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<White_Flame>
dbotton: --disable-debugger is a cmdline option, but I think it will probably still exit. Where would you want it to execute from after printing error/stack?
<dbotton>
no don't want to exit at all
<dbotton>
if sbcl goes down so do other sites etc
<White_Flame>
but you say "I don't want to stop running", would you just want to hang or what?
<White_Flame>
is this multithreaded and you just want the thread to die?
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<dbotton>
No just the thread to die
<dbotton>
Not sbcl
<White_Flame>
and --disable-debugger causes sbcl to die when a non-main thread errors out?
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<dbotton>
yes
<dbotton>
any thread
<dbotton>
It is rare that a condition slips by but for some reason does in various web threads. playing now with restarts and services and so at least recovers and no longer need to run the websites in tmux
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
<zacque>
Is it correct that the only way to create an uninterned symbol at runtime is by evaluating GENSYM?
<zacque>
Thanks! So, there are three ways to create uninterned symbols: GEMSYM, MAKE-SYMBOL, and COPY-SYMBOL
<beach>
Also INTERN.
<beach>
Oh, no, sorry. Not uninterned.
<beach>
I shouldn't try to answer questions before I had my morning coffee.
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<zacque>
Ah, that's fine! Now I understand INTERN better by re-reading its dictionary entry, haha!
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<mfiano>
There are more ways, considering you can invoke the different compiler phases at runtime
<mfiano>
(read-from-string "#:FOO") for example
<zacque>
Oh, right, functions that invoke the READER
<beach>
The reader will probably call one of the functions already mentioned, though.
<mfiano>
It may call implementation details shared by both. Here we are only concerned with the standard ways though.
<Nilby>
also (funcall (get-dispatch-macro-character #\# #\:) …) with the standard readtable
<mfiano>
Can also get more clever with: (defpackage foo (:use cl) (:export foo)) (in-package :foo) (defparameter *foo* 'foo) (unintern 'foo) *foo*
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<mfiano>
err I guess that should have exported *foo* which holds the reference to the unhomed symbol
<Nilby>
I feel like the "count the ways to make an uninterned symbol" game could be endless: (progn (make-package :foo) (let ((s (intern "FOO" :foo))) (delete-package :foo) s))
<mfiano>
You're not in Pythonland anymore
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<zacque>
Interesting! Thanks for opening my eyes =D
<mfiano>
(let ((s #1='s)) (unintern 's) #1#)
<mfiano>
Or more concisely, (progn #1='s (unintern 's) #1#)
<mfiano>
CL is an interesting language. Very flexible in ways to do things.
<mfiano>
Even more concise: (progn (unintern #1='s) #1#)
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<mfiano>
I suppose you could even change PROGN to IF since UNINTERN is guaranteed to return non-NIL, if you want to keep playing code golf.
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<zacque>
I see, thanks!
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<zacque>
I'm not playing code golf or count the number game. Just trying to consolidating my CL knowledge, so it's very kind of you to verify my naive observation/hypotheses =D
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<grawlinson>
i just ran rt's test suite, 15/30 tests failed
<grawlinson>
did something change since 1990?
<grawlinson>
(specifically kevin rosenberg's cl-rt version)
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<zacque>
Is this a mistake? In the "Notes" of write dictionary entry, it is said (pprint object output-stream) == (write object :stream output-stream :escape t :pretty t). Instead, it should be ... == (progn (terpri output-stream) (write object :stream output-stream :escape t :pretty t)).
<zacque>
Since PPRINT always insert a line break before printing out the pretty version of an object
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<beach>
It could be a mistake. As I recall, notes are not normative.
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<zacque>
Ya, but will still find it confusing if the information in the section is wrong...
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<beach>
Of course.
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<madnificent>
I'm catching errors when constructing an answer for a web service. However, I'd like the full error stack trace to be printed on STDOUT in that case for development purposes. If I hook slime onto the image then I can get a full stack trace, but how do I print that out when catching the error.
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<madnificent>
I'm on SBCL normally and it's fine if it only works there. I've tried using trivial-backtrace but that prints substantially less depth than what I get through slime.
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<jackdaniel>
you are probably doing something like (handler-case (handle) (error () (trivial-backtrace…))
<jackdaniel>
what you want is handler-bind that does not unwind the stack before passing the control to the handler
<madnificent>
jackdaniel: right, that would make sense
<madnificent>
will try. thank you
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<jackdaniel>
sure
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<mrcom>
dbotton: I was probably wrong about Hutchentoot's threads.
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<mrcom>
Just looked at the HT docs, and it says the default Taskmaster creates a thread for each connection. So killing a thread won't run out of task handlers.
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<pjb>
alethkit: but even the implementations targetting POSIX systems, they mostly run on bare hardware, with just a few dependencies in libc and a kernel… They could easily be made to run on raw bare hardware.
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<random-nick>
genera also runs on (its own) bare hardware
<alethkit>
pjb: So has anyone tried to port, say, SBCL to x86 bare metal in the past?
<rotateq>
alethkit: SBCL is an implementation, ran from the start on bare metal afaik and compiles natively.
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<Bike>
"bare metal" can also mean independently of an operating system, and sbcl can't do that
<rotateq>
Bike: Ah, good objection. :)
<alethkit>
I should have clarified: I was indeed referring to being run without an OS
<alethkit>
And I'm not sure attemping to port SBCL is the greatest of ideas
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<Nilby>
I don't think it's even close to easy to run SBCL without an OS. It's tough to get it to be usable with just a kernel. Mezzano is far ahead in that regard.
<semz>
consider also that Mezzano's bare metal is QEMU for the most part
<semz>
since otherwise you'll be implementing drivers all day
<alethkit>
So I guess Mezzano is the way to go
<alethkit>
It's a shame that it's not very active
<dlowe>
you have the power to change that! :)
<alethkit>
True, but I should probably get to grips with CL first
<rotateq>
alethkit: but the good thing is you can rely that it still works
<alethkit>
The CL implementation?
<dlowe>
one useful thing that could be done would be to merge Mezzano with current sbcl
<rotateq>
alethkit: no Mezzano
<alethkit>
Ah, right
<alethkit>
So getting SBCL to work in Mezzano, or getting SBCL to work for embedded development via Mezzano's compiler?
<rotateq>
oh I thought SBCL is used to compile Mezzano
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<dlowe>
I may be wrong but I thought sbcl was Mezzano's internal compiler
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<pjb>
alethkit: nobody prevents you to make it more active.
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<mrcom>
Just saw Eitaro Fukamachi's web post (dated today), and he's saying that Hunchentoot is creating a thread per request. HT docs I just saw say, by default, it's per connection. Tom-A-to/Tom-AH-to, outdated info, or ???.
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<mrcom>
n/m--Tom-A-to/Tom-AH-to. Article later goes into detail, says "...creates a new thread when accepting a connection,... terminates the thread when it's disconnected."
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<mrcom>
So he's pretty much equating request w/ connection.
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<random-nick>
dlowe: mezzano uses its own compiler, and it's nowhere as good as sbcl's
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<dlowe>
all the more reason to merge them
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<dlowe>
though I think about having two compilers sharing the same image and it makes my brain hurt
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