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<Bike>
mfiano: yeppers. thanks again
<mfiano>
Bike: Really happy to help. conspack was one of my favorite CL libraries, and I'm happy to see you stepping up since it was left to rot a few years ago.
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<mfiano>
Even if that means something tiny fixed/improved every few years, it's better than what we had :) (wish I had more time for code and contributing to good ideas)
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<nij->
phoe I see with *debugger-hook* I can let some function runs before #'invoke-debugger. And with #'abort I can overwrite what the debugger would have done. But how do we throw what the debugger would have shown into standard output?
<Bike>
you mean the debugger you didn't write?
<nij->
I mean something like `To continue, type :CONTINUE followed by an option number:\n 1: Return to Lisp Toplevel.`
<Bike>
so the debugger you didn't write. you can try to redirect the output by binding *debug-io*, but no guarantees
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<stanrifkin>
what's the naming origin of mapcan?
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<yitzi>
like mapcar, but uses nconc versus list to combine. mapca[r->n] probably?
<Shinmera>
people keep saying mapcan, but sometimes you just mapcant
<pjb>
that, plus length <= 6 on early implementations was good.
<yitzi>
Shinmera: Don't discourage map ... you'll give it low self esteem.
<stanrifkin>
I wondered about the "can" part.
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<pjb>
stanrifkin: there's also mapcon and maplist (and mapc and mapl) ; probably mapcar comes from mapcar + mapcon
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<stanrifkin>
seems like it just came from nconc like yitzi said.
<yitzi>
basically its mapcon, but since it is like mapcar ... mapc[o->a]n
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<jackdaniel>
maptruck and mapconvict
<_death>
it's interesting that MAP was indeed used for many years to do what we call MAPL, and CL designers chose to rename it so they could add what we know as MAP..
<_death>
also seems interlisp called what we know as MAPCAN, MAPCONC
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<_death>
jackdaniel: we could have MAPCON use APPEND, and MAPPRO ("nothing bad will happen" optimistic version; also, "professional") use NCONC
<edgar-rft>
mapcan was created when they ran out of worms
<_death>
worm processing
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<_death>
splittist: nah, maplist and mapcon had the same meaning as nowadays.. map is what we now call mapl
<splittist>
_death: ah, ok.
* splittist
must brush up on his m-lisp reading skills
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<nij->
Hmm.. I've tried (let ((*debug-io* *standard-output*)) (/ 3 0)) but that doesn't print the debugger message to *standard-output*..
<Bike>
are you doing this in slime/slimv/whatever?
<pjb>
nij-: you need an I/O stream , not an output strem!
<pjb>
nij-: check that *standard-output* -> #<swank/gray::slime-output-stream #x302002B189CD>
<pjb>
or whatever you want *standard-output* be bound to…
<pjb>
nij-: so in general, the correct form is: (let ((*debug-io* (make-two-way-stream (make-string-input-stream (coerce #(#\q #\newline) 'string)) *standard-output*))) (/ 3 0)) ; but swank doesn't use *debug-io*, it uses emacs and sldb.
<pjb>
nij-: there are hooks.
<pjb>
nij-: here is as an example, what I do to display additionnal info in my sldb buffers: https://termbin.com/vuttl
<pjb>
you may need (setf slime-enable-evaluate-in-emacs t) ; perhaps.
<Bike>
pretty sure sldb bypasses this stuff so this isn't going to work anyway
<phoe>
nij-: you need to write your own debugger that writes to standard output
<phoe>
or rather to *debug-io*
<phoe>
the standard ones won't do
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<pjb>
nij-: that said, if you write your debugger with CLIM, then you can use *debug-io* for both text output and GUI stuff.
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<Bike>
i'd like some slime opinions. if you try to view source on something (with M-. or sldb v), and the implementation reports that it's in a file, and that file doesn't exist, slime just opens an empty buffer
<Bike>
but if additionally the implementation source includes the :align t hint, instead of doing that, emacs just gives you an inscrutable error
<Bike>
would it make sense to have slime just report the file doesn't exist instead?
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<NotThatRPG>
:align t ?
<Bike>
it's a hint telling slime to go to the next sexp. but since there are no sexps at all emacs doesn't seem to like that.
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<beach>
Makes sense to me.
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<Josh_2>
In a running SBCL image how can I check what version it is?
<Bike>
(lisp-implementation-version)
<Josh_2>
Thanks
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<Josh_2>
I can use declaim to specify safety settings for an entire project?
<Josh_2>
I want safety 3 speed 1 to be default in this specific project
<Josh_2>
in the source as someone else will be building and deploying. I could ask them to change their .sbclrc buttt its easier if I declare it toplevel (if thats a good idea)
<pjb>
Josh_2: my advice is not to do that in the project sources. However, you could do that in the asd file, with some :before method I guess. The best is just to do it in your rc file, or in the REPL, before compiling the project.
<pjb>
Or in the script you uise to build and deploy it!
<pjb>
s/uise/use/
<pjb>
Josh_2: the problem is that they are global declarations, so they impact all the code that is compiled after you declare them.
<pjb>
So with a compilation, load, and generate image script, you can control it.
<pjb>
See for example https://github.com/informatimago/hw generate.lisp and generate-hw.lisp you could add the declarations you want between loading dependencies.
<ixelp>
GitHub - informatimago/hw: Hello World, in various programming languages.
<Josh_2>
I am using a Makefile to build
<Josh_2>
and just loading the project with ql and then using asdf:make
<Josh_2>
I could always try using one of the docker images
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<Nilby>
Josh_2: perhaps uiop/lisp-build:with-optimization-settings could help?
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<pjb>
Josh_2: obviously, there's a Makefile in the hw example project.
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<Josh_2>
I am so used to building apps on my machine and uploading them to my vps that it is very strange trying to get it all written down for someone else
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<char[m]>
Bike: the printout of (ctype:specifier-ctype '(vector integer)) appears to have lost the "integer" part. It is actually still there though. Why doesn't it print out something including "integer" instead of just simple-vector? The printing of the carray part is strange to me as well.
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<Bike>
ctype does the CL type system, which for most purposes ignores expressed array element types
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<char[m]>
I see that is rather alarming. (typep (vector 1 2 3) '(vector string)) is t!
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<Josh_2>
Use classes problem solved :sunglasses:
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<Nilby>
but (typep (make-array 3 :element-type 'fixnum) '(vector string)) ⇒ NIL, so if you want the possibility of a specific type array, you can't just use vector which holds anything
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<char[m]>
Josh_2: I agree, but many libraries make heavy use of build in data structures. Good pointNilby
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<paulapatience>
<char[m]> "I see that is rather alarming..." <- Use upgraded-array-element-type to see what element type a vector will end up with
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<nij->
phoe hmmm I suppose sbcl's debugger send its message to *debug-io*. If that's the case, it should be able to print that message by redirecting it to *standard-output*, no?
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<nij->
Bike, pjb I'm using sly, yes. But lemme first resolve it in a terminal based sbcl repl.
<nij->
pjb: this does not do what I expected: (let ((*debug-io* (make-two-way-stream (make-string-input-stream (coerce #(#\q #\newline) 'string)) *standard-output*))) (/ 3 0))
<Bike>
nij-: okay but: sly is not going to output to a normal stream, since it's part of a whole UI. i think you are doomed.
<nij->
Did you expect me to change it with some common sense?
<Bike>
what?
<nij->
It's fine. I am happy to have that in a terminal-based repl for now.
<Bike>
but even then it's not really stable. the debugger is meant to be interactive. if you want a non interactive experience you should turn off the debugger.
<Bike>
what the debugger prints is arbitrary and not machine readable. if you want to control debugger output you will need to write your own debugger. doing so is not all that difficult either.