<pjb>
But I think we can expect that in all implementations.
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<NotThatRPG>
phoe: I think that's conforming -- call-next-method is only invoked inside around methods. I was asking if I could "smuggle it out" by return a closure that invoked it. I don't *think* that's legit, but I would have to chase a whole lot of pointers around inside the CLHS to figure out....
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<Bike>
i think that is legit. it has indefinite extent, after all. that last clause confuses things though.
<taichi>
I am probably doing this wrong, but is there an easy way to locally declare `sb-cover:store-coverage-data' over an asdf:load-system. It seems the information gets dropped somewhere along the way
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<mariari>
nevermind it seems declaim dynamically scopes it correctly, I let the warning by SBCL mislead me
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<Shinmera>
24 hours until Kandria releases. Woop.
* scymtym
keeps fingers crossed
<louis77>
exciting!
* splittist
brushes up on his German so he can purchase directly from the Kandria site
<Shinmera>
Oh, does the xsolla plugin switch to german based on your IP or something? That's annoying.
<splittist>
Yes. It's in good company (Google and Apple do the same).
<Alfr>
Shinmera, sorry, I missed yesterday; but all the best anyway.
<Shinmera>
Thanks!
<mfiano>
:nailbite:
<mfiano>
Good luck and congrats again!
<Catie>
I am very excited
<mfiano>
Yes, we had a number of people that RSVP'd that never showed up. I know a couple people were sick, and dbotton, what a very nice guy. He had his 3rd grandson and conferenced in on his way there or something.
<louis77>
I assume the jitsi session wasn't recorded?
<Shinmera>
I don't think so, but I'll have a stream on Twitch tomorrow if you want to ask questions live.
<phoe>
Shinmera: also huge congrats from my side, a person belonging to the sick and coughing club
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<phoe>
(at the moment)
<Shinmera>
Get well soon!
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<beach>
Shinmera: I'll buy you dinner in Amsterdam.
<Shinmera>
Oh my :)
<mfiano>
I forgot to mention that. He told me that when I invited him :)
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<jeosol>
Shinmera: Good with your lunch and wishing you great success!!!
<phoe>
a launch lunch?
<edgar-rft>
with astronaut food
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<mfiano>
Yes I hope you successfully fill that gut with the finest food one can dine on.
<Shinmera>
Eh, I'll probably just eat some spaghetti or something
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<jeosol>
phoe: Thanks for catching that and correcting me. I just woke up and brain not fully functioning
<jeosol>
I will resend the message
<jeosol>
Shinmera: Good with your launch and wishing you great success!!!
<Shinmera>
Thanks
<jeosol>
I changed where I sleep in years (from hard to soft surface) and I (and brain) seemed to overslept
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<jeosol>
Shinmera: This should serve as encourage (myself included) for those trying to deploy products that primarily use CL
<Shinmera>
let's hope it does, then.
<jeosol>
Takes a lot of dedication and commitment, but achievable
<jeosol>
But there is the money/sale side of things
<Shinmera>
There unfortunately is, yes.
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<kenran>
hey everyone. this might be a stupid question, as I'm not really familiar at all with (common) lisp in this regard, just evaluating if it might be a good fit: is it possible (with, say, sbcl) to build a binary, and have it "be" a REPL at the same time, so that I can interact and change the running program by calling the code it was written in/with?
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<kenran>
sorry if this doesn't make sense. I'm thinking of something like emacs, where I can evaluate elisp and change the running editor instance by interacting with its own code base, but emacs is not written entirely in elisp. would building something that behaves this way be simpler or harder (assuming it's possible) if the whole program were written in the lisp itself?
<kenran>
and (again, assuming it even makes sense) could you point me to some terminology I could google or some resources I could read to learn about this?
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<beach>
kenran: Sure, that is entirely possible. You just need to create a binary with your application being able to call EVAL.
<mfiano>
they left
<mfiano>
IRC continues to amaze me.
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<Catie>
I have to imagine it was some sort of connection error
<beach>
kenran: Sure, that is entirely possible. You just need to create a binary with your application being able to call EVAL.
<kenran>
beach: thanks, I disconnected for a second there.
<kenran>
I just remembered there's also a window manager and the nyxt browser which both seem to work this way as well
<mfiano>
Any application can be interactive with Common Lisp. It is designed for incremental development.
<Catie>
If you want to interact with the image using Emacs, Swank or Slynk (depending on whether you're using Slime or Sly) are gonna be your best friend
<kenran>
Catie: I was going to try and do a little proof of concept editor in common lisp to learn a bit of the language and ncurses, and having evaluation of common lisp code from inside the editor itself would be an awesome piece :)
<kenran>
I already got sly (with slynk, I suppose) installed, and now I have to figure out how to actually write common lisp "projects" :) but the cookbook seems like a great resource.
<Catie>
Ah gotcha, then yeah as long as you can call EVAL the world is your oyster
<kenran>
quicklisp and asdf look a bit "foreign" to me, coming from other languages, but I guess that'll not be a hurdle
<Catie>
It's well worth learning about both of them, they'll make your life quite a bit easier
<kenran>
Thanks for the input everyone. I've done the bootstrapping like two years ago, but never had the time to dive into it further up until now, so everything I had working is probably "new" to me again
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<kenran>
Oh: the "create a binary" part is of course something that's optional at the start. I guess that makes it even easier, rather than harder, right?
<phoe>
yes
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<phoe>
you should be able to open up Lisp, load your code, then execute a function
<phoe>
creating a binary is basically creating a modified version of your Lisp that has your code already loaded and upon start calls your function instead of dropping into the REPL
<kenran>
Cool, very encouraging :) I have to leave for a bit now, thanks everyone!
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<White_Flame>
kenran: the typical way to interact/develop CL programs is through emacs & the SLIME interface
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<White_Flame>
you can build CL binaries that have the server to that, and connect into it via emacs and open up a remote REPL into it
<White_Flame>
for the "full" development environment
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<White_Flame>
(as well as some internal interface for calling EVAL)
<pjb>
kenran: actually, the "create binary part" is usually called "saving a lisp image" or "saving an executable lisp image".
<pjb>
kenran: by default when you do that, you'll get a lisp image that when rebooted drops back in the REPL (only with all that was loaded before saving already loaded after booting it). You have to give specific options to the function saving the lisp image to install your own "toplevel function" replacing the REPL.
<pjb>
kenran: ecl is different, it doesn't have lisp images, instead it saves an ELF binary. But you get mostly the same result.
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<kenran>
pjb: ah, I think I might have done the save-lisp-and-die thing once in the past to create an executable with sbcl
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<nij->
How do I get the name of the function? E.g. something like (function-name #'+) => "+" ?
<nij->
I tried #'slot-value without luck.
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<Alfr>
nij-, what should (function-name (lambda () 42)) yield?
<nij->
Alfr "(LAMBDA ())"
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<Alfr>
nij-, that usually isn't a valid function name, as those are either symbols or (setf some-symbol).
<Bike>
nij-: function-lambda-expression may give you something.
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<Alfr>
But that one may simply always answer nil for the name part.
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<nij->
Bike Oh indeed. And it also gives me (lambda ()) for Alfr's example.
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<NotThatRPG>
I'm having the oddest problem. I have a function that computes four values, the last of which is a closure. I print out that closure and then return it in a values construct in the next line. But when I trace the function, it displays as only returning THREE values. Any idea what could account for this? It's driving me bonkers.
<pjb>
nij-: who said a function had only a single name?
<pjb>
Or had a name at all!
<pjb>
Actually, we may consider that the name of the function (lambda () 42) #| --> #<Anonymous Function #x302005F3C76F> |# be (lambda () 42) it self! Since (function <my-function-name>) -> the function named my-function-name, and (function (lambda () 42)) -> the anonymous function in question.
<pjb>
nij-: naming is always relative to some authority, to some registry. An object can be given several names. So if you want to name your functions perhaps you should manage your own registry. https://termbin.com/6fmc
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<pjb>
NotThatRPG: what would be the code?
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<pjb>
NotThatRPG: there's an infinite number of programs that behave as you describe !!! Why don't you paste the code immediately when you want debugging help?
<White_Flame>
NotThatRPG: how high are your optimization settings? maybe some things might become opaque to the tracer?
<NotThatRPG>
White_Flame: They are not that high -- I think 2's across the board.
<White_Flame>
still, post code
<pjb>
It could be the tracer can only print 3 values at most.
<pjb>
And specify the implementation.
<White_Flame>
or reduce it to a minimal subset of the code that still b0rks out
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<NotThatRPG>
Will do. BTW, this couldn't be a valid compiler optimization: I'm trying to catch the fourth return value and use it, and it errors out right after return.
* NotThatRPG
is testing on SBCL and ACL rn
<White_Flame>
"errors out" with the closure object being NIL or what?
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<nij->
pjb I see. Thanks :)
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<prokhor>
can somebody pls turn me to an concise introdunction to reader macros?
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<Fare>
prokhor, see their example use in fare-quasiquote and/or scribble