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<Nilby>
(namestring (make-pathname :type "foo"))) => sbcl: error, ccl: ".foo", ecl: nil, clisp: ".foo", etc... so you can do whatever you want because pathnames already suck
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<Nilby>
I like ".foo", but it I can't rely on it, so I can't use it.
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<Nilby>
Meanwhile here in the future, there's two kinds of file names, one that's simple and everyone likes it and can be just a list. Another that includes ipv6 addresses and GUIDs, and nothing really handles fully.
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<grawlinson>
distro packager here, is there any point in symlinking .asd files to /usr/share/common-lisp/systems? it seems to be in Fedora/OpenSUSE/Arch's packaging guidelines but as far as I can tell, Debian doesn't bother with it
<grawlinson>
Is there anywhere in the (or *a*) spec that mandates it?
<semz>
grawlinson: The ASDF manual (https://asdf.common-lisp.dev/asdf.html §4.2) says it's a common (but outdated?) idiom. I don't think it's strictly required.
<grawlinson>
got as far as "...a common idiom *was* to put symbolic links..."
<grawlinson>
this makes my life so much easier, thanks semz :)
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<jackdaniel>
so.. anyone hacking on something interesting?
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<mfiano>
jackdaniel: I'm writing a snapshot management system for ZFS filesystems, with retention policies and replication to other hosts.
<jackdaniel>
how is it going?
<mfiano>
I'm trying to design a retention policy. I could use some feedback on an algorithm (in prose/ascii-art) to check for any holes.
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<Shinmera>
jackdaniel: Workin' on Kandria. Currently doing level design, but earlier I was implementing a dust effect in the hopes that it'll make some environments a bit more interesting to look at.
<jackdaniel>
when should we expect a new teaser video? when the kickstarter compaign starts?
<Shinmera>
I got a rough cut of the new trailer just yesterday. It'll be out when the Steam Next Fest launches on the 13th.
<jackdaniel>
cool, can't wait to see it
<rotateq>
Nice, I'll buy it and tell some more people. :)
<Shinmera>
Great, thanks!
<mfiano>
No takers? Ah well. I'll stare at it and think some more :)
<flip214>
mfiano: well, I've got my own script for btrfs snapshots...
<flip214>
I look at the existing snapshots and remove the ones that are required for the specifications -- so the outcome is a list of snapshots to remove
<mfiano>
I've used btrfs for a couple years, but I wouldn't trade it for the power of ZFS these days.
<flip214>
you asked about retention policy - that's independent of filesystem anyway
<mfiano>
I have a few different policies. I'm thinking about this one
<flip214>
sounds like my work, right
<flip214>
though "newer snapshots are pruned first" means that you'll delete your newest ones as long as they're in the same bucket as the next ones
<flip214>
ie. do snapshots every 5 min, but keep only one for the last hour => you discard the 11 newest ones before retaining one
<mfiano>
Right
<flip214>
which might not be what you want
<flip214>
I fell into the same trap ;)
<flip214>
also, I always keep the oldest one, as a kind of archive
<flip214>
or reference point
<mfiano>
Hmm
<mfiano>
The thing is both local host and each replication host can have different retention policies
<mfiano>
FOr the same dataset (subvolume i guess in btrfs terms)
<flip214>
I've got two independent retentions and independent snapshots for one data set (with one off-site copy); synchronizing them was too much effort and too fragile.
<flip214>
just have data and snapshots at the source; copy the current stuff via cron to remote; and remote, triggered automatically by the rsync, does independent snapshots after a successful sync
<mfiano>
ah zfs has `zfs send`/`zfs recv` with incremental delta support. so you can do zfs send latest-snapshot | zfs recv foo (or piped through ssh for remote)
<flip214>
independency was a good idea when I broke a retention script and killed all snapshots on one site ;/
<flip214>
yeah, btrfs can do that as well. Still, using rsync protects me against a possible filesystem corruption (which might get sent on via these internal mechanisms)
<mfiano>
I quadratically backup every dataset locally and to every other host, and some are running mirrored arrays so i'm not worried
<flip214>
well, how does mirroring help against filesystem corruption? would just be synced on as well?
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<mfiano>
zfs has filesystem corruption protection built in. it's the only filesystem that can survive and repair a power loss during a buffered write. plus a filesystem is a pool, and if you're snapshotting/replicating a pool like i am you have snapshots everywhere to restore it.
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<mfiano>
it even has resume tokens if network or power is lost during a zfs send
<flip214>
I still wouldn't rule out software bug, gamma rays, etc.... using different tools makes my backup more resilient, I believe
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<mfiano>
Sure yeah, that's a valid opinion.
<mfiano>
Security is only a feeling after all.
<mfiano>
I am not going to move into a lead bunker to protect from gamma rays though
<mfiano>
What I have has worked well for a while :)
<flip214>
mfiano: well, salt mines have much higher background radiation, so they should be avoided too
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<Josh_2>
Good morning
<rotateq>
Hello Josh_2 :)
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<Guest74>
drmeister: while the error is annoying, it seems to make logical sense, given the CL abstraction for pathnames, as dot files are singular.
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<drmeister>
Guest74: When you say "dot files are singular" - what do you mean?
<drmeister>
It sounds like there is a thought process behind what you said and I'd like to understand that.
<Guest74>
there can be many txt files but there is only one .sbclrc. So it make sense that .sbclrc is a name and not a type.
<jackdaniel>
singularities, you put configuration to them and you can't read it back
<drmeister>
Guest74: That is an interesting perspective... thinking...
<drmeister>
jackdaniel: Ha - hello.
<Guest74>
jackdaniel: Truth right there. I wish I could store devices in the pathname.
<drmeister>
We are working with github actions yaml files. I don't want to read them back.
<jackdaniel>
hey
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<Guest74>
actually, I really wish all implementations stored device information in pathnames.
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<drmeister>
Guest74: Your point is that with pathnames `:type` is supposed to indicate a type of pathname and that doesn't quite fit with dot files being singular.
<Guest74>
yes, though might just be my rationalization to stop getting mad at sbcl.
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<drmeister>
In ecl `(namestring (make-pathname :type "clasprc"))` returns NIL - clasp copied that behavior until yesterday. I changed clasp yesterday to return ".clasprc" because I interpret the pathname-type as more of a pathname-"extension". I see your point however.
<semz>
it's also reasonable to say that a pathname must have a name
<drmeister>
It appears that I am not violating the Common Lisp specification - this is implementation dependent behavior.
<semz>
a pathname specifying a file that is
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<jackdaniel>
so, can I take that ecl is not in the wrong either?
<jackdaniel>
checking this up would be a bother :)
<drmeister>
jackdaniel: Correct - it's pretty clear its implementation dependent.
<Guest74>
drmeister: I thought that at first, but that's a very modern concept.
<drmeister>
This came up because we tried to define the RC file using the logical pathname #P"home:.rc" and it didn't work.
<drmeister>
semz: Yes - that is reasonable.
<Guest74>
This is definitely one of those wscl things. It's hard to work with an abstraction that nobody can agree upon.
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<semz>
Agree. I like the idea behind pathnames a lot but they end up rather awkward in practice because of this.
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<semz>
so I usually have to stick to very basic uses
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<mfiano>
Ugh, yes. Pathnames are awkward to work with at times. I usually use UIOP's abstractions just to have some common ground to work with. Too much implementation-dependent behavior and other gotchas that are better, though far from ideal, using UIOP.
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<danisanti>
Hi. I want to start learning Common Lisp. Which book do you suggest for me?
<danisanti>
It is my first Lisp language
<beach>
If you know how to program already, then PCL.
<beach>
minion: Please tell danisanti about PCL.
<minion>
danisanti: please look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
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<danisanti>
I know how to program, yes
<beach>
Great!
<danisanti>
beach an minion: thank you for the reference
<beach>
Pleasure.
<beach>
And don't hesitate to join #clschool for even trivial questions.
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<beach>
danisanti: You can ask questions here too, but if they become too basic and too numerous, you will be directed to #clschool. But some basic questions are tolerated here.
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<trev>
beach thanks, joining there since i am ready to spam
<beach>
Hmm. OK.
<trev>
i mean, ask noobie questions
<beach>
I understand.
<danisanti>
#clschool , ok
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