<Shinmera>
Eh, that's just to avoid caching problems
<ck_>
it's a good idea, I'll remember it, thank you
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<beach>
Shinmera: Excellent! I'll read it later when I have more time.
<Shinmera>
Sure. The main document is pretty short.
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<beach>
Still, I need time to grasp the concepts.
<beach>
"horizontal mixing", "segment"...
<Shinmera>
Right, horizontal mixing is an industry term. It refers to the practise where you have multiple music tracks that are the same in rhythm and overall melody, but feature differences in say instrumentation used. You can then change the perceived tone and intensity of the music by fading between different tracks seamlessly.
<Shinmera>
Also just noticed the page got confused with the user package. Hrm.
<beach>
Thanks.
<Nilby>
wow. with all those backends it looks like you've really "solved" portable sound for lisp.
<Shinmera>
Or, I should say, there's some more I'd like to see done, not that I'll necessarily get them done myself :)
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<lisp123>
Shinmera: how many hours a day do you write lisp code?
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<Shinmera>
I don't track my hours, so I'm afraid I can't answer that question.
<lisp123>
Ah
<lisp123>
You should chat to dbm@refined-audiometrics.com - he's into all that sound stuff in lisp
<Nilby>
but we can guess he works a heckin lot, from his git commits and livestreams, but what really matters is his results are great. i can work a lot with mediocre results
<rotateq>
lisp123: or as an older math school teacher liked to say back then "If the day isn't enough, take the night additionally."
<Shinmera>
I don't write much lisp these days, simply because most of the work now is in design, polish, marketing, etc.
<lisp123>
rotateq: I wish I was that dedicated
<lisp123>
Nilby: Join the club ;)
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<Josh_2>
I have my ../tests asdf definition under my normal system definition in my .asd but when I attempt to quickload the project my lisp hangs
<Josh_2>
previously when I had my ../tests uncommented in my .asd I would also be thrown into the ldb when trying to dump and image :(
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<beach>
Oh, thank you!
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<Shinmera>
Sure. Long overdue anyway :)
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<White_Flame>
why would (defmethod print-object ((obj obj) stream) (call-next-method)) exhaust the stack?
<White_Flame>
I'm hitting that as I'm temporarily disabling one of my object printers, and even when cleanly reloading with just that form it still recurses unto death
<Bike>
there are no other applicable methods besides the default one?
<White_Flame>
correct
<White_Flame>
it's a struct
<White_Flame>
and the slots don't even contain objects of its own type either
<Bike>
is the method actually just that, or is it conditionalized on something? i just did a quick test in sbcl and having only that method was no problem for a standard object.
<Bike>
looks ok with a struct object too
<White_Flame>
yes, it's just that, and my test in a clean repl in cl-user works fine as well
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<White_Flame>
I commented out the rest of my print-object body, leaving only (call-next-method) in there
<White_Flame>
I wonder if there's some weird package or import effect
<Bike>
what about the dynamic context? any funny *print-* variables bound?
<White_Flame>
ugh, it's literally (defstruct word ...) and doing M-. on WORD brings me to sb-vm:word
<White_Flame>
why the heck is that visible through :use :common-lisp?
<Bike>
ah, because it is exposed in sb-ext, i believe
<Bike>
which is accessible from common-lisp-user, but shouldn't be from common-lisp, i don't think
<Shinmera>
that's not through :cl though, but :cl-user.
<Bike>
(find-symbol "WORD" "CL") => NIL NIL for me
<Shinmera>
As it must be.
<White_Flame>
Shinmera: this is from (defpackage :bootstrap (:use :common-lisp :alexandria))
<Shinmera>
Are you sure you're in the right package 'n all.
<White_Flame>
yep, this is pretty small test code
<Shinmera>
*shrug* whatever happened cl does not export a word symbol. Doing so would not be compliant.
<White_Flame>
right
<Bike>
maybe you forgot an in-package?
<White_Flame>
nope
<White_Flame>
but after restarting a few more times, now M-. is taking me to my defstruct
<White_Flame>
I don't know what ephemera b0rked this, but it was like that for a few days as I've returned to this project
<White_Flame>
and it's still blowing the stack >:-(
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<White_Flame>
...and I found a data recursion that didn't get traversed in my printer, but the default printer does since it tries to print every slot
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<White_Flame>
thanks, rubber ducky
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<Guest74>
Shinmera: are there different use cases for harmony and something like portaudio? I'm inching ever closer to sound.
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<Shinmera>
portaudio seems to only do the job that cl-mixed's extensions do.
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<Shinmera>
portaudio seems to only do the job that cl-mixed's extensions do.
<Shinmera>
libmixed and harmony do a lot more than just that.
<Shinmera>
So if you want to use portaudio you'd write a cl-mixed extension that uses it to handle the endpoints.
<Guest74>
I'll take a look now at the docs that i've restarted. stupid firefox was crashing on new tabs.
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<Shinmera>
libmixed is two things: a standardised API for sound processing, and an implementation of a variety of sound processing algorithms. cl-mixed exposes that to lisp and implements integrations with files and devices. harmony simplifies things by managing allocations, parallel processing, and so on.
<Guest74>
I think right now I'm only looking for a sound output for generated waves.
<Shinmera>
cl-mixed can do that, too :shrug:
<Shinmera>
see the examples it ships.
<Guest74>
I'll be giving sound more thought once I'm happy with this UI stuff. I've just been thinking of making some graphical sound generator nodes to test UI stuff.
<Guest74>
though one feature I would like is 3d positioning of text-to-speech. are these extensions how you would be able to use a memory buffer provided by another program?
<Shinmera>
sure.
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<Guest74>
looks nice so far Shinmera: I'll try and make an effort to use it.
<Guest74>
though do you know what the problem is with jack and sbcl and just haven't had time to fix it?
<Shinmera>
libjack does weird shit with unix signals for some reason.
<Shinmera>
couldn't get it to Not Do That
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<Guest74>
thanks, i'll keep that in mind.
<Shinmera>
SDL2 just hard-crashes SBCL whenever I try to open any device.
<Shinmera>
And the other ones have weird distortion that I can't explain. It seems like there's a mismatch of the audio format specs somewhere, but I couldn't figure out where.
<Guest74>
lol, by the time I'd get around to look into it Linux will be on a new sound standard.
<Shinmera>
PipeWire is it, but it is compatible with Alsa and Pulse (and Jack)
<Shinmera>
so no need to directly make a port, though it would be Nice to Have
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<Guest74>
I never figured out a good way to access pipewire when I looked at it. I'm not a fan of ffi.
<Shinmera>
:shrug:
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<Shinmera>
everything audio will involve FFI in some form.
<Shinmera>
Not that it *has* to, just that that's what you'll get.
<Guest74>
sure, that's one of the big reasons I'm trying to use someone elses library. It helps that you wrote the c library that the lisp library interfaces with.
<Guest74>
Just for me personally never saw a good way to interact with it, it can be very verbose.
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<Shinmera>
Yeah. Alsa and Pulse are nice in that they offer extremely simple APIs to output audio. Everything else is a mess :v
<Shinmera>
There's still some work left to be done for almost all backends, too, namely handling dynamic device changes (most notably disconnects).
<Shinmera>
It's not frequent, but it does happen.
<Shinmera>
Oh, and I'd like to have input available as well.
<Guest74>
oh i didn't know it didn't have it. I plan on writing one of those singing 'games' some time.
<Shinmera>
After kandria I might do some consulting work for a while so... :)
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<drakonis>
slime or sly for editing on emacs?
<mfiano>
Whichever you prefer.
<mfiano>
SLY cherry picks from SLIME once in a while, and contains more features and bug fixes present in SLIME.
<mfiano>
My opinion is pretty biased though :)
<drakonis>
i see
<drakonis>
the main branch hasnt been active in awhile, but it shouldnt stop me from using it lol
<drakonis>
works quite well
<mfiano>
The SLY maintainer is always very responsive and fixes any bugs reported usually same day, as well. SLIME is mostly maintained by the SBCL contributors.
<mfiano>
I've seen wrong fixes go into SLIME that should have went into SBCL before as well :)
<drakonis>
i see
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<mfiano>
SLY is very stable and works well. It is mostly in a maintenance phase. It doesn't really need much done these days.
<drakonis>
wonderful.
<mfiano>
If the added features (read: stickers) aren't enough to convince you, not to mention the many bug fixes on top of SLIME, then I say just go with SLIME :)
<mfiano>
One thing lacking from SLY is a contrib for the statistical profiler, but that should be quite easy to port should anyone miss it.
<mfiano>
SBCL's statistical profiler, that is.
<drakonis>
i already have SLY
<drakonis>
i was wondering what was up with both these days
<mfiano>
Then you aren't missing much more than you have gained.