Werner changed the topic of #armbian to: armbian - Linux for ARM development boards | www.armbian.com | Github: github.com/armbian | Commits: #armbian-commits | Developer talk: #armbian-devel | Forum/Twitter feed: #armbian-rss | Type 'help' for help | Logs: -> irc.armbian.com
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<Jookia> is there a process for adding a board to armbian?
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<steev> tonymac32: random thought, since you're the original author - https://github.com/armbian/build/blob/master/patch/kernel/archive/rockchip64-5.14/overlays-00-add-oc-opp-rk3399.patch - instead of throwing that into a dtbo, why not do it more like https://github.com/pyavitz/debian-image-builder/blob/feature/patches/rockchip/3399/edge/rk3399-opp-overclock-2GHz-turbo-mode.patch which allows you to simply echo 1 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/boost
<steev> to turn it on, and then echo 0 to turn it off
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<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> make a PR
<Armbian-Discord> <k​prasadvnsi> How is the gnome shell performance on a rk3399 based SBC. Is it usable?
<IgorPec> i think it is. check nicods videos
<IgorPec> he probably made some on gnome
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<tinyweasel> I have to wonder now. Orange Pis seem to be more expensive to obtain for me. I feel like an RPI v4 would be better than the latest orange pi board, really
<tinyweasel> but hmm
<tinyweasel> the RPI zero doesn't have ethernet on-board, for instance
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<tinyweasel> oh god
<tinyweasel> 10mb/s with a 1m block size
<tinyweasel> these SD cards suck
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<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Tinyweasel what's your use case
<tinyweasel> LXC, etc., but also just general use
<tinyweasel> I have plenty of servers I'd use for LXC, but I want to play with ARM
<tinyweasel> RPI is a bit too boring
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Yabs alternate https://github.com/ThomasKaiser/sbc-bench
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Yeah right now cheap SBCs are getting harder to get so it's really annoying
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> What's your budget
<tinyweasel> like, I would want an ARM motherboard I could put in a 1U chassis ideally
<tinyweasel> budget is up to $120 AUD, I suppose
<tinyweasel> let's just say it's around $100 USD, I think
<tinyweasel> ooh
<tinyweasel> someone's selling an intel ARM motherboard for cheap
<tinyweasel> oh, wait, it's DDR2...
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Also useless
<tinyweasel> yep, 256MB of blazing fast memory
<tinyweasel> yeah, I'm aware
<tinyweasel> u-boot, etc
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Honestly go look at odroid HC4
<tinyweasel> I used to do some basic bcm63xx porting with openwrt
<tinyweasel> hmm
<tinyweasel> I have some 3D printers, so I could do that RPI blade server chassis
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> The A55 cores are pretty fast. 4 gigs ram. And had real pci storage
<tinyweasel> hmm
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Odroid N2+ probably still fastest raw CPU performance
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> If you're using USB devices you need a powered hub because of a design fail on their side
<tinyweasel> those gigabyte ARM motherboards look tempting, but I can't seem to find them on most sites, for sale
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Probably ancient CPU cores or... Actually very expensive and ancient
<tinyweasel> apparently ampere altra
<tinyweasel> oh, wait, yeah
<tinyweasel> it's totally out of budget
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Those are legit
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> But yeah lol way out of budget
<tinyweasel> hmm
<tinyweasel> I could get an ARM dev board, possibly
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Solid run honeycomb is really the only entry level "big" arm box if spend money on
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Really just find the best rk3399 you can get is kind of the default advisd
<tinyweasel> yeah, hmm
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Rockpi4. Opi4, rockpro64 etc
<tinyweasel> the intel xscale board is a bit interesting for learning, though
<tinyweasel> it's just redboot
<tinyweasel> but it's from 2009, so erh
<tinyweasel> but yeah
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> OG cavium thunderX is probably oldest I'd go
<tinyweasel> those SBCs will have to be used, probably
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Anyway SoCs I'd look at. Allwinner H6, s905x3, rk3399, A311D/S922x
<tinyweasel> yeah, I'll take a look
<tinyweasel> the RK3399 seems interesting
<Jookia> imx8 is pretty cool too
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Yeah I don't have any NXP chips in my collection.
<tinyweasel> ah, banana pi
<tinyweasel> yeah, hmm
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Tinyweasel rk3399 pretty much has best general support these days and the only SOC I'd used for desktop despite S922 being faster
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Not much love for bpi in these walls
<tinyweasel> thing is, I could get these things from china and have possible issues, but I could get a RPI 8GB version, though, for the same price
<Jookia> i used an imx6q for a desktop for a few years
<tinyweasel> oh, well, I suppose
<tinyweasel> I should look into STM32 + ethernet shields
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Tinyweasel yeah go look at benchmarks I sent you
<Jookia> stm32 isn't very powerful
<tinyweasel> I'm aware
<Jookia> idk why you'd need an ethernet shield for one though
<tinyweasel> oh, for remote controlled relays to turn PCs off/on
<tinyweasel> I am going to use an RPI, but hmm
<Jookia> no i mean like, doesn't stm32 support ethernet?
<Jookia> stm32mp1
<tinyweasel> yeah, mine certainly can't
<tinyweasel> well, I'll see
<tinyweasel> thanks for the advice, lanefu
<Jookia> linux runs pretty good too on it
<tinyweasel> yep, mine's just lacking enough memory, I think
<Jookia> oh, what board?
<tinyweasel> stm32 nucleo F411RE
<Jookia> oh, that's a microcontroller
<tinyweasel> hmm
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Tinyweasel if you want some inspiration https://github.com/lanefu/sbc-gpio-pcf857x
<tinyweasel> yeah, makes sense why
<Jookia> microprocessors are better and run linux
<Jookia> at least, if you want to run a linux on it
<tinyweasel> lanefu: got a similar module board coming, actually
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> But honestly if you're just switching AC power I'd just get an esp8266 / esp32 device ex: sonoff 4ch
<tinyweasel> ah, yep
<tinyweasel> it's DC, though
<Jookia> not to bite the trolls, but i severely hope ARM doesn't get in an x86-style UEFI/BIOS situation
<tinyweasel> there are people who think ARM is more locked down than x86
<tinyweasel> they are literally nuts, and have no idea what they're doing
<Jookia> fancy boot firmware is a headache
<tinyweasel> yep
<Jookia> uefi on desktop x86 can't even use a serial port
<tinyweasel> yikes
<tinyweasel> yeah, I have UEFI turned off/BIOS is the default mode on most systems I own
<Jookia> BIOS isn't much better
<tinyweasel> still better than UEFI, I suppose
<tinyweasel> oh, and wow, the logs are live? jesus
<Jookia> idk why it would be better
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Logs?
<Jookia> u-boot/barebox on x86 would be pretty cool
<tinyweasel> there should be a way to opt out of logging...
<Jookia> but you still have the headache of not having removable SD cards
<tinyweasel> erh, hotswap SSDs?
<tinyweasel> just get one of those 5" bays
<Jookia> those aren't really external
<Jookia> and you still have to configure UEFI/BIOS boot order and garbage like that
<tinyweasel> yep
<Jookia> having an SD card containing the firmware like BIOS/UEFI and OS would be nicer
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> You can opt out of logs You just do /leave #armbian
<tinyweasel> uh, huh...
<tinyweasel> yeah, you're still in the archived logs, etc
<tinyweasel> which will no doubt be scraped by 1000s of bots
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<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Whitequark has ran that service forever haven't heard of any fallout
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<Armbian-Discord> <k​prasadvnsi> I am having a major problem. Just updated my system to Ubuntu 21.10 and now Armbian refused to run.
<Werner> Then good luck fixing. Never played with Impish and non-LTS releases haven't ever been supported anyways
<Armbian-Discord> <k​prasadvnsi> Is 21.04 a LTS release?
<Werner> No. 20.04 aka Focal is
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> Such upgrade was never tested nor its support. 22.04 will be
<Armbian-Discord> <k​prasadvnsi> I can't rollback. Fuck 😭
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> Well, not even on stock pc ubunu
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> If you have btrfs or zfs root with enabled snapshots .. perhaps
<Heisath> See it as a learning lesson. In the future, back up your system before upgrading ;)
<Heisath> @IgorPec Meeting in an hour, right?
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> Yes
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<Armbian-Discord> <k​prasadvnsi> Nop, going to patch Armbian 😂
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Haha
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Yeah hate to say it but I won't apt update.my.remote stuff that's at family
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<jock> hello!
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<Heisath> Hi jock
<Armbian-Discord> <k​prasadvnsi> That unreasonable complexity is the thing I hate about Armbian build. :p
<Werner> The script does the building for you. I don't see any complexity in doing that.
<IgorPec> heya
<Werner> #startmeeting Armbian 21.11 (Sambar)
<ArmbianHelper> Meeting started Sat Oct 16 14:01:01 2021 UTC. The chair is Werner. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
ArmbianHelper changed the topic of #armbian to: (Meeting topic: Armbian 21.11 (Sambar))
<ArmbianHelper> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
<Werner> #topic check-in
ArmbianHelper changed the topic of #armbian to: check-in (Meeting topic: Armbian 21.11 (Sambar))
<Heisath> Hello. Am here.
<IgorPec> me2
<Werner> I'm where, who to? :)
<Werner> s/to/too
<ArmbianHelper> Werner meant to say: I'm where, who too? :)
<lanefu> Hi
<jock> lo
<Heisath> So much fun today :)
<Werner> Aight enough of the intro. I think late topics can be skipped too
<Werner> #topic FYI
ArmbianHelper changed the topic of #armbian to: FYI (Meeting topic: Armbian 21.11 (Sambar))
<Werner> #info Release may - depending on decision - be shifted/skipped due to latest news and we are late with meeting anyways
<IgorPec> yes. alternative is to produce a release, just as minimal as possible
<IgorPec> most of linux distros do just that
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<IgorPec> build, check what was upgreaded and put that into the release files
<Heisath> I would go for skip. Other stuff can be just a dot release of the last one.
<Heisath> If we do full release ppl will expect changes to be in there
<lanefu> I vote skip
<Werner> I'd go for skip as well. There is no need to put additional pressure on us
<lanefu> Skipping the release is the shot across the bow about our changes
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<IgorPec> ok. so how to communicate this efficently ?
<IgorPec> like to use this as an advantage
<Werner> #agreed 21.01 released be skipped
<lanefu> Well I think next step is to clean up and add the support plan / document I proposed and place in armbian documentation
<Werner> Communication is pretty straight forward IMHO. Fixes come via regular update anyways and as further reason point to news
<Heisath> I'd say make announcement (on all channels) in form of: Due to the changes to supported board status we are skipping the 21.11 release. This will give us more time to make sure supported boards run fine and gives you a chance to become a maintainer for "YOUR" board before it gets CSC
<IgorPec> ok, so we move the focus to make those changes right
<lanefu> Yeah
<Werner> #topic board maintainer discussion
ArmbianHelper changed the topic of #armbian to: board maintainer discussion (Meeting topic: Armbian 21.11 (Sambar))
<IgorPec> we probably need some unified action plan for removal
<Heisath> <- Will maintain mvebu family. Helios4, ClearfogPro/Base.
<IgorPec> like asking out for a maintainer, explaining consequences, asking again, remove
<Werner> There was a sheet somewhere with all boards and their designated maintainers... lanefu?
<lanefu> Yeah
<Werner> Ah great
<lanefu> This is the list we already got maintainers
<Heisath> I would only ask once. Post announcement, include list, ask ppl to step up otherwise CSC, remove.
<lanefu> So we say what's going away and give people an opportunity to step up and be a maintainer
<Heisath> Asking twice gets us nothing except more work.
<IgorPec> asking twice is because people doesn't look and read
<lanefu> IMHO we already asked and that's why we have that list
<Heisath> Yeah but ppl will always only say something once boards are gone.
<lanefu> To there's no reason to ask in advance s second time
<Werner> #info each and every board needs a dedicated maintainer (person). Otherwise its support status will be changed to CSC
<IgorPec> our communication is poor
<Heisath> I agree.
<IgorPec> its not enough to write an article or make a twit
<Werner> Include the info in releases at bootup?
<Heisath> We'd need bigger announcement directly on armbian.com
<IgorPec> as well
<Heisath> The small article is not really visible
<lanefu> Doesn't matter reality is the "maintainers" we're involved in the contributor forum
<IgorPec> we need to develop communication channel(s)
<IgorPec> something like i have proposed in forums
<IgorPec> it has to be some dedicated person for that job
<lanefu> Yeah "community organizer" I think is what we are recruiting for
<IgorPec> if we don't have it, we should at least have a role which can be rolled to someone that says "i want to help"
<Werner> More like communication organizer
<IgorPec> instead of releasing, i would propose to focus on tasks that will help us
<IgorPec> and this role is amoung those that helps us
<Werner> #action add "community/communication organizer" role for those who want to help
<Heisath> I suggest adding a blog thing to our main website. Things like the recent newsflash get posted there and linked from twitter, forum, whatever. Needs better visibility. Newsflash is easy to overlook. Maybe add button between Download and Forum.
<Werner> I don't think some kind a blog is necessary or good at all since it would need constant maintenance and filling with content. I think it would be sufficient to have news more visible on website
<IgorPec> i am going to get some web / html experts to improve website content / ux wise
<IgorPec> AR-909 is a collector of ideas
<ArmbianHelper> AR-909 [Story] "Website improvements" reported by Igor Pecovnik at 2021-09-13. Status: To Do
<Heisath> Yeah I did not mean blog as in "we write there periodically" but this is just not visible at all: https://ibb.co/PDCmxPW
<Heisath> Add a button in the navbar. Call it NEWS if you dont like blog.
<lanefu> Yeah we should make a formal post on forum referencing it and the other (new) documentation. And also on the download pages
<IgorPec> well, that's why we need some media department
<lanefu> Haha
<IgorPec> what we need is unified way of communicating
<IgorPec> and use all available channels
<IgorPec> only that provides real effect. mass comm is effective
<lanefu> Yeah. So you want to click button once and publish in many places?
<JMCC> Hi, sorry my user was marked as "away" but I was reading
<IgorPec> if possible, but this is not a tecnical problem, more logistical / organisatial
<JMCC> Just one question: would the suppoprted-to-CSC also be possible the other way around if, for example, in the future someone steps in to support a board that has become CSC?
<IgorPec> copy / paste from twitter to facebook is not a problem
<IgorPec> CSC to supported, yes, why not?
<Werner> JMCC, of course if somebody steps in as maintainer
<JMCC> Then probably communicating one time, when people complain take opportunity to suggest becoming a maintiner. Sometimes people only react that way
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<IgorPec> also another idea to discuss ... making only one userland official?
<JMCC> I mean, ask for maintainers once, then trhow to when people complain for some board has become CSC, make another round of asking
<lanefu> Yeah I'm with you on that. Like only ship debian as stable
<IgorPec> like providing only Ubuntu LTS builds and beta with latest Ubuntu, the rest, DIY
<lanefu> Yeah LTS Ubuntu works too
<IgorPec> LOL. you debian, i ubuntu ;)=
<lanefu> I'm fine with whatever
<IgorPec> Ubuntu require less fixing
<lanefu> Honestly debian people are more opinionated and can build their own
<IgorPec> ok, Lane is with me. What about others?
<lanefu> So yeah I'm with you on headless Ubuntu LTS. Being only "stable" release
<IgorPec> so it will only be Armbian OS
<Werner> I abstain
<Heisath> So no more desktops?
<IgorPec> desktop is different story.
<Heisath> We just added them one or two release back and now throw them out?
<IgorPec> no, no
<Heisath> Lane said headless only stable
<lanefu> Desktops will be periodic / nightly
<lanefu> No stable
<Heisath> ok fine
<lanefu> See doc
<Heisath> nobody reads that
<IgorPec> hehe
<lanefu> It's nicely outlined and heirarchical
<lanefu> I spent like 30 hours writing it
<Werner> #action only one stable userspace
<Heisath> @lane where do i find it?
<lanefu> Scroll up
<lanefu> Or scroll down lol
<IgorPec> even our internal comm needs improvements
<IgorPec> ok. lets focus
<lanefu> Yeah.
<Heisath> Yeah sorry but I wont expect docs somewhere on lanes site.
<IgorPec> this was not released yet
<Heisath> Ok but where in there is stuff about desktop? Am i blind?
<lanefu> Heisath: yeah it's there as a draft and linked in our contributor forum
<Heisath> ah great. Found it, was just blind
<IgorPec> "Armbian will publish and distribute “periodic / nightly” CLI and Desktop images"
<IgorPec> now we didn't specify which desktops. for xfce we don't need to explain
<IgorPec> xfce stays default desktop
<IgorPec> for others we need to discuss
<JMCC> So, according to the docs, no more downloadable images for WIP/CSC?
<Heisath> Correct.
<lanefu> Correct
<lanefu> WIP will get nightlies
<lanefu> But not CSC
<Heisath> To help only have ppl use WIP/CSC who might also contribute. Keep the noobs away from WIP/CSC boards.
<IgorPec> CSC will get link to archive
<lanefu> *WIP will get nightlies of headless to be specific no desktop
<IgorPec> what about if this is pinebook X? :)
<lanefu> Same. I'm realizing the people that go through the pain of making unofficial images are the ones that should do the desktops for most
<lanefu> They seek the attention and keeps the pain away from us
<IgorPec> not sure about that. they do exactly nothing but wait
<IgorPec> pain in term of support perhaps
<IgorPec> but on the other hand, we should look forward with this. what are long term pros and cons
<lanefu> Anyway the difference is what we publish vs what is available in build tool
<IgorPec> build tool will continue to have all crap, just as CSC / EOS
<lanefu> Yup
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<IgorPec> ok, any other have concerns about?
<lanefu> Big point of this besides workload and pain is to keep the quality level of our published images very high. And that's what will lead to gold and platinum support opportunities
<IgorPec> yes
<lanefu> *besides minimizing
<JMCC> Regarding less support pain, we get tons of support requests for crap such as TV boxes or long unsuported boards, kile Rock64, so we must count on habving some of that still
<JMCC> *like Rock64
<IgorPec> this role we should give to community
<IgorPec> forum needs changes
<IgorPec> we don't want to kill community support
<IgorPec> just it has to be clear Armbian maintainers are not dealing with that thing
<IgorPec> this part is actually more complicated then deciding which board to drop support
<lanefu> Yeah it's a good point really want to emphasize the forum is self-organzing and community serving community
<IgorPec> yes. and if there are strong enough interest to foloow the rules of "supported" technically anything from EOS/CSC can become supported. But this process needs to be well known and polished
<Werner> Then the bug tracker for boards that are actually supported should be removed from forums. This makes diving stronger
<IgorPec> yes
<Werner> *dividing
<lanefu> Werner: agreed
<Heisath> Where to got with bugtracking on supported boards then?
<IgorPec> forum needs refactoring
<Heisath> *go
<lanefu> Jira
<Werner> Or Github
<IgorPec> Jira is more powerful
<lanefu> I'd rather jira be source of truth
<Heisath> Problem: Supported board bugs might be raised by not the supporter. Can / Should randoms post to Jira?
<Werner> #idea removed official bug tracker from forums
<IgorPec> random posts to jira is no go
<Heisath> yeah
<Heisath> So how would average joe report bug on supported board? Which we try to give good support to
<IgorPec> now we have a big grey zone called foru
<Heisath> Github issues was meant to be problems with build script only if I am correct.
<IgorPec> yes
<IgorPec> and that should stays that way
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<Werner> We could create a new repository for supported images/boards that collects bug repots
<IgorPec> one idea is to move board specific stuff into separate repository and have them there
<IgorPec> i think tonymac32 proposed something similar in the past
<Heisath> I just don't think getting rid of an easy channel to report bugs on supported boards is a good idea, if we want high quality of support on those boards.
<IgorPec> it would also produce less noise on main build system
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<IgorPec> move config/boards config/sources and patches to separate forum
<IgorPec> sorry repository
<Werner> I'd say using Github would be an even easier channel to report an issue rather than forum
<lanefu> See "criteria for supported" in my doc
<Heisath> "A named individual must commit to providing “Best Effort” support for their SBC on the Armbian forums"
<IgorPec> so we don't need it?
<IgorPec> and leave as it is now
<lanefu> Yeah idea is there's a trusted individual in forum space that triages true bugs that need escalating
<IgorPec> ... and use jira for tracking it
<lanefu> Yeah
<Heisath> Just make maintainer forum mod for the bugtracking subforum.
<lanefu> Yeah
<IgorPec> i am fine with that principle.
<Heisath> I would also suggest splitting peer to peer / community support more. If we have more boards in CSC in the future it might make sense to add subforums to Peer2Peer by board family
<Heisath> So basically have one category: "CSC" with per family boards for community support and one category "Official support" with per family boards for armbian support with maintainers.
<IgorPec> #topic forum changes
<Werner> #topic forum changes
ArmbianHelper changed the topic of #armbian to: forum changes (Meeting topic: Armbian 21.11 (Sambar))
<lanefu> Only thing is nobody understands family but us
<IgorPec> yes. people are attached to board names
<Werner> true
<lanefu> So I'd almost be inclined to structure more like pine forums
<IgorPec> i have noticed a few people lately asking for "where is a forum for X"
<lanefu> Stuff that's a family related issue will be dealt with organically
<Heisath> have links on the download page to support forum category.
<lanefu> It's not like we dont know how to connect devs together
<IgorPec> Heisath: AR-909
<ArmbianHelper> AR-909 [Story] "Website improvements" reported by Igor Pecovnik at 2021-09-13. Status: To Do
<IgorPec> check if not already, otherwise add
<IgorPec> well, people / we are just lazy often
<Heisath> And for us that is ok
<IgorPec> we expect UX to think for us
<Heisath> AR-926
<ArmbianHelper> AR-926 [Sub-task] "Expose maintainers name with URL to forum / github" reported by Igor Pecovnik at 2021-09-21. Status: To Do
<Heisath> Added part about links not only to maintainer but also support forum.
<IgorPec> yes. i'll try to get website changes within next 30 days
<IgorPec> what else we need to do to roll faster?
<lanefu> You own user resources maintainers own machines:. YOUR MOM
<lanefu> Lol
<lanefu> Biggest thing is get doc site updated and I guess clean up maintainer list and setup a PR to change support status and we publish a date of when that change is applied?
<lanefu> Ex: Nov 1
<lanefu> Lol
<Werner> PR is already there
<lanefu> Celebrate our unrelease
<lanefu> Oh
<lanefu> So I dont know how to communicate this
<IgorPec> i think we should remove targert, not comment them
<IgorPec> i have one idea
<Werner> shoot
<lanefu> But literally the jethub people have set the standard on what it means to maintain as a vendor
<IgorPec> to make a cycle and remove one board each cycle
<lanefu> And we should highlight that example
<IgorPec> each time we do that, its an opporutinty to make a noise
<IgorPec> we are removing X unless maintainer doesn't show up until Y
<Heisath> But then we need to do work each cycle.
<lanefu> Meh I'd say pull them all
<IgorPec> then at Y, removing
<IgorPec> i am building an media department along the way ;)
<IgorPec> an idea, like i said
<IgorPec> another one is to make a clear message out - what we will do
<lanefu> "here is the list of all unmaintained boards which will be removed on Nov 1. See doc. If you want to maintain see blah"
<lanefu> And really
<IgorPec> i am sure most of people are not aware we are removing many boards
<lanefu> Yeah soooo idea
<lanefu> Meet you in the middle
<lanefu> We schedule 1 removal date
<lanefu> But we publish the removal list every week
<IgorPec> with a list of orhpaned boards
<lanefu> And hopefily people will see list shrink
<IgorPec> yes, then remove them in one go. also good
<lanefu> Yeag
<lanefu> Yep
<Heisath> wörks
<lanefu> And we can celebrate when someone commits to maintain as another thing to tweet
<lanefu> So negative and positive reinforcement
<IgorPec> yes
<Heisath> Btw. where to add maintainer in board.conf?
<lanefu> (I didn't solve for that figured it would be easy to figure out)
<IgorPec> need to check how that first line is getting text out
<IgorPec> first line goes into description
<Heisath> Completely different topic (sorry), but should we really accept these PRs? https://github.com/armbian/build/pull/3200 I mean I know balbes is working on armbian for some time and doing good job at tvboxes, but man some description of pr would be nice.
<lanefu> Heisath: yeah should probably push on that a bit more
<lanefu> 1 liner at least saying what or why would be good
<IgorPec> perhaps opening a topic on - lets improve our git history ?
<IgorPec> and why this is important
<lanefu> Yeah repo practices and coding standards
<Heisath> show ppl good example prs and not this. IIRC correctly we somewhere had "no direct commit to master", all PR with description
<lanefu> All falls under "code quality" topic IMHO
* lanefu just likes to connect things to industry buzzwords for continuity
<Heisath> We have big PR template, should be enough. If ppl ignore it their choice.
<IgorPec> yes. we could add some robots to kick submitter ass automatically when providing no description
<lanefu> Yep
<lanefu> Lots of great bots
<IgorPec> now - i usually don't have time to start disscussions with submitters
<lanefu> Including ones to autoclose issues 🤠
<Heisath> all these robots working around. The uprising has begun
<IgorPec> autoclose on time?
<Heisath> Just add bot that comments, "please add description" on empty PRs would be enough for the beginning. We do not have that many open ones.
<IgorPec> if we divide build framework on framework and hardware specifics, it will be much better anyway
<IgorPec> we can close 90% of issues right away.
<lanefu> IgorPec: yeah common is autoclose 30 day inactive
<IgorPec> 30 days is a bit too fast for our MO
<Werner> more like 90
<IgorPec> yeah, somewhere there
<lanefu> Yeah I agree was thinking 60 or so would be more forgiving. I like 90.too
<lanefu> 69 days 🤠
<IgorPec> AR-942
<ArmbianHelper> AR-942 [Task] "Adding 90 days autoclose action to the builds system issues" reported by Igor Pecovnik at 2021-10-16. Status: To Do
<IgorPec> ok, what about splitting build system and hardware specific?
<IgorPec> we probably need to discuss a bit
<IgorPec> is this the right way to go? If yes, I open a story
<IgorPec> this also helps to the changes we are on
* Heisath doesnt care.
<lanefu> IgorPec: I think we're 6 months to a year from being ready for that
<IgorPec> ok, planning in a few months then
<lanefu> But we should def make it clear to e everyone it's on our roadmap to keep people from forcing the conversation over and over again
<lanefu> Which really if we were to have a single milestone for each quarter next year what would they be
<lanefu> Err goal
<lanefu> That's the stuff we do need to have published
<lanefu> So people see a vision
<IgorPec> so we need to improve this roadmapping
<lanefu> Am I talking too much?
<IgorPec> no no, keep going
<IgorPec> we do have poor visualisation of planning.
<IgorPec> jira is one thing, it help
<lanefu> Yeah. There's a level above epic I forgot what it's called tho lol
<IgorPec> but yeah, we should improve planning. overall. not just for development.
<IgorPec> story
<lanefu> Yeah. Just singular goal for project as a whole type stuff
<IgorPec> or thgeme
<IgorPec> theme
<lanefu> Sometimes those goals will be technical and sometimes they won't
<lanefu> Yeah
<lanefu> Nice
<Werner> Um kind a lost track. Was there a decision now how to handle bug reports for actually supported boards in forum/github/jira/whatever?
<lanefu> Werner: trusted community member k
<IgorPec> they stays in forum as now. "bug tracker" name goes away from forums if i understand correctly
<lanefu> Or maintainer responsible for braiding gap
<Werner> ok
<IgorPec> We can ask maintainer to keep list of known problems
<IgorPec> that would help and usually this doesn't represent a lot of additional work
<lanefu> s/braiding/bridging
<ArmbianHelper> lanefu meant to say: Or maintainer responsible for bridging gap
<IgorPec> ok
<IgorPec> anything else that needs clarification & discussion?
<lanefu> Next steps for next 2 weeks
<Werner> keep collecting maintainers for boards and drop everything else (at once)
<IgorPec> reinforce media department so we can communicate changes more efficient
<IgorPec> keep onboarding
<IgorPec> there are two in the line
<lanefu> K any order of operations for that or just get em done
<Heisath> Onboarding is important, not that they loose interest
<IgorPec> yes, we have open #armbian-onboarding and i asked people to come here
<IgorPec> then we have to talk with them
<lanefu> Yeah speaking of which are we good with bridging onboard irc to discord
<IgorPec> not a problem for me
<lanefu> #action bridge onboarding with discord
<IgorPec> i have asked yang if he can help with greetings. like this initial welcome
<IgorPec> "hi ... please come to chat with us at #armbian-onboarding
<JMCC> Misc question: @Igor, what happened with Khadas offering support for the project?
<Werner> I think there is a way to create individual forums for each supported board without stretching the forum index over multiple pages
<Werner> igor, lane, check forum and scroll down, you should be able to see what i mean
<IgorPec> jmcc: nothing out of that 10k they donated
<IgorPec> and they send us a bunch of boards
<lanefu> Werner: yep that works for me
<JMCC> I see rpardini wants to support Khadas boards if he can get hardware. That won't be a problem then?
<IgorPec> khadas boards were brought in and we will cover them. i promise them we will keep them in at least one year.
<Werner> In theory we could add support for T-Firefly ROC RK399 PC-PLUS without any effort since it is the board used in the station p1 ^^
<IgorPec> i have some spare and probably we could get more. but we should also connect labs
<IgorPec> i have all those boards online with serial console and some with a hdmi monitor connected
<IgorPec> hdmi monitor will be KVM streamer soon
<IgorPec> and if one covers bananapi, pro is also covered
<lanefu> Werner: nope balbes gotta put his name on each one
<Werner> It is not even in the list (yet)
<lanefu> We can just delete the SBC if it's the same as p1
<Werner> However we could ask. Under the hood its just c&p
<IgorPec> so it can be supported with one image
<IgorPec> well, there we will try to get some deals
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<jock> so, is the meeting closed?
<Werner> I guess most is spoken
<IgorPec> yes, i think we can close it.
<Werner> aight. have a great day
<Werner> #endmeeting
<ArmbianHelper> Minutes (text): armbian/2021/armbian.2021-10-16-14.01.txt
ArmbianHelper changed the topic of #armbian to: armbian - Linux for ARM development boards | www.armbian.com | Github: github.com/armbian | Commits: #armbian-commits | Developer talk: #armbian-devel | Forum/Twitter feed: #armbian-rss | Type 'help' for help | Logs: -> irc.armbian.com
<ArmbianHelper> Log: armbian/2021/armbian.2021-10-16-14.01.log.html
<ArmbianHelper> Minutes: armbian/2021/armbian.2021-10-16-14.01.html
<ArmbianHelper> Meeting ended Sat Oct 16 15:56:18 2021 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
<IgorPec> how to get those meeting logs?
<Werner> I'll put them somewhere
<IgorPec> ok
<IgorPec> ok, lets make some tasks to jira
<jock> thanks for the meeting, going to have some fresh air... see you all!
<Werner> see you
<IgorPec> me too! thanks . see you around
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<lanefu> Cya
<Werner> I added all boards to the "new" bug tracker forums to get an idea on how it will look. I think it is okay
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<Heisath> @Werner you mean all supported boards?
<Werner> No, only those who have a maintainer atm
<Heisath> thats what I meant with supported :)
<Werner> Well..then yes :D
<Heisath> Dann ist ja gut.
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<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Reading through earlier discussions, sorry I missed it, 150% on board with splitting the hardware dependant and the build system.
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