ArmbianHelper changed the topic of #armbian to: armbian - Linux for ARM development boards | www.armbian.com | Github: github.com/armbian | Commits: #armbian-commits | Developer talk: #armbian-devel | Forum/Twitter feed: #armbian-rss | Type 'help' for help | Logs: -> irc.armbian.com
<argonautx>
compilation.log is more then 5MB large and ends with: 1mdpkg-buildpackage: [0m[1;31merror[0m: syntax error in debian/control at line 41: duplicate field Package found
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<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> > And shit here is only your attitude which haven changed from the past and probably never be. But we are all get used to it :lol: You really fits this crowd here perfectly. Yep, time to register.
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> >First mistake on your side and we can ban you, ok? Gee, glad I avoided the forum kek
<IgorPec>
that was not 1st mistake but extreme pressure from "customers"
<IgorPec>
a lot of people doesn't understand that this is forum. Not a free technical support
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> It does make me wonder, is there a point to armbian when the current efforts could just be directed to the debian ARM ports team?
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Debian has a lot more resources, too
<IgorPec>
haha
<vpeter_>
And what is forum for then? Not for help?
<IgorPec>
"I've spent around 10 hours on this issue."
<IgorPec>
ok, you don't know that some "simple question" require a day to be solved
<IgorPec>
usually takes days. Than multimply this by 1000 cases
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<vpeter_>
Sure. But no one is forcing you to do that. But moaning on every user question for help is not cool either.
<IgorPec>
and add that people wants instant gratification you get a bomb
<IgorPec>
no one? do you read forums
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Perhaps it is a case of making the device vendors actually support their devices
<IgorPec>
its a mixture of actual and emotional blackmailing
<IgorPec>
from people that contribute nothing toward us
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Don't you think you're putting off people who would actually want to contribute?
<vpeter_>
And you are moaning again :(
<IgorPec>
that is purely your problem
<IgorPec>
you can contribute to debian as you already figured out. or to mainstram
<IgorPec>
i know this takes collateral damage, but until you are on the side of exploters, its difficult to get something
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> I swear the OpenWRT dev channel was friendlier than this... oh, nothing
<vpeter_>
I will never understand how Armbian works.
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> It's just some shell build scripts
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> You see, they aren't using makefiles which I just find odd
<vpeter_>
I meant communication not the sw :-)
<IgorPec>
communiction is adjusted
<vpeter_>
For me it looks like totally against everyone who doesn't pay or contribute something.
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Unlike OpenWRT where you need to add in some lines and create a dts file, modify a patch file, and there you go, ported a device over, armbian is ???, it seems
<vpeter_>
Why not just close forum then.
<IgorPec>
oinkfu: the aim of armbian is not to get it on all devices that are possible.
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> I never implied that
<IgorPec>
and check openwrt - how many of those devices are really usable? half, 1/3?
<IgorPec>
do they do any HW adjustement?
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> What? They are usable, at least as a router, that's just bullshit
<IgorPec>
or are focusing towards userland, protocols?
<IgorPec>
oinkfu: BS is when you don't listen
<IgorPec>
bananapi r1 is not usable as anything
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> What is your native language? There seems to be a barrier
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> or is this just your way of thinking? yikes
<IgorPec>
for example. and there are more of such crap devices on the lisrt
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Anything is crap when you throw kernel 5.x.x and bloat onto it (1GB image, seriously?), erh
<IgorPec>
oinkfu: you don't understand
<vpeter_>
I think we can agree only Armbian is the correct :-)
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Needs to be backed by 3 stressed devs, not thousands like debian/openwrt is
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> No, you don't get it
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> The OpenWRT wiki is out of date
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> What's next? Gonna bring up how RouterOS has buggy IPv6 support yet everyone uses it?
<IgorPec>
what i am trying to tell you that - low level support for some devices is terrible, some has design flaws and some are just never meant to serve as a router
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> I know
<IgorPec>
and openwert did exactly nothing and also should not do, to fix that
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> vpeter_: I think Igor needs a new name? Armbian King?
<IgorPec>
nice name ;) no more arguments?
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Anyway, let me go and bin my orpi for a RPI that has proper support
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> yes
<IgorPec>
and why are you telling me this?
<IgorPec>
i don't care whart you will use
<vpeter_>
He already is a king.
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Have you considered stepping down? Why are you taking things so literally?
<IgorPec>
why not?
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Okay, fine, King, when armbian is dead in the next 5 years, and someone has forked it, I will personally remember that Igor let armbian rot
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> This language barrier is shocking, you really should let someone take over the project, or do you need the attention?
<IgorPec>
it shocking that you dare to question
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Oh no, the King has been slain!
<IgorPec>
are you a customer?
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> No, I saw your forum posts and found it funny
<IgorPec>
what do you want then?
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> You remind me of women in OSS
<IgorPec>
OSS is one thing?
<IgorPec>
and you know everything?
<IgorPec>
also the context of that rant? / blackmainling
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> How am I blackmailing you?
<IgorPec>
not you, but look out for that posts
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> That wasn't blackmail, that was a fucking argument
<IgorPec>
so you will understand. SBC world is full of people that doesn't have your mindset
<IgorPec>
have "rpi mindset" and knows absolutely nothing
<IgorPec>
but those are actually not the worse. people that knows they know something
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> DO YOU SEE THE PROBLEM?
<IgorPec>
i am the problem, ofc
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Sure, call everyone an RPI fanboy, then when they don't want to help out, you cry on the forums
<vpeter_>
SO openwrt devs knows nothing either?
<IgorPec>
rpi users = people with very low knowledge on linux
<IgorPec>
openwrt has 1% of such users
<IgorPec>
less
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Now...
<IgorPec>
do we agree at least here?
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> I agree that you are a narcissist, yes
<IgorPec>
can you find any pressure / demand on openwrt forums that they need to fix something or birn support on X
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Yeah
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Looots of it
<IgorPec>
psyhological knowledge as well, this is just awesome ;)
<vpeter_>
I would say people are more nice on openwrt forum and users just say "please fix this and this". What is a difference with armbian forum is that you write in response "first please pay".
<IgorPec>
please pay = go away and fix it anywhere you wanrt
<IgorPec>
"we can't address your problem"
<IgorPec>
"it is too expensive for our budget"
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Wait, wait, think for a moment
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> All of this time you are ranting here could be used to make armbian good
<vpeter_>
So what exactly is your business then? I'm sorry but I don't understand the philosophy here.
<IgorPec>
i know what we can do as group
<IgorPec>
we can push 20% over that, but we can't push 500%
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> @lanefu >Is it illegal to connect to torrent trackers in Australia? No, not at all.
<IgorPec>
if you want make armbian good - start
<IgorPec>
don't need to tell me that
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Why should I bother with a project that has a fucking King?
<IgorPec>
armbian is just a few of scripts, so 99 is general FOSS contribution
<IgorPec>
so you don't contribute to any king
<IgorPec>
linux also has a king but you are fine?
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Do you have a problem parsing sarcasm and is your lexer defective?
<IgorPec>
defective
<IgorPec>
just because simple explantation are better to swallow
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> In Soviet Russia, armbian owns you
<IgorPec>
why?
<IgorPec>
how?
<IgorPec>
sources are open
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> oh, my guess that you were from Eastern Europe was right kek
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> You know, you would net a lot more profit if you just moved to Russia and ran one of those "groups"
<IgorPec>
but i don't seek more profits
<IgorPec>
and i already have a job. what dou you care so much about me?
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> I find it funny that you call RPI users n00bs, but you're a Ubuntu user
<IgorPec>
i should be using arch to not be pussy? this talk is getting really low
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> >arch
<IgorPec>
"rpi users" are synonym
<IgorPec>
call it whatever you like. but from that group comes most of "i am new to linux"
<IgorPec>
also expters are using it, no doubt
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> No, I have a solution for these "customers"
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Just purge the forum vhost file and restart nginx, easy fix
<IgorPec>
you are not the first one with such genious idea
<IgorPec>
i got many easy fix advices everday, but R&D is everything but easy
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> I watched https://yewtu.be/watch?v=s_ODdKO0YW0 and why do I sense donation begging at the end of the video? Jesus, if armbian needs donations, go and ask some big tech company for resources and merge with the debian project
<IgorPec>
or adjust project with resources we have?
<IgorPec>
but we are again down to propositions and ideas. we are full of them. But if you want to find money, you have to work hard
<IgorPec>
to get funds to cover for the seller from Aliexpress
<Armbian-Discord>
<rpardini> breaks my heart to wake up and read this stuff. oinkfu is the 1000th example of "go ask for money" unawareness and disrespect. I think Igor is already armored from too many such discussions to be hurt by this specific one, but it's still horrible to watch. deeply sorry
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Why are you white knighting for him?
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> Are you afraid that you might get kicked out if you don't? :^)
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> anyway, enough of this shit, I'm tired of it
<IgorPec>
oinkfu: didn't you said above that you don't understand armbian ... but you still keep giving us lectures?
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> what?
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> I know armbian, I run it on an orpi
<Armbian-Discord>
<rpardini> let's not engage this, not worth it.
* IgorPec
tunes out into the code ...
<Armbian-Discord>
<rpardini> has actual work on Armbian to do
<Armbian-Discord>
<oinkfu> sets his eyes on Mr Gareth
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<juri_>
wow! that was a lot of drama. :)
<IgorPec>
we get drama here and there. would be strange if there were none ;)
<juri_>
agreed. and to be fair, while i recognize the gruffness oinkfu is talking about.. i've been doing this for 25 years now. it's just a self-defense dial, for when your projeect is popular-in-users, but not popular in devs. a symptom that becomes a cause, if you're not careful.. but i'm pretty immune to it. :)
<juri_>
and yeah, i'm three days in, and i'm down to "i think some kernel change between 5.10.43 and 5.10.60 broke the banana pi pro sata, but not the cubieboard2 sata..". embedded stuff requires effort.
<IgorPec>
yep. and we are talking about most matured and simple hardware
<juri_>
probably isn't helping that the raspberry pi "democratized" embedded development.. so you're the first person from the 'real' embedded world that many of these people run into.
<IgorPec>
rpi made a lot of damages to dev community
<juri_>
it continues to do so, with it's walled garden approach to drivers.
<IgorPec>
we are much closer to the embedded world ... then "debian". but how to explain that in plain enghlish?
* juri_
nods.
<juri_>
aha. my work yesterday is not done. bad query was pulling 52 active issuen, when there seems like 267.
<juri_>
I'll go through and complete the work.
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<IgorPec>
ok
<juri_>
i was only looking at 'bug' types of issues.
<IgorPec>
aslo that re-tagging task which you have mentioned. is it better that stays as story + subtask, or is better story + tasks
<IgorPec>
is there any point differentiang this?
<juri_>
I don't think there is. normally, i would have broken it into several separate tasks. in SCRUM mindset: if something is too big, no-one will work on it, or if they do, progress will not be tracked, and everyone will be demotivated. so, breaking things into smaller steps helps.
<juri_>
user stories and tasks fight a lot. developers think in tasks, while user stories have a different standard of done, and sizing.
<IgorPec>
yeah, i have some scrum mindset
<IgorPec>
and together with other people we are using this in daily jobs
<IgorPec>
but one thing is following and doing on tasks, other is creating and managing tasks
<juri_>
I'm a big fan of having a good task template.
<IgorPec>
this is something we need to done over and over again
<IgorPec>
like cycling task. is there a better way then just openning a new one each time
<juri_>
I'd say make this part of a release process, but i think i don't know your release process well.
<IgorPec>
lets say that this tasks is repeate under each release, mainly is, but not always
<IgorPec>
always some other job is done, but the task is "adjusting boot loader patches and configs"
<IgorPec>
its a cycling activities
<juri_>
sure. remember that scrum is made for a 'release early, release often' train. if you're not releasing at least every 3 weeks or so, it has it's sharp edges.
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<IgorPec>
we cartainly not. and we would hardly manage to follow scrum due to the fact that teams are amateur, time diff, small
<IgorPec>
its complicated machinery and whole logging system is getting refactored to get better overview
<argonautx>
should I write this bug report on github, with all log files?
<IgorPec>
add those pastebin which addded here
<IgorPec>
config + logs + how to recreate
<IgorPec>
Title can be "packages are not created"
<parabyte>
IgorPec, yesterday i was not aware of signed uboot
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<argonautx>
schwarzwald
<argonautx>
oh no sorry again, I have a buggy KVM switch
<Armbian-Discord>
<SirRFI> Following subpage says about video and 3D acceleration for this device: https://www.armbian.com/tinkerboard/ Which links to deprecated/superseded thread/script, which links to newer one saying that this stuff is now official, but in older release, and that new stuff will go to newer releases. I find this a little confusion - do latest releases contain it, including non-GUI ones?
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<argonautx>
created, please tell me what kind of logs I should add
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> argonautx: its fine. lets wait for a person to look up
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<Armbian-Discord>
<Daddy> hi for the odroidn2+ is ubuntu or debian preferred?
<archetech>
both
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<Armbian-Discord>
<Daddy> ah ok so doesn't really matter
<archetech>
what board and what apps decides that
<Armbian-Discord>
<Daddy> I have a odroid and planning to run it without a desktop
<Armbian-Discord>
<Daddy> Wondering if Ubuntu is stable enough
<argonautx>
thank you guys
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<juri_>
Damn. the sata is just killing these little first-run bpi pro boards.
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<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> how killing? it draws too much current?
<juri_>
yep. they're all unstable when the disks really get going, resulting in them powering off.
<IgorPec>
most of those board have failed powering design .nothing new ;)
<IgorPec>
power hdd separate not from banana and it should be fine
<juri_>
... I am.
<IgorPec>
and still failing?
<juri_>
yep.
<IgorPec>
now this is strange
<juri_>
again, reproduces on all three. :P
<juri_>
tho the one that's got the newer silkscreen fails far less frequently.
<IgorPec>
kernel 5.15.y too ?
<juri_>
nope. still on 5.10.43
<juri_>
nothing newer works.
<IgorPec>
this problems needs to get broader attention
<IgorPec>
forum
<juri_>
officially, these boards are not supported.
<IgorPec>
one banana is
<juri_>
now, if AR-1054 was solved, i'd be down in the guts of this kernel by now.. :P
<IgorPec>
that can't happen fast since we don't have a solution
* juri_
nods.
<juri_>
i think my next trick will be powering the board through J1.
<IgorPec>
i put priority up, that's all i can do now
<IgorPec>
also try one plain debian
<juri_>
according to the linux-sunxi wiki that's supposed to be stabler.
<IgorPec>
this will rull out our patches
<juri_>
fair enough.
<IgorPec>
i got to go. tomorrow
<juri_>
later. :)
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<NeonLightning>
i'm using a rockpro64 using the rk3399 chip i can't seem to figure out how to edit boot.cmd or armbianenv.txt to change it to be by default hdmi, no autodetect, 1024x768-32@60
<NeonLightning>
disp.screen0_output_mode isn't in boot.cmd and when i added it there was no difference. i've added saveenv to the end of boot.cmd and i've rebuilt boot.src