teepee changed the topic of #openscad to: OpenSCAD - The Programmers Solid 3D CAD Modeller | This channel is logged! | https://openscad.org/advent-calendar-2021/ | Website: http://www.openscad.org/ | FAQ: https://goo.gl/pcT7y3 | Request features / report bugs: https://goo.gl/lj0JRI | Tutorial: https://bit.ly/37P6z0B | Books: https://bit.ly/3xlLcQq | FOSDEM 2020: https://bit.ly/35xZGy6 | Logs: https://bit.ly/32MfbH5
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<JakeSays> tee esp32's are my new favorite thing
<linext> JakeSays, what are you using them for
<JakeSays> linext: i have one running a mouse trap and two running ws2812b led arrays
<linext> i use them to repeat IR signals over my wifi network to a cable TV set-top box
<linext> for streaming and changing the channel
<teepee> JakeSays: yep, they are very cool. and it will be even cooler once the RISC-V based C3 has caught up
<teepee> just flashing some arduino code to produce a 24 button BLE HID gamepad for testing is quite cool
<teepee> I would not have any "real" device to test that button change I did
<gbruno> [github] t-paul closed issue #4073 (Increasing max_buttons). https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/4073
<gbruno> [github] t-paul pushed 12 modifications (Merge pull request #4074 from openscad/increase-nr-of-buttons
<teepee> hmm, oops, I probably should have waited for the MXE builds to finish :)
<linext> esp32 is sweet
<linext> having wifi + bt built-in with a dual core processor
<teepee> the C3 is not dual core unfortunately
<JakeSays> teepee: i need to set up a real dev environment though. i can't stand arduino's ide
<teepee> which might be the reason for the trouble running "normal" esp32 code
<JakeSays> it's one step above notepad
<teepee> most of my ESPs are just running ESPHome :)
<JakeSays> i do enjoy being able to push OTA updates
<JakeSays> *via wifi
<teepee> yep, that's crazy simple via the ESPHome dashboard
<teepee> integrated into homeassistant
<JakeSays> it's crazy simple with just the esp32
<teepee> I know
<JakeSays> i do wish it used a different rtos though. freertos isn't my favorite
<linext> i never tried OTA updates
<JakeSays> linext: it's very cool
<JakeSays> linext: my clock has a wet server running that hosts a simple page that allows me to select a.bin file and upload it
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<JakeSays> lol *web server
<linext> i also use the esp for a web server
<linext> the interface i use allows me to send HTTP requests
<JakeSays> linext: that's cool!
<JakeSays> linext: lol github thinks your project is half php
<linext> it is partially
<linext> the web page to change the channel is on the internet
<linext> so i can change it wherever
<JakeSays> ah ok. so that site posts to the esp32?
<linext> yes, HTTP changes the channel
<linext> the esp is waiting for a bunch of numbers that represent IR signals
<linext> the web server is on the same LAN, so it can be used to make an nice GUI
<JakeSays> i've thought about building a universal remote with an esp32
<linext> the only tricky thing i found was that only some GPIO pins can be used to send/receive IR
<linext> D5 on the ESP8266 to send, D0 to receive
<linext> oh wait, no D2 to receive
<linext> i also hooked up the receiver to reboot the cable tv box from time to time, if it has an error
<teepee> yeah, the 8266 is quite limited, I really want to go only with esp32 for any new stuff
<linext> at the time it was a cheaper choice
<teepee> yeah, and I just built my last of the 3 PCBs for esp12f
<teepee> but next up, pcb for esp32-c3 :)
<teepee> hoping the issues get resolved soon-ish
<JakeSays> teepee: what's the advantage of the c3 over the vanilla esp32?
<teepee> cheaper, using RISC-V for additional coolness factor
<JakeSays> is risc-v that much better than the lx6?
<teepee> well, and more standard tool chain, although I never had any issues with the xtensa stuff for my little bit of toying with things
<JakeSays> yeah the toolchain bit would be nice.
<teepee> it's an open architecture with lots of support from various vendors so the gcc support should be awesome
<JakeSays> right
<JakeSays> and clang
<teepee> true, not sure about the current state
<JakeSays> qt creator doesn't work well with espressif's toolchain
<JakeSays> man, i really want to start making my own pcb's
<teepee> install kicad and get cracking :)
<linext> i started college back in 2004 learning computer engineering
<linext> pretty difficult stuff compared to CS
<linext> learning the assembly instructions
<JakeSays> i just built a sensor board using breakout components. damn thing is 4x the size it should be
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<teepee> that sounds like a perfect thing to get started
<JakeSays> linext: i cut my teeth on assembly
<teepee> assuming the components are not tiny
<JakeSays> they are
<JakeSays> all smt
<teepee> that's fine, it starts getting complicated with 0402 :)
<teepee> pretty easy even for me not getting younger https://aisler.net/torsten/finished/esp12f-led-controller/board
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<JakeSays> teepee: https://imgur.com/a/JHwmdnv here's the board
<ccox_> (now I wonder what teepee is using the top space for...)
<teepee> what top space?
<teepee> oh, that's where the antenna is
<teepee> JakeSays: I suppose you could leave the sensor on a breakout board and just integrate the other stuff
<ccox_> using a discrete antenna instead of adding it to the pcb?
<teepee> it's on the esp12f pcb
<ccox_> ah, so you're using a prepackaged pcb for that instead of just the chip. ok.
<JakeSays> teepee: that's a lot of smt for my old eyes
<JakeSays> ccox_: esp's come in modules
<JakeSays> at least that's the most common way
<teepee> yeah, you can get the chips separately, but I do only use stuff that has CE stamp
<JakeSays> i think the only people who buy chips are module builders. lol
<ccox_> Ah, I tend to deal with folks who either don't care about certification, or can get their boards certified fairly easily.
<teepee> I'm living near an airport, so I do :)
<JakeSays> i don't care about certification, but then i only build things for myself
<ccox_> (my friends tend to be somewhere on the line between burning man light installation hackers, and engineers for major tech companies in silicon valley, with about an 80% overlap between the groups)
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<JakeSays> ccox_: on the fiber optic thing - i only need to determine when a room darkens. this lux sensor is way way overkill, but i thought it'd be interesting to play with. however i'm considering switching to a simple photo diode
<ccox_> JakeSays: yeah, a simple photo diode and a diffuser (frosted acetate or similar) should work fine, and be WAY simpler to make. You still have to establish thresholds and some hysteresis to prevent oscillation.
<JakeSays> how about transparent PLA for the diffuser
<ccox_> or, just use an LED backward as a quick hack instead of a photodiode/phototransistor. Not super sensitive, but can easily tell when daylight or lamps are present.
<JakeSays> an led backward?
<JakeSays> i'll be damned. i didn't know that worked
<JakeSays> all i need to know is when the lights go off so i can dim a display
<teepee> JakeSays: or get a bag of those LDR things
<JakeSays> teepee: yeah that'd work too
* JakeSays needs more bags of stuff
<teepee> https://smile.amazon.de/Fotowiderstand-Xiuyer-Lichtabhängige-Lichtempfindliche-DIY-Projekte/dp/B083QFYKS2/
<teepee> 100 pieces :)
<teepee> or via ebay from china for 1/10th of the price I suppose
<ccox_> Photo resistor, diode, or transistor will work. But odds are you have a couple discrete LEDs sitting around already :-)
<JakeSays> lol 200 of them for $9.99
<JakeSays> ccox_: that i do
<JakeSays> i also have an ldr somewhere i think
<teepee> and hopefully the analog pin of the 8266 is still free?
<JakeSays> this project is using a seeedstudio xiao
<teepee> ah, samd21?
<JakeSays> yeah
<JakeSays> excellent little devices
<teepee> neat, I like they now have rp2040 ones too
<JakeSays> i have some of those too
<teepee> so much cool stuff, and on the other hand I had to swap 10 mosfets in my last order for other ones due to delivery estimated next year
<teepee> quite a strange world we have
<teepee> and I bought 10 out of a stock of 50 :)
<teepee> what I would like to have is the power controller used on the raspi pico
<JakeSays> which controller is it?
<ccox_> Sigh. I have now received two of the four raspberry pis I ordered in December.
<JakeSays> i've been buying the pi zero 2w
<teepee> input range 1.8V - 5.5V / output fixed 3.3V
<JakeSays> you can't get them?
<teepee> no idea, I did not even try
<JakeSays> oh
<teepee> but that's an extremely useful range, you can have 2 or 3 nicd cells, or just use USB, that chip eats anything in a sensible range
<JakeSays> yeah that is handy
<JakeSays> i dont remember which power chip i'm using on this sensor controller
<teepee> for the board linked above which is targeting an input of 5V, I'm just using that 78xx or whatever the name is
<teepee> but that's pretty much ebay only
<ccox_> A linear regulator! Are you a caveman? (of course, that was about all we had when I was doing robotics in the 80s)
<teepee> ht7833
<JakeSays> i havent bought from ebay in quite a while. i'm addicted to amazon's fast shipping
<teepee> yes, but with very low quiescent current
<teepee> it should allow pretty decent deep sleep too, I have not tried that yet though
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<JakeSays> teepee: i backed a kickstarter that is a board with an esp32 and an rp2040
<JakeSays> it's an odd board
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<linext> i was selling rp2040 when they first came out
<linext> i bought a bunch from microcenter and resold them on ebay
<JakeSays> linext: was it profitable?
<linext> i made about $5 for each one sold
<linext> sold maybe 25 total
<linext> so about $100
<JakeSays> should've done that with pi 4's. lol
<linext> microcenter has good deals once in a while to get people into the store
<peeps[zen]> teepee: thanks for doing all the builds. the 64bit version succeeded in uploading artifacts, that's great
<peeps[zen]> unfortunately it seems that mimalloc on mingw is all kinds of messed up
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<peeps[zen]> i can't get any terminal output from it on windows, running from cmd.exe, powershell, or even git bash shell
<JakeSays> "In 1988, I tried LEDs as sunlight detectors. They worked so well that the first homemade LED sun photometer I began using on Feb. 5, 1990, is still in use today." - cool
<peeps[zen]> i can with wine though, but the verbose messages basically say it fails to redirect malloc
<peeps[zen]> i guess i'm gonna open a bunch more tickets for mimalloc
<teepee> quite strange, it looked like they have different platforms covered quite well
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<peeps[zen]> idk, seems like if you build for windows they only expect you to use VS
<JakeSays> i'm curious as to why mimalloc was chosen
<peeps[zen]> mainly because it performed best (on linux) out of those tested
<JakeSays> that's a pretty good reason
<JakeSays> i'm currently fighting an issue with chrome's allocator.
<peeps[zen]> so, how do i debug a mxe/mingw-built exe for windows, running in wine? do i need the mxe gdb package? does that also run under wine?
<teepee> I think there's also a wine-gdb but I've never tried using any debug for wine
<JakeSays> can openscad even be built using msvc?
<peeps[zen]> yes
<peeps[zen]> rebuilding all my mxe packages with gcc11 instead of gcc7. just saw that the mingw-x-build-dependencies script is outdated with the gcc plugin it uses
<peeps[zen]> doubt it will fix anything... but at least it should then match with the docker images.
<teepee> 32 bit images pushed
<teepee> brb, need to reboot, my notebook gets old, sometimes forgets there's a bluetooth controller
<teepee> yay bluetooth
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<JakeSays> the only thing i wish the esp32 had was an lte modem. lol
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<teepee> oi!
<teepee> who k-lined the whole matrix bridge?
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<JakeSays> would it be an expensive operation to expose the bounding box of children()?
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<JakeSays> ccox_: so now i want to do experiments using LED's for communication
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<JakeSays> like i2c over optical, etc
<ccox_> Jake - eh, you can, in several interesting modes.
<ccox_> But, maybe, finish what you're working on first?
<JakeSays> lol my adhd isn't that bad
<ccox_> .......
<JakeSays> your last comment seemed odd
<ccox_> "my adhd isn't that bad"... said every ahdh patient in denial.
<ccox_> s/ahdh/adhd/
<JakeSays> that's irrelevant
<ccox_> uh, huh. And denial is just a river.
<ccox_> (of course, about 80% of the engineers and scientists I know qualify as ADHD)
<JakeSays> this is a hobby project. i've been working on it for 7 years. this is the fourth iteration.
<JakeSays> so in what order i do things is irrelevant
<ccox_> ok.
<JakeSays> well, the bottom line is what i finish when is none of your business. please don't make such suggestions.
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<J22> JakeSays afaik bounding box uses several projections  so  this is expensive
<J22> Pens anyone ? https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/126530-plaited-pen   (old inefficient script took 4h to render)
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<Scopeuk> J22 they are quite pretty
<J22> thanks, glad you like them
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<JakeSays> J22: those pens are cool!
<J22> Ü ..  more to come the next days
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<JakeSays> J22: couldn't the bounding box be calculated while previewing/rendering?
<teepee> while preview no
<teepee> if you don't need a permanent solution, there's a branch that can calculate bounding box directly
<JakeSays> is that the render function branch?
<teepee> but it's still work in progress and will likely change
<teepee> yes
<JakeSays> yeah i'm using it
<J22> why do i need a bounding box at all?
<teepee> when using random, when importing stuff, ...
<JakeSays> J22: for placing things
<J22> yes sure but the box is not giving you dimensions to work with
<JakeSays> sure it is
<JakeSays> J22: no. not that.
<JakeSays> J22: there's a branch that has render() implemented as a function. it returns the bounding box, size, and points
<peeps[zen]> teepee: do you think it would cause problems that we use the "static" mxe toolchain, but are building mimalloc as shared?
<teepee> hmm, good question, I don't know what the actual differences are other than just the build flags used
<J22> JakeSays sounds pretty cool .. hope we will see this within the master (anytime)
<JakeSays> J22: yeah it's handy for sure, but does need a little work
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<Guest7738> kll-b
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<JakeSays> teepee: hmm. maybe this little board is a good place to start designing pcb's. looking at the breakouts i'm using, they're pretty simple
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<teepee> JakeSays: I started with a very simple mosfet driver board https://aisler.net/torsten/finished/mosfet-led-driver/board
<JakeSays> very cool
<JakeSays> i'm going to use one of those pcba services
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<teepee> I did not try those yet, but people in #reprap.de have for adding all the SMD stuff including the ESP
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<JakeSays> they look awfully convenient
<veverak> oh, people here also started with PCBs? :)
<JakeSays> especially with these old eyes
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<teepee> started? no :)
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<veverak> ah :)
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<teepee> trying to continue, or update
<JakeSays> whats with all these eda companies only supporting windows. lol
<teepee> that's the beauty of aisler, they directly accept kicad files
<teepee> but I've used jlcpcb some time ago too and the gerbers are easy to generate too
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<JakeSays> i think there's a pcba service about an hour from me.
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<JakeSays> it'd cost more but i can get 24hr turn-around for small orders
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<teepee> wow, that's fast, and still affordable?
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<JakeSays> teepee: iirc yeah
<JakeSays> it's been ~40 years since i designed a pcb
<InPhase> JakeSays: Pricing?
<JakeSays> InPhase: for the pcba company?
<InPhase> Yeah.
<InPhase> Just trying to mentally track what price ranges these are.
<JakeSays> i dont remember. it was 2 years ago when I was looking at them
<InPhase> Ok.
<JakeSays> i just recall them being reasonable
<InPhase> Historically I mostly stuck with making circuits work without ordering boards, but it seems turnarounds and price points have been continually plummeting for getting proper pcbs produced.
<JakeSays> my eyes/hands/patience aren't conducive for making my own boards
<InPhase> Prototype boards aren't too hard to work with if all your parts line up to the right spacing, but are definitely not as nice. The turnaround time is zero, but you also have to be more attentive in layout.
<JakeSays> yup
<JakeSays> the parts on this board could easily fit on a raspberry pi zero hat
<Scopeuk> I've only ever done pcb and then assemble myself
<Scopeuk> still don't like working with two pin smd's
<JakeSays> huh. so flatpak requires a reboot after install. wtf
<sublim8> Hello everyone. About better integrating the data = render() feature. I was thinking about the module as function concept. If I remember correctly, there were some conversations about openscad v2 specs floating around online addressing that. I can't seem to find them. Cay anyone point me to them? I'm particularly interested in any proposed syntax.
<teepee> sublim8: the original suggestion is https://github.com/doug-moen/openscad2/
<sublim8> thanks :)
<teepee> with the top level file OpenSCADbis.md being a more limited approach and the other rfc the more extensive older proposal
<teepee> it probably makes sense to look at both
<sublim8> will do
<JakeSays> i like some of those openscad2 ideas
<JakeSays> huh. it was rejected
<sublim8> yup
<JakeSays> and became curv? interesting
<teepee> it was not rejected
<teepee> a number of things are already implemented
<JakeSays> the readme said it was
<teepee> well, it's not the case, it just does not happen unless someone does the work
<teepee> there's always misleading discussions on the mailing list, but it's the internet, not everyone knows what's going on
<JakeSays> right
<teepee> so people claim things like "openscad is not supposed to have support for measurements"
<sublim8> it's a bit chaotic indeed
<JakeSays> does it have support for measurements?
<teepee> no, but it would be very welcome and there's even a couple of hundred $ bounty on it
<JakeSays> yes it would
<teepee> I even said on the mailing list, I'll double that when someone decides to take it on
<sublim8> What kind of measurements? On image?
<sublim8> On the preview?
<teepee> on whatever works, I suppose render would be easier
<teepee> if it works for both, even better
<JakeSays> teepee: why would it be easier?
<teepee> because you have actual vertices to check
<teepee> preview does not have that in the general case
<JakeSays> how does preview work?
<Scopeuk> the short version is it fakes it in 2d
<teepee> yeah, clever redrawing tricks
<teepee> meaning the geometry does not actually be calculated
<JakeSays> so preview and render use two different rendering engines?
<teepee> yep
<sublim8> you can easily get the coordinates under mouse if you have a depth buffer.
<sublim8> even in preview
<teepee> there's some ways to do that, the jump-to-source uses a special id-to-color-mapping renderer for thatr
<JakeSays> the curv language seems to be overly complicated
<sublim8> yeap
<JakeSays> lots of >>'s
<sublim8> I know how to do that easily using the depth buffer. It's something you frequently do in OpenGL and DX.
<JakeSays> is there a depth buffer in preview?
<sublim8> well it should be easy to add one
<sublim8> if there isn't one
<teepee> I suppose the question is how to detect edges and so on but there might be render options for that
<teepee> yes, the preview only works using depth buffer and stencils I think
<teepee> but I don't know the actual code
<sublim8> I am familiar with opengl. I'll take a crack at it when I have the time.
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<teepee> the first has some discussion on options/feature with references how other apps are doing it
<sublim8> Thanks
<sublim8> If you had to choose one which one would you choose? Being able to select only vertices for measurements or being able to select any arbitrary pixel but not being able to snap exactly to a vertex?
<sublim8> I know we would like both.
<InPhase> sublim8: I think it's proper to think of the openscad2 proposal as a set of thoughts worth considering when implementing things from it, rather than a requirements sheet.
<teepee> hard to say, but I image snap would be very useful
<sublim8> yup and yup
<InPhase> sublim8: Some good thought went into it, but it's also dated, and things have changed beneath its feet a little since then, and other ideas have emerged since then. So it's to be expected that even things that sample pieces from it will differ somewhat.
<sublim8> InPhase: I noticed as much.
<InPhase> *thumbsup*
<J22> just wonder .. would it be cool if the scad file could be included into the 3mf meta data folder ?
<InPhase> J22: What would you want to do with a scad file that includes a giant library?
<InPhase> J22: Or more complicatedly, uses but does not include.
<InPhase> I think it might be one of those clever ideas that only works right some of the time.
<J22> it is only a few kb  and you had the source with the geometry  - but sure there is probably nobody looking into 3mf files
<J22> it would be a bit like slicer store their setting with the gcode
<J22> so scad would need to check if an importing 3mf contains an scad scipt
<J22> well probably including a thumbnail would be  more usefull
<JakeSays> it would be nice to be able to distribute a 3mf file with all of the .scad files needed to render.
<JakeSays> that would make dealing with dependencies easier
<J22> i mean at least you can open them with zip/7zip and add those files manually
<InPhase> It would need to be a configuration option to even be considered.
<InPhase> BOSL2 for example is 2.4MB That's a lot to add.
<InPhase> If it becomes "only add the parts that are actually used", then you don't have a reproduction.
<InPhase> And it is only useful if there is a way to use it that makes sense once there are many files bundled in each one.
<InPhase> So it gets pretty involved, and therefore needs some good example use cases.
<JakeSays> InPhase: it would be include only what's used.
<JakeSays> at least that's what i'd want
<JakeSays> teepee: hmm. i think i'll start with a raspi pico board/schematic and just add to it
<teepee> JakeSays: sounds like a good strategy, using something that works and modifying
<teepee> I've looked at a number of other boards too before making that esp board
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<JakeSays> actually i think i'll go with an adafruit feather as the starter
<JakeSays> i thought flatpak was as convenient as appimage
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<teepee> it should be, even though the underlying technology is quite different