<nij->
Hi! Is it possible to handle a condition by popping out the choice panel to the user for N seconds, and close the panel to do something else if no choice is provided?
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<Bike>
nij-: that would have to be a feature of the debugger. i do not know of any debuggers that do that, but you could write one.
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<nij->
Oh I see.
<nij->
Perhaps this is an XY problem. I want to let a lot of threads running in the background. But I find it annoying to have a debugger popping out everytime a condition is met.
<nij->
Not sure if there's a better way than hacking the debugger..
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<Bike>
Can you not jusst handle the conditions
<Bike>
for example by logging the error and continuing?
<Bike>
having a debugger disappear while while i'm deciding what to do would probably just piss me off
<nij->
I will do that. Thanks :)
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<stylewarning>
:)))))
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<stylewarning>
hayley: what for and how
<stylewarning>
we just got pattern exhaustiveness checking in Coalton (:
<stylewarning>
it's sort of par for the course but it's a good achievement anyway
<hayley>
By doing really crappy compilation of the JSON output of the Coq Extraction module. I suspect Coalton would generate much better code (mostly around munging Lisp-1/2 and FFI'ing curried functions to Lisp uncurried functions).
<hayley>
As for why, because one course this semester involves "using static analysis tools" for cloud stuffs, for which they probably mean a linter.
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<stylewarning>
haha
<hayley>
Then I had the terrible thought last night to feed verified code to CL. Not that my compiler is sound, or even close to working for anything other than ADD.
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<hayley>
stylewarning: Do you have any opinions on if/how to expose curried functions to CL? I think I can glean how much to uncurry from the Coq JSON dump, but the idea of gleaning it puts me off a bit.
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<puchacz>
hi, is there a lisp-to-lisp communication library that would be suitable for interactive REPL development? e.g. from SBCL sly, evaluate (with-another-lisp *abcl-connection* (do-something)) ?
<puchacz>
the reason is that my main Lisp is sbcl, but abcl has potentially access to many libraries based on java.
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<beach>
You would not be able to do much with such a thing. Objects would lose their identity, and most objects would not be possible to replicate on the other side.
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<puchacz>
right. so best to start 2 REPLs, and pass data via strings then.
<puchacz>
either plain/copy paste in emacs, or open socket
<beach>
Even with strings, there is not much you can do with a string such as "#<SOME-CLASS ...>"
<puchacz>
yes. only lists, actual strings, keywords, symbols used as string designators, numbers. like JSON really
<puchacz>
or EDN in clojure
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<Shinmera>
lfarm may be of interest
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<puchacz>
I wi ll have a look how it is done, but I think design goal is different - rather than have 2 lisps or more tightly coupled, sending a task to any of lisp server instances that are interchangeable
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<puchacz>
systems I have in mind are like cl4py/py4cl or Rich Hickey's thingy for java<->lisp comm (was the name leaf? I can't remember now)
<puchacz>
H
<puchacz>
Riich' library uses weak hash map to tell the server when it is ok to garbage collect object on java, and it either sends around self evaluating objects like strings or numbers, or creates proxies for everything on lisp side
<puchacz>
yes, foil. https://foil.sourceforge.net/ I used it but not much and not for interactivity, but to generate specific java calls that returned strings...
<ixelp>
Foil - a Foreign Object Interface for Lisp
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<NotThatRPG_away>
Does anyone have a link to a page that lists all the forms that are evaluated at compile time? My google fu is too weak to find this.
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<kenran>
When do I use a defclass in Common Lisp as opposed to, say, a defstruct to group data together? From what I've read about CLOS so far it seems like I should use a class only if I want inheritance. Is that correct?
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<aeth>
there are two approaches
<aeth>
One is to use defclass for everything and to treat structs as a legacy format. This is the majority approach on this IRC channel.
<aeth>
Overwhelmingly so.
<aeth>
The other is to use defstructs in certain circumstances, usually for performance and/or simplicity. After all, you can still defmethod on them if you need to. Technically, they can have their own form of inheritance, but by the time you need inheritance, you're probably in a place where standard classes are better
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<aeth>
Runtime struct redefinition doesn't work on every implementation, either.
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<kenran>
From my more FP-like view (where I rarely if ever need or want inheritance), it seems so "strange" to use `defclass' to just define simple product types, given that defmethods are not coupled to classes.
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<aeth>
My personal rule of thumb is to use defstruct when :type in slots is an important factor, especially for performance, because it gives the implementation more information, even if the implemntation can choose to ignore it.
<aeth>
Yes, you can make product types, or even custom typed cons cells, from structs.
<kenran>
Thanks for this comprehensive answer :)
<aeth>
But I also have a way to force typechecks on defclass via the metaobject protocol, so it's not even a case of 'every time I have typed slots I use a struct'.
<kenran>
Every winter for some reason the Common Lisp virus latches onto me, but this time it feels like it's gonna stick for a while :D
<aeth>
e.g. defclass is very OOP, dynamic OOP, high level, slower, redefinable, etc. While defstruct is great for hot loops in high-performance stuff.
<kenran>
Ah yeah, that's the way I'm used to from other languages. I was especially wondering if there's anything else they could be useful for if I don't plan on using inheritance.
<aeth>
I guess you could say that the most functional (who needs inheritance?) and least functional (you can write Fortran in any language) code might use structs while the majority in the middle can ignore them.
<aeth>
Standard classes are incredibly dynamic so you can force some fancy things on them with the metaobject protocol.
<kenran>
Haha, that's a nice take :D
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<kenran>
The MOP still eludes me, as I have not spent any time on it. I'm looking for a fun language for hobby projects, and so far CL is quickly rising up in rank for me :) I'm working exclusively in FP for my job, so I thought using something that's more pragmatic and mostly paradigm-agnostic would make it more fun.
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<aeth>
Structs are simple (static) containers, hash tables are simple containers in the complete opposite direction (no real structure), and defclass has a lot of mostly-hidden power.
<aeth>
It's actually kind of hard to decide which one if you overthink things, and that's before getting into alists/plists (largely interchangeable), fancy arrays, etc.
<kenran>
That kind of sums up my whole experience with CL so far: I can never decide between all the different ways to do things.
<kenran>
It's bad in Haskell for me already, but CL is a couple more powers of flexible.
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<Shinmera>
the short answer is: use structs as an optimisation strategy
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<phoe>
is it legal for *DEFAULT-PATHNAME-DEFAULTS* to be a relative pathname?
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<irileas>
Hope I'm not off-topic with my question... I was looking at the implementation of Common Lisps recently and found that if you return multiple values, they need to be stored somewhere during an unwind-protect clause... how does this happen exactly?