jackdaniel changed the topic of #commonlisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | Wiki: <https://www.cliki.net> | IRC Logs: <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23commonlisp> | Cookbook: <https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook> | Pastebin: <https://plaster.tymoon.eu/>
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<dino_tutter> happy new years!
<holycow> ditto
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<beach> nij-: It is not "connecting". It is a Common Lisp application running in some Common Lisp image. You can have one instance running in each of several Common Lisp images of course.
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<gendl> Hi, and happy new year. I'm not able to git pull, git push, or ssh into gitlab.common-lisp.net or common-lisp.net -- anyone else having trouble?
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<char[m]> Hello common lisp. Is it guaranteed that two cons (say arguments to a macro) will not be eq? Even if they look the same (copy pasted).
<phoe> char[m]: (eq (cons 1 2) (cons 1 2))
<phoe> char[m]: (equal (cons 1 2) (cons 1 2))
<phoe> the first compares them by identity, the latter compares them by value
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<phoe> these are two conses that are equal but not eq/the same
<char[m]> Right, but is an implementation allow to say "these two look the same, I'm going to save a bit of memory and make them eq"?
<phoe> in some situations it can do this
<phoe> but AFAIK you can't really depend on it because it's up for the implementation to do this
<phoe> and nothing guaranteed
<phoe> e.g. coalescing literals in source code
<edgar-rft> consider this -> (let* ((a (cons 1 2)) (b a)) (eq a b)) => T
<char[m]> I would actually like to be able to tell if they are different if they are duplicated in the source.
<phoe> yeah but that's gonna be true if you replace (cons 1 3) with anything else
<phoe> er, (cons 1 2)
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<edgar-rft> two arguments of a macro *can* point to the same cons but two cons cannot be EQ, this ase *two* different cases
<edgar-rft> * this are *two* ...
<char[m]> Can I assume that two (make-instance ...) Will not be eq, even if the two ... are the same?
<phoe> in almost all cases this is true, yes
<phoe> https://github.com/hipeta/cl-singleton-mixin is a case where this will not be true
<ixelp> GitHub - hipeta/cl-singleton-mixin: Cl-singleton-mixin provides singleton mixin in Common Lisp
<char[m]> That cool. Thanks people
<char[m]> I assume that singles will not be eq if they are initialized with different slots?
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<phoe> singletons are always eq by definition
<phoe> in this implementation, all the next calls to make-instance are just going to have no effect wrt initialization
<phoe> the old instance will just be returned
<char[m]> I see. Not too important to me right now because I want them to not be eq.
<pjb> char[m]: functions that return fresh objects are guaranteed to return objects that are not EQL (and therefore not EQ) to any live object.
<phoe> char[m]: by definition they aren't singletons then
<pjb> char[m]: CONS returns a fresh cons cell (a new one).
<char[m]> pjb: yeah, but I'm not talking about cons function. Im talking about literal conses in source code.
<pjb> char[m]: literal conses can be coalesced by the compiler, when they're in the same compilation unit. So they may be EQL.
<pjb> (forget about EQ).
<pjb> (eql '(a . b) '(a . b)) may return true or NIL.
<phoe> ;; or forget not - conses are EQ iff they are EQL
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<char[m]> Thanks again. I'll use make-instance wrappers to guarantee different instances are not eq.
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<phoe> you probably don't need to
<phoe> make-instance generates non-EQ objects by default
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<char[m]> That is what I mean. Wrapping literal conses in a custom object created via make-instance.
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<pjb> char[m]: don't return literal conses! Use the CONS function!
<pjb> DUH
<pjb> or LIST or LIST* or etc…
<char[m]> I do that for my own code. I mean for the source code itself, like the input to macros.
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