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<kiki_lamb>
If anyone's bored, maybe they can glance at this short CL script and elucidate why my toy macro isn't behaving as expected: https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/3087#3087
<mfiano>
Well you don't specify that it is in that package.
<mfiano>
It probably is being defined in package you loaded. Every file should have an in-package form
<mfiano>
I don't know how script mode works. We usually use an interactive editing environment where we can inspect the state of our images.
<mfiano>
Maybe you can do the same to get an idea of where you went wrong.
<mfiano>
On second thought, it seems you changed the case
<mfiano>
the reader by default reads symbols as all upper-case, but your function is created from a downcased string. You can see the difference in what was printed vs what it expected to find.
<kiki_lamb>
mfiano: Sorry, what package I loaded?
<kiki_lamb>
SBCL ordinarily prints symbols in uppercase even if they are named in lowercase in the code, so that seemed normal to me...
<mfiano>
That is because the reader and printer are configured as such
<Bike>
yeah but the reason for that is that lowercase symbols are /read as/ uppercase, so the actual symbol is uppercase
<mfiano>
when you type 'foo, the reader sees FOO
<Bike>
but you bypassed that by calling intern directly
<kiki_lamb>
Bike: ahhhh.
<Bike>
for doing this kind of thing you might want alexandria:symbolicate so you can skip this case crap
<kiki_lamb>
Indeed, if I upcase the whole string before interning it that does make it work.
<mfiano>
and that way you can use any string designator, not just strings.
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<kiki_lamb>
Naively presuming that interning would perform the same case alterations as the reader was my error.
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<contrapunctus>
Good morning, beach
<contrapunctus>
Hm...I could have sworn the `humanize-duration` system was available on Quicklisp 🤔️
<contrapunctus>
It's not even in my local projects...
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<guest74>
I really dislike one function libraries that name the function the same as the package.
<contrapunctus>
Guest74: what name would you use here?
<guest74>
anything that wouldn't require me to type the same thing twice and isn't 35 characters long. It's like these people are encouraging people to :USE their libraries.
<mfiano>
I don't think I had to type more than 2 characters in a long time.
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<contrapunctus>
Guest74: ah...initials completion style is one hell of a drug 😄️
<guest74>
and a 35 char function is just ugly in code and eats your line space.
<char[m]>
Guest74: import from and local nicknames are better than use
<mfiano>
I think these people are more likely to be encouraging people to use PLNs now that they are widely available.
<mfiano>
and you can attach a function to another symbol.
<guest74>
a lot of libraries that do this have existed since before pln.
<mfiano>
rename-package and setf the fdefinition
<contrapunctus>
I noticed that `serapeum` has a `defalias` ...handy :D
<guest74>
I could do plenty of things, one of them would be not to use something that makes extra work for me everytime I use it.
<mfiano>
If you find yourself using this function that often it sounds like you should be wrapping it up for re-use.
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<guest74>
Would that stop me from disliking one function libraries that name the function the same as the package?
<mfiano>
Which one?
<guest74>
welp, pretty much any of the obvious things mentioned. All I said was I dislike that practice.
<mfiano>
Which function and package has 35 characters?
<patrix>
TIL about package local nicknames. Thanks for mentioning this
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<Nilby>
there are 48 packages in ql that have 35 character names
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<Nilby>
software-evolution-library/deploy-tree-sitter-interface wins the award for the longest package name in QL, with architecture.builder-protocol.universal-builder/test a close second :)
<contrapunctus>
(Maybe I should add some usage examples before I ask for review, though.)
<Nilby>
then there's the very diminutive packages: bp ev fn gt km pg q+ qt re rt tm vk
<contrapunctus>
(Also - another system with the same name as its primary function! Welp.)
<contrapunctus>
If anyone finds that library to be of use, or would like to make any suggestions for it (I'm new to CL), do let me know.
<Nilby>
the nice thing about single function packages with eponymous names, is you can put them all in another package [with a one char nickname]
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<guest74>
contrapunctus: that's some crazy formatting of your code on the site.
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<contrapunctus>
Guest74: ?
<contrapunctus>
Good kind of crazy, I hope? 😄
<guest74>
nope, hard to read crazy. I don't know if it's because of the literate programming or what, but lots of bad indentation.
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<contrapunctus>
Guest74: Hm...I haven't seen LP affect indentation. Any specific instances?
<Nilby>
looks pretty comfy in org to me
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<contrapunctus>
good to hear 🙂️
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<contrapunctus>
I'll probably try and use CLOS instead of that alist...Elisp habits 😅️
<rotateq>
hehe
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<contrapunctus>
Added a tutorial...in course of which I also discovered and fixed a bug.
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<jackdaniel>
is there a good way (for macros) to avoid a warning "deleting unreachable code" when one of macro argument happens to be a constant? (other than checking whether the variable is constant, evaluating it and manually opencoding cases)
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<adlai>
contrapunctus: any chance you could use fewer extrasciial characters?
<adlai>
... and the same goes for Guest74 ; I'm emoji-illiterate and possibly not alone in this regard.
<adlai>
Nilby: you looked only at the actual package names? I'm quite certain there's "QL", although this is only a nickname.
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<adlai>
maybe Guest74 is not sending emoji; either way, I suppose there's some narrow fixnum subtype for how many set eighth bits I can read in an IRC channel before I decide it's not quite where I'll lurk indefinitely.
<beach>
adlai: Does anything bad happen when you read those characters, or is it just that you can't see what they are?
<adlai>
the latter; my IRC setup renders them as the ASCII question mark. (it's usually obvious from context whether the mystery character was indeed only a question mark)
<beach>
I see.
<beach>
In ERC I also can't see most of them, but they render as a little square, so I know not to bother.
<adlai>
I think of my situation as similar to conversing with folks who simultaneously use a nonverbal sideband; every now and then, I bother them with a reminder to make verbally explicit any information that I might not recognize off the wriggling of their cranial nerves.
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<adlai>
is there any overview of how the various freenode CL channels got merged after the migration to this network?
<adlai>
e.g., I doubt I'd find anything in #clcs, although maybe some variant of #clbooks has independent existence.
<adlai>
my expectation appears to be precisely wrong, as usual.
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<karrq>
joe_fen[m]: there's a common-lisp item under init.el :lang, enable that, then when you open a .lisp file it will be in common-lisp-mode. you can C-c C-c to evaluate to the SLY Repl... I found an issue where if I open the minirepl (SPC m ') it says the buffer %b was not found, so when I want to work with CL I usually open a new buffer, rename it to %b (C-x x r), then open my .lisp file (or yet a new buffer, but set the common-lisp-mode manually), and SPC
<karrq>
m ', so the %b buffer gets the REPL and all code evaluated is present
<karrq>
but re-reading your question perhaps you were asking something akin to org babel, but to evaluate cl
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<pjb>
joe_fen[m]: may we assume you already installed a CL implementation on your system?
<pjb>
joe_fen[m]: do you mean evaluate the CL code interactively, or from an emacs lisp function?
<pjb>
or, indeed, from an org document?
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<guest74>
contrapunctus: Sorry, was passed my bedtime, everything seems ok now. Well, except I'm not sure how ppcre works, but are you creating the same scanners every single time you call your function?
<guest74>
adlai: nothing but ascii here.
<contrapunctus>
Guest74: I guess I am 🤔 Should I define them in advance?
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<guest74>
it would seem like a good idea, but I really don't know how ppcre works.
<beach>
contrapunctus: You were asked by adlai to avoid emojis in the channel.
<contrapunctus>
Oh bugger :\
<beach>
I also can't see them in ERC, but I can tell that it is something I don't need to see. For adlai it is worse. They show up as question marks.
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<karrq>
for me it's a striped square. oh well, not that problematic
<_death>
beach: btw recently emacs got emoji support, so coupled with having the right font it works
<beach>
I am not that interested, frankly.
<karrq>
it's not great, but it's not breaking my system or anything of the sorts, it's just a minor annoyance at best
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<guest74>
tbh, that looks more like a config problem on adlai's end.
<contrapunctus>
adlai: it's rather habitual for me + it adds layers of meaning which might otherwise be communicated by tone of voice and facial expression. Why not fix your client to display them? It'd solve your problem permanently and pervasively...
<guest74>
aren't 'emojis' just unicode?
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<contrapunctus>
They are. adlai probably doesn't have the requisite fonts installed...
<_death>
I too don't see any value in using emoji here
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<guest74>
Neither do I, but i'm not sure I see any value in policing/restricting peoples usage.
<guest74>
If everything is replaced by a question mark, that seems to me like it's configured somewhere. Just configure it to insert spaces instead.
<_death>
I don't think there was any policing/restricting.. more like requesting.. since irc does not specify a character set, there are many clients, and ordinary ascii worked for decades of technical communication now..
<_death>
I suppose if I were really annoyed by emoji and contrapunctus continued using it, I'd just /ignore
<guest74>
True, but if it's just a config thing, they could change their config and open themselves up to a bunch of communities they've cut themselves off of. I dunno, that just seems logical to me.
<contrapunctus>
Or run some kind of client-side demojize script...
<guest74>
maybe you should stop being so emotional contra? :)
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<_death>
also, ":)" was invented by a lisper so why not use it ;)
<contrapunctus>
Guest74: ahahaha
<_death>
(note to self, it was ":-)")
<guest74>
tbf, I'm really bothered by over-eager emoji-ization. which seems to happen here when people use one char keywords in their examples.
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<guest74>
So I've found a dead link on cliki that's available on archive.org. Should I just replace the old link with the latest snapshot from archive.org?
<guest74>
at least I think it's dead. I can't access it with ncftp or cl-ftp.
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<pjb>
Guest74: there have been a big spring clean-up of cliki a few years ago, with a lot of "useless" deleted pages…
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<pjb>
joe_fen[m]: then indeed, installing slime (and quicklisp) will give you a sufficiently nice CL development environment in emacs.
<pjb>
joe_fen[m]: you will be able to run CL expression in the slime repl: M-x slime RET to start it.
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<guest74>
pjb: I don't understand the pertinence of what you said.
<q3cpma>
Hello, what do CL people do when they want RW locks? Since neither bordeaux nor SBCL have them
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<Alfr>
q3cpma, use two locks and a counter, then hide the ugliness in a macro.
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<q3cpma>
Alfr: ehhh. Having to do the complex condvar and semaphore machinery isn't very fun
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<Alfr>
q3cpma, bt already provides locks, thus it isn't hard either.
<q3cpma>
It's probably not hard to make, but to optimize
<Alfr>
q3cpma, if you workload would be dominated by locking overhead, then you may have to reevaluate your overall design and maybe have less shared mutable things.
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<Alfr>
q3cpma, (memory and other things permitting)
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<q3cpma>
Well, thanks for the help, doubt the state of things will change overnight, so I'll do as you recommend and implement it
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<Alfr>
q3cpma, note that there could be something suitable out there already, I didn't look for such to answer your question.
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<minion>
Remembered. I'll tell q3cpma when he/she/it next speaks.
<minion>
jmercouris, memo from Bike: i think you need a colon?
<jmercouris>
Thanks Bike
<Bike>
no prob
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<adlai>
contrapunctus: it's equivalent to modulating your tone of voice according to patterns that only your friends recognize, while speaking to the public. sure, you have freedom of speech. do you also wink at cameras?
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<mfiano>
Can a conforming implementation allow FIXNUM to be specialized on for a generic function? This is a type, not a system class.
<Bike>
"Individual implementations may be extended to define other type specifiers to have a corresponding class. Individual implementations may be extended to add other subclass relationships and to add other elements to the class precedence lists as long as they do not violate the type relationships and disjointness requirements specified by this
<Bike>
in other words, it's ok for an implementation to make fixnum a class.
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<mfiano>
Ok, I guess the behavior I'm seeing is dependent on the implementation then. SBCL allows such a thing and I was surprised, and wasn't able to find that passage.
<Bike>
yeah. conforming code can't rely on fixnum being a class.
<mfiano>
What I really want is a non-negative fixnum anyway, so I'll have to do additional runtime type checking on my own.