsduser``>
heat/companioncube: sparc is being dropped
<CompanionCube>
netbsduser``: yeah i remember seeing the proposal
<netbsduser``>
they are doing it slowly rather than just deleting the subtree and celebrating the sacking like goths in the streets of rome
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<ChavGPT>
where is the dicussion?
<pitust>
netbsduser``: dropped from what?
<netbsduser``>
pitust: the illumos-gate
<heat_>
the sadness is immeasurable
<pitust>
ah right
<mcrod>
i need someone to tell me if i’m being silly
<pitust>
you should suggest that to people laying down mines in wars
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<mcrod>
that's... that's not the same thing
<mcrod>
there is an assumption that the mine works
<pitust>
yeah okay sure
<pitust>
no i get it
<pitust>
aren't these debug assertions that should only be built in like debug builds?
<mcrod>
yeah
<mcrod>
i dunno. i just think "well it's still code to test"
<pitust>
so you have tests that wont work in normal builds
<pitust>
they are debugging aid
<pitust>
aids
<mcrod>
that's not necessarily unusual, depends on how you define 'normal builds'
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<mcrod>
I'm splitting hairs here, but
<heat>
you are
<mcrod>
what did I just say
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<heat>
exactly
<pitust>
netbsduser``: the IPD also says one of the advantages of dropping SPARC is "use of Rust to implement new facilities in the kernel"
<heat>
anyway assertions are not testable
<mcrod>
i hate you.
<pitust>
oh boy
<heat>
pitust: hahahahahaahahaha
<gog>
you know what's testable
<heat>
my testies
<gog>
no
<mcrod>
for what it's worth
<sham1>
I wonder, does heat have 100% coverage
<mcrod>
if there's a debug assertion and the function doesn't stop
<heat>
mcrod you hate me and love me
<heat>
because i challenge you
<sham1>
And I don't mean heat's code
<mcrod>
I want to be able to say "user, there is an internal error, click "send to mcrod" for a report"
<mcrod>
not just straight abort()
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<sham1>
Sounds like an exception in something like Java or C#
<mcrod>
sure
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<mcrod>
i dunno. maybe i'm thinking too hard
<pitust>
you are
<mcrod>
i do not like the idea of having people beta test something, and it completely shits the bed and I have absolutely no idea why
<mcrod>
alternatively I could just log stuff
<mcrod>
and hope that someone is able to zip that up and send it to me
<mcrod>
that's also what the ASSERT_AND_RETURN idea was
<mcrod>
if there's a critical problem, call this function and stop what the fuck you're doing
<mcrod>
and sure, that may only be in debug situations but... that's kinda the point given the parameters.
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<mcrod>
heat: i only hate you sometimes
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<netbsduser``>
pitust: yes, there has been a chorus of men singing the praises of rust around the illumos world, and their song is reaching a fever pitch
<netbsduser``>
i would not be surprised if an aggressive host of rustications started appearing in illumos soon
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