<random-jellyfish>
So I'm working on an HDL simulator and I want to leverage the image save/reload functionality of common lisp. In the hardware industry it can be very useful to save the state of a simulation and then run different other simulations starting from that state. Because sometimes simulations are very slow and it can a few hours just to do the
<random-jellyfish>
configuration of a chip model for example. So it's better to run that simulation once, save the image and then reload it and continue from there with different scenarios. But now I have a dilemma: should I save the simulation log messages in the heap or write them to a text file and restore the file descriptor when I reload the image? I would
<random-jellyfish>
rather save them to ram because then simulations are much faster but the log can grow very large. Do common lisp implementations save large heaps to the hard drive at run time? What would be the best way to store log messages in situations like this?
<Shinmera>
I'm not aware of a lisp implementation that can dump an image without terminating the process.
<Shinmera>
You also similarly need to terminate all threads, file descriptors, etc. and restore them on start yourself.
<random-jellyfish>
terminating the process is not a problem, I'm okay with that
<random-jellyfish>
the simulations will be single threaded
<random-jellyfish>
I was just wondering if I can avoid terminating the log file descriptor by saving the text in the heap instead of writing it to a file
<random-jellyfish>
the only issue is that it can grow very large, gigabytes or even more
<Shinmera>
I guess. The problem will be GC pressure resulting from that. SBCL for instance has a hard heap size limit that is configured on startup.
<Shinmera>
It can't (currently) dynamically grow that limit on demand.
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<random-jellyfish>
I see, I guess that leaves me with restoring the file descriptor...it's not that big of a pain if I think about it
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<Shinmera>
If the log is append-only you could probably do things in a pretty not-terrible way though by just lazily managing the output FD.
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<dnhester>
Hi, what's the best way to loop over a list of strings add some other strings at for each one and concatenate all of them in the end? I can do a regular loop with append and concatenate, I'm just wondering about a lisp way of doing it that's efficient and not just another language written in lisp...
<random-jellyfish>
dnhester you want to join them with a separator?
<beach>
dnhester: (loop for string in strings collect string collect some-other-string)
<dnhester>
I want to add a new line before, then the string, then some computed string based on the string itself, then a comma
<dnhester>
beach thanks will try it now
<beach>
So (loop for string in strings collect (format nil "~%") collect string collect (compute-string string) collect ",")
<dnhester>
it's the collect which get's me, I'm not used to it, about to read the docs about it
<beach>
It just accumulates things until the loop is finished.
<dnhester>
beach thanks again
<beach>
Sure.
<dnhester>
beach so in the end it'll be a list where every time we use collect it just adds an item to the list?
<beach>
Correct.
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<dnhester>
got it, now it makes sense, thanks, it looked like magic to me beforehand. If I know the total number of elemenets in the final list, will it make it more efficient because it's like an array? or is it some linked list representation where adding has O(1)
<beach>
It would typically use an O(1) technique for the accumulation.
<beach>
But you should not probably not be concerned with performance at this point.
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<dnhester>
how can I pass to `(concatenate 'string (list "a" "b" "c"))` I have the list, but I don't know how to pass it as values, I googled destructuring but couldn't find an answer
<beach>
(apply #'concatenate 'string <the-list>)
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<dnhester>
beach ah thanks, is there no other way to break up the list into pass in values?
<dnhester>
or is that the normal way?
<beach>
This is the normal way.
<dnhester>
ok, good to know, I thought I was missing some syntax, thanks!
<beach>
Pleasure.
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<beach>
dnhester: In the context of a macro, you can use the backquote notation to build the argument list at compile time, as in `(concatenate 'list ,@<the-list>), but then we are talking about building forms to evaluate rather than creating data from other data.
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<beach>
dnhester: But it sounds like your problem is better solved with a string stream.
<beach>
dnhester: Then you can use output functions like FORMAT to build your string, rather than first building a list of strings and then applying CONCATENATE to that list.
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<dnhester>
beach Colleen thanks, I'm just seeing your message, not sure why my IRC client keeps randomly disconnecting. Will look into those now
<beach>
Pleasure.
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<contrapunctus>
dnhester: Colleen is a bot.
<dnhester>
beach ok I just read the docs for the WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING and for some reason I just don't understand what it says and how it relates to my question. Ok, I just re-read it, I think from the description I understood something but then the example they provide doesn't really help me. This is what I'm understanding, with-output-to-string will
<dnhester>
execute a series of statements and each of their results is appended to the variable declared as the first parameter of the macro. Is that correct? Why is there an `s` in the example `(with-output-to-string (s fstr)`
<dnhester>
contrapunctus haha thanks for letting me know hahahaha
<dnhester>
sorry I wrote too many questions in one line, I just wrote it and read again and continued writing...
<beach>
dnhester: You have to execute output forms like FORMAT.
<beach>
dnhester: The s is a stream variable to be used with the output forms.
<beach>
Er, let me check the page again, so I don't get the order wrong...
<beach>
Right, so just do things like (with-output-to-string (stream) (format stream "hello"))
<dnhester>
beach ok, so output forms like format meaning functions that will write to a stream?
<beach>
Yes. I believe I used the word output functions.
<dnhester>
beach so the s is not a variable that I'm providing to the macro, rather it's a name for creating a stream variable that I will use for all the output functions. Is that correct?
<beach>
dnhester: It is a symbol that is not evaluated, and used by the macro WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING to bind to a stream that you can use in the body of the macro.
<dnhester>
beach yeah I just didn't know that was the definition of output functions, functions that write to a stream
<beach>
So the expansion of (with-output-to-string (stream) ...) is something like (let ((stream <create-a-string-stream>)) ... )
<dnhester>
beach ok thanks, that was very educational, I feel like my understanding of this will help me in dealing with other things as well
<beach>
dnhester: Maybe I forgot to mention #clschool. It seems you lack some fundamental knowledge of Common Lisp, and in #clschool there are people who hang out to help, and who are not present here.
<dnhester>
ok thanks, I've read or gone through different guides and tutorials, but things were very much focused on how to do things without really explaining how things work and intricacies of the language, will try to ask questions in #clschool in the future, thanks!
<dnhester>
beach Is there a good book that will focus on learning lisp in proper depth and not just introduce the language on how to do basic things? Practical Common Lisp and the Lisp Cookbook I feel don't really provide those thorough explanations that I'm lacking
<dnhester>
beach I've been reading the hyper spec but there's a lot in the hyperspec itself that I just don't understand. Like for example here http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_out_.htm it lists "string---a string that has a fill pointer. " as the third argument but I don't see it in the signature above. Why is that and how would that
<ixelp>
CLHS: Macro WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING
<dnhester>
work? is that the `fstr` from the example? Why is it not in the signature? or what am I missing?
<dnhester>
Maybe I should ask these questions in #clschool , will do it now
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<beach>
dnhester: The STRING is mentioned as the result of evaluating STRING-FORM.
<beach>
dnhester: WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING is a macro so it takes unevaluated forms as its arguments.
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<dnhester>
beach got it, thanks!
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