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<Jack22>
sad because people choosing the wrong side
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<JakeSays>
Jack22: wrong side of what
<teepee>
it's sad if people call it open source when using proprietary tools and share the final result
<teepee>
it's cool to share whatever people decide, even if it's just the final STL
<JakeSays>
the fusion360 source would be useless to me anyway
<teepee>
but the core idea of open source is about giving people every option you have yourself
<JakeSays>
that's not what i would consider the core of open source.
<teepee>
I don't mind people using it, I do mind people not understanding it's not an option for everyone
<JakeSays>
teepee: so if he had said "i understand fusion360 isn't an option for everyone..." that would be ok?
<JakeSays>
by your thinking then I should provide fusion 360 source files along with my .scad files because openscad isn't an option for everyone
<teepee>
I'm not saying what anyone *should do*
<teepee>
I'm just saying that I think it should not be called open source if the "source" is edited with proprietary tools
<JakeSays>
that would eliminate every opensource project that targeted windows using visual studio
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<teepee>
not really as there's mingw which essentially eats the same source code
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<JakeSays>
it doesn't support ms extensions (or at least it didn't)
<JakeSays>
i bought a spool of polycarb filament and i can't even use it.
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<teepee>
why not?
<JakeSays>
i need a better hot end
<JakeSays>
and apparently it needs to be annealed after printing
<teepee>
that's the water soluble stuff? I heard it's difficult to use
<JakeSays>
no it's super strong
<JakeSays>
apparently it's the hardest filament you can get for non-commercial printers
<teepee>
ah, mixed that up. seems like that's PVA
<JakeSays>
yeah
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<Jack228>
you need a full metal hotend as PTFE gets eaten away .. but annealing is new to me
<Jack228>
regarding the open source .. it is not about using the source it is that there is not a single company having all the power over the source
<Scopeuk>
the open source argument has flashbacks to the tivo stuff that inspired the gpl v3 changes. Its awkward in this case there are clear alternatives to fussion 360 which would allow others to reproduce your work (the reproduction of "binaries" from source being the missing step here) . the bigger place to usually see it is with the FPGA projects where
<Scopeuk>
frequently there isn't another option. although Ice storm is making inroads
<Jack228>
AutoDesk can (and already has) change their pricing or make all files invalid if you don't pay .. this goes hand in hand with the cloud and app based character - like streaming music / films (not owning a copy) Also Adobe and Microsoft going into that CloudApp model
<teepee>
yeah, interesting point, that comes almost automatically with the "give others all the same rights you have yourself"
<Scopeuk>
the cloud stuff is a potentiall time bomb
<Jack228>
!word
<Scopeuk>
in my industry we have to be able to support and recreate things that are sometimes 30 to 40 years old
<Scopeuk>
with most software you can build yourself a time capsule, old machines or vm's with old os's and tool chains. this all falls apart if its "on someone else's computer"
<teepee>
ouch, 40 years :)
<teepee>
that would be my Z80 based home computer
<Scopeuk>
aviation, entry into service + 25 years is standard target
<Scopeuk>
in my experience its dec vax but the principal is the same
<Jack228>
.oO( there is a reason why floppy disk are still sold)
<Scopeuk>
some comercial aircraft still have floppy disk drives in the cockpit for data load/software update
<Scopeuk>
granted they area bit odd with usually an arinc network interface on the back rather than something more familiar
<teepee>
yeah, there's always rumors of train stations still using Amiga computers for automation :)
<Scopeuk>
the classic "every business has a 286 in a cupboard" concept
<Scopeuk>
no one knows what it does or how but if its off things don't work
<Jack228>
lots of medical systems run on win95 - Ü
<teepee>
oh, yeah, tell me about that
<teepee>
we support a dentist using an x-ray station that has one of those systems and you can't even change IP addresses without breaking the whole system
<Jack228>
i remember a case where they couldn't find the server hardware - but it was working and remotely accessible .. turns out some one put it in the floor while moving racks .. and never unburied it
<Scopeuk>
there is a story of an old telephone exchange that had a green phosphor crt based machine in a corridor connected to something that no one knew how it was connected or what it was doing but too affraid to turn it off
<JakeSays>
Scopeuk: what are the clear alternatives to fusion 360?
<Scopeuk>
JakeSays I'm not claiming feature parity but there are the likes of freecad and SolveSpace which allow you to achieve the same thing
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<Jack22834>
companies using CATIA e.g. can't switch to something else without enormous costs .. so you are fully dependent
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<Scopeuk>
no dispute, it was in reference to a particular "open source" design which was produced in fusion referenced earlier. moving between tools is not free and has to be considered carefully
<Scopeuk>
thats less of an impact wit ha constrained clean sheet design
<Jck22>
also if using open formats that can be converted into anything
<Jck22>
but if your printer needs *.makerbot files - you are fckd
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<JakeSays>
i just remind myself that there would be no open source w/o closed source
<Jck22>
gets better if you have a huge archive of files
<Jck22>
If we had laws that everything must be available - so not sure that statement is true jakesays
<Jck22>
sure we would probably only call it "software"
<JakeSays>
Jck22: there's no way i could ever support such laws
<teepee>
I'm not sure we need the extreme solution
<JakeSays>
that wouldn't be a solution to anything
<teepee>
I would vote for a partial requirement covering at least a) all software created using public money and b) all software used for education
<Scopeuk>
Those racks look like a scaled up gaming case
<Scopeuk>
There is an element of self service ib. Mainframes only really help ibm sell more mainframes through software availability but resource is resource and all the better if donated
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<InPhase>
dTal: Augmented reality is already provided by printing your OpenSCAD models.
<teepee>
certainly not while the SDKs are incompatible with open source
<teepee>
but then I wonder how that would even be a good idea, typing on a virtual keyboard?
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<InPhase>
Obviously with grab and stretch auto-adjusting parameters.
<InPhase>
Then certain hand gestures for creating primitives, and other hand gestures for boolean ops.
<teepee>
yep, perfect match to script based software :)
<dTal>
Okay to be clear I'm *half* kidding here. But OpenXR is a fully open source API, and Blender has a functioning VR mode.
<teepee>
"vaguely waving left" = difference() ?
<InPhase>
Writing recursive functions with gestures will be only for the true masters of finger motion.
<dTal>
I think it's an interesting question what a VR interface for OpenSCAD could bring to the table.
<teepee>
I'd like to see the anaglyph PR dusted off, that might be actually fun to use
<dTal>
Start with just a normal OpenSCAD window floating in VR, and move forward from there.
<dTal>
It would be interesting, for example, to have all the orthographic perspectives permanently projected onto orthogonal planes, so they can casually be inspected at all times.
<dTal>
Blender and FreeCAD already both ave VR modes.
<dTal>
I suppose a big impediment would be that OpenCSG rendering can't be guaranteed real time for complex models, so everything would have to be rendered before viewing.
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<crazy_imp>
what is the best way to "emboss" / texture a surface? use https://github.com/JustinSDK/dotSCAD#surface to load the texture and glue it to the object (first idea was hull(), but that'll destroy the texture, so maybe "overamplify" the surface and intersect() with something else to get a chunk of the texture?)?
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<JakeSays>
hey are you guys aware of any wood framed house designs implemented in openscad?
<teepee>
I don't think I've seen that, wood furniture, yes but not houses
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<peepsalot>
teepee: do you know anything about CPack? i'm wondering if we should replace much of our release-common.sh with that. there is some support for NSIS even
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<teepee>
I think I heard the name, but never looked at details