Inline has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
dmgk has joined #commonlisp
Inline has joined #commonlisp
aartaka has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
aartaka has joined #commonlisp
MichaelRaskin has joined #commonlisp
shka has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
shka has joined #commonlisp
Inline has quit [Quit: Leaving]
mrcom has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
frgo has joined #commonlisp
gxt has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
anticomputer has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ttree has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
anticomputer has joined #commonlisp
gxt has joined #commonlisp
dlowe has joined #commonlisp
frgo has quit []
<jackdaniel>
speed coding with the little on my lap dictating requirements: turtleware.eu/static/paste/f6c7bb6b8f32036911b3394f89271b9d8bfaf852-hexs.webm, turtleware.eu/static/paste/82a62309ff3aa638f2490b4e38862f6d284a92a5-hexagonal.lisp :)
gxt has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
gxt has joined #commonlisp
random-nick has joined #commonlisp
attila_lendvai has joined #commonlisp
Inline has joined #commonlisp
attila_lendvai has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
dlowe has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
shka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
pjb has joined #commonlisp
aartaka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
aartaka has joined #commonlisp
dlowe has joined #commonlisp
Inline has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
amb007 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
azimut has joined #commonlisp
amb007 has joined #commonlisp
anticomputer_ has joined #commonlisp
anticomputer has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
Inline has joined #commonlisp
<hayley>
My younger brother once felt the need to beta test some code I wrote to learn presentations. Had to install an X server, SBCL, Quicklisp and all that on my mum's Windows laptop so I could get back to work.
<hayley>
It just presented and accepted square objects of random colours; the hexagon grid looks much more entertaining.
tyson2 has joined #commonlisp
attila_lendvai has joined #commonlisp
cage has joined #commonlisp
Lycurgus has joined #commonlisp
occ has joined #commonlisp
dlowe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
attila_lendvai has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
dlowe has joined #commonlisp
Nilby has joined #commonlisp
sedzcat has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
anticomputer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
anticomputer has joined #commonlisp
maddo has joined #commonlisp
<maddo>
hello
<beach>
Hello maddo.
<beach>
maddo: Are you new here? I don't recognize your nick.
<maddo>
yes I'm new
<beach>
Great! Welcome!
<maddo>
Wanted to ask you guys a question. I'm a med school student who is aobut to graduate. Long time emacs user and I'll have to write my thesis in a few months
qhong has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
qhong_ has joined #commonlisp
<maddo>
I am frankly disgusted by python and all its ecosystem (had to use it as a hobby for vapoursynth, never enjoyed the process)
tyson2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<maddo>
would common lisp be a valid python/R/julia alternative for a complete common lisp beginner with decent understanding of elisp?
<Inline>
no
<Inline>
you better use racket maybe
<Inline>
that's not common-lisp it's scheme tho
<beach>
Inline: What is your reason for the "no"?
<maddo>
my scheme experience is limited to guile and guix
<beach>
maddo: I think it depends on what you want to do with it.
<Inline>
beach: i think he is into pleasant gui experience, if i'm not mistaken
<Inline>
right
<beach>
Inline: What makes you think maddo is a "he"?
<Inline>
nothing
<Inline>
beach: i think IT is into pleasant gui experience, if i'm not mistaken
<Inline>
i didn't have a good experience mixing common-lisp with emacs anyway
<beach>
Inline: So you don't use SLIME?
<Inline>
no
<beach>
Wow, what do you do instead?
<Inline>
i only use mcclim from time to time
<Inline>
with clim-listener and climacs
<beach>
Fair enough.
<beach>
maddo: So if you can tell us what you plan to do with it, we can give more precise advice.
<maddo>
not really, I don't need a fancy GUI (tbh if I could do everything inside emacs it'd be preferable). I don't need to so advanced things or whatever
<beach>
You can use Common Lisp from Emacs/SLIME. But Common Lisp is preferable to Emacs Lisp.
<maddo>
(I still need to meet the professor to reach an agreement about the topic, but 90% probability it would mainly have to be some kind of statistic/graphs etc, so not really advanced stuff)
<maddo>
my colleagues have recommended STATA, which personally I find horrible, wondering the web I found R and python mostly, with julia being the new shiny thing
<maddo>
also I am, indeed, a "he"
<maddo>
I don't think my fullname is cloaked on IRC, since I also use it for some official things
<beach>
I should not attempt to give any more advice. Others here know more about the alternatives you are listing, and about statistics and graphs.
<pve>
maddo: Would learning a new language and tools delay your graduation?
<maddo>
depends, probably no unless there is some really esoteric stuff I need to worry about. Since it's an experimental thesis, I'll need to collect data/evidences first and that will take months, I graduate next year
<maddo>
even my appointment to discuss the specifics of the topic will happen next month
<pve>
alright
occ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
<beach>
maddo: You may have to spend some time with additional tools and libraries for statistics and graph drawing.
dlowe has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<Nilby>
if your personality is such that you like lisp, it might be better to get into it early in your career, when you can evade the doom spiral, rather than later, when you may never return from it
<maddo>
which is exactly why I'm asking now that I'm not doing the writing and I can focus more on the tooling
Lycurgus has quit [Quit: Exeunt: personae.ai-integration.biz]
<beach>
Certainly, if you decide to do Common Lisp, then there will be people around to help you.
<random-nick>
elisp can be quite different or quite similar to cl, depending on the style of the elisp code
<random-nick>
since a good part of standard cl macros and functions are available in elisp in the cl package, even things like loop iirc
amb007 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<random-nick>
so if you might be familiar with a lot of cl things if you came across them in emacs
amb007 has joined #commonlisp
dlowe has joined #commonlisp
aartaka has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
aartaka has joined #commonlisp
sedzcat has joined #commonlisp
ldb has joined #commonlisp
<ldb>
I think CL is as easy to use as python
<ldb>
for people who have a open mind to accept a program language that nobody else around are using.
<ldb>
for R/julia replacement, well, maybe, someone may able to use Maxima or FriCAS to replace them, but that's largely dependent on the specific tasks.
<ldb>
and how much programming skill they have to implement domain specific knowledge
gxt has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
gxt has joined #commonlisp
aartaka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
<ldb>
so, maddo, I think your colleagues recommended STATA because they don't want to spend time figure out which plotting/charting library to use. Are you prepared to either 1) choose one from the existng native CL libaries, though it might not have the killer feature to make fancy graphs 2) use external tools, e.g. gnuplot 3) make your own by spending some time to learn how to generate PNG, PDF stuff which are not likely to be related to
<ldb>
your major.
<maddo>
definitely not 3, but 1 and 2 sound feasible to me
<MichaelRaskin>
Gnuplot is pretty OK for feeding it data from a Common Lisp wrapper, yeah
<ldb>
gnuplot is good, the LaTeX TiKz is also popular and with very versatile ecosystems and can do more crazy things.
<MichaelRaskin>
(Not sure I really like TikZ for anything, I just go all the way and take Asymptote when I want this level of flexibility in drawing-oriented things; I have generated GraphViz code, Asymptote code, and OpenSCAD code from Common Lisp for some stuff)
<beach>
phoe: As I recall, you worked on a spell checker. How far did you get?
Fare has joined #commonlisp
<ldb>
what, a spell checker?
<beach>
Yes. What about it?
<ldb>
Does that have special features or just the plain one that checks words against a dictionary?
<beach>
I don't remember what phoe ended up doing, but I would like it to have additional information such as part of speech, verb tense, singular/plural, etc., so that it could be used in a grammar checker, yet to be written of course.
rgherdt has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<phoe>
ldb: (ql:quickload :spell) or (ql:quickload :spell/simple), the latter occupies less RAM since both load the whole dictionary into memory but the latter does not have any meanings associated with words
<phoe>
...oh wait, whoops, you weren't asking, sorry
<phoe>
good, then the job is already sort of done - with most of it by you in the initial commit
igemnace has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
* beach
is embarrassed.
drainpipe has joined #commonlisp
<mfiano>
:)
drainpipe has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
<beach>
Why don't I have that library on my computer? Only on GitHub!
<mfiano>
Maybe your mind thought that it was something phoe wrote and your PR'd, so you deleted it once it was merged? :D
aartaka has joined #commonlisp
<mfiano>
s/your/you/
<beach>
Hmm.
* beach
never deletes anything, at least not deliberately.
<phoe>
beach: not a big problem since one git clone is enough to fix this
_cymew_ has joined #commonlisp
* ldb
somedays ago I typed mv as rm and ended up rm'ing my ~/
<ldb>
if you ask how that ended up, my 60GB music CD files saved most of my important files
<beach>
phoe: Indeed.
ldb has quit [Quit: ERC 5.4 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 28.1)]
jeosol has joined #commonlisp
waleee has joined #commonlisp
sedzcat has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
null- has joined #commonlisp
sedzcat has joined #commonlisp
Josh_2 has joined #commonlisp
<beach>
Hey, this is great! Loading the FASL takes only a second or so. So I can already incorporate the spell checker into Second Climacs.
<beach>
I didn't mean "incorporate". I meant, I can use the library to check the spelling of comments and plain text.
Josh_2 has quit [Quit: Gotta go fast!]
karlosz has joined #commonlisp
Josh_2 has joined #commonlisp
<phoe>
beach: :D
<phoe>
yes, compilation takes the longest because of creating and filling and possibly rehashing the hash table
<phoe>
I wonder if it could be made quicker by creating the hash table with an appropriate :hash-table-size, hmm
<beach>
Yes, I see.
<phoe>
would probably be the first time I'd use that parameter
<phoe>
but, yes, once it's compiled then loading the FASL should be much quicker
<beach>
I don't think it matters much. Once it's compiled, it's fine.
<phoe>
beach: nice
sedzcat has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
<phoe>
well then, it's a gift from you in the past, have fun using it :D
<phoe>
the paragraph API is probably not the best since it accepts a string; maybe you can optimize it by using the word lookup function and then doing the standard stuff: optimize for speed, inilining the accessor, blah blah
<beach>
Heh, thanks!
<beach>
I think it will be plenty fast for Second Climacs.
aartaka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
anticomputer has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<beach>
Anyway, time to go fix dinner for my (admittedly small) family. I'll be back tomorrow.
anticomputer has joined #commonlisp
aartaka has joined #commonlisp
amb007 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
amb007 has joined #commonlisp
aartaka has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
aartaka has joined #commonlisp
aartaka has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
aartaka has joined #commonlisp
<phoe>
beach: see you tomorrow
aartaka has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
aartaka has joined #commonlisp
prokhor has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
frgo has joined #commonlisp
tyson2 has joined #commonlisp
Josh_2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
aartaka has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
aartaka has joined #commonlisp
aartaka has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
frgo has quit []
aartaka has joined #commonlisp
Josh_2 has joined #commonlisp
frgo has joined #commonlisp
morganw has joined #commonlisp
Josh_2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<jcowan>
What is the effect of a top-level assignment to an unbound variable, such as (setf foo 32)? Is it effectively become dynamically bound?
<jcowan>
s/become
aartaka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
aartaka has joined #commonlisp
luna-is-here has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<jackdaniel>
it is an undefined behavior
<jackdaniel>
usually the implementation will create a special variable with that name
<jackdaniel>
and assign to it a value (so it will 'effectively become dynamically bound'
<mfiano>
SBCL will also emit a warning, but really, anything goes.
<mfiano>
"don't do it"
luna-is-here has joined #commonlisp
McParen has joined #commonlisp
xaltsc has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.7.1]
Josh_2 has joined #commonlisp
amb007 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
Josh_2 has quit [Quit: Gotta go fast!]
maddo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
amb007 has joined #commonlisp
gxt has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
gxt has joined #commonlisp
prxq_ has joined #commonlisp
ttree has joined #commonlisp
prxq has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
cage has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 28.2]
amb007 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
amb007 has joined #commonlisp
Fare has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
aartaka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
McParen has left #commonlisp [#commonlisp]
Lycurgus has joined #commonlisp
null- has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
zyni-moe has joined #commonlisp
zyni-moe has quit [Quit: died]
<phoe>
jackdaniel: I actually wonder about the "special" part
<phoe>
AFAIK SBCL creates an "undefined" variable, which is global/lexical/shadowable and does not exhibit dynamic behavior
<phoe>
as in, on all implementations I can quickly check, (progn (setf foo 42) (defun bar () foo) (defun baz () (let ((foo 24)) (baz))) (bar)) ;=> 42