klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<mjg> yo
<mjg> anyone with accesss to gemini (you can do it through bard)
<mjg> from what i hear has to be someone based in the US
<mjg> got a prompt to pass
<geist> heat_: yeah it's my understanding that xenix on 286 was a 16bit OS with multiple segments
<geist> which lines up with things like 2BSD on PDP-11, etc. 16 bit stuff with segments
<zid`> nah that was CG geist
<zid`> Convincing rendering by big unix to fool you
<geist> mjg: sure
<mjg> geist: > write a rust program which compares files in 2 directory trees on linux
<heat_> LMAO
<mjg> what
<mjg> both bard ang chatgpt webdev it
<mjg> let's see what gemini has to offer
<heat_> didn't you say rust was webdev
<heat_> they rust'd it
<mjg> what people normally do with rust, sometimes following official docs, is totes webdev
<geist> what do you mean webdev it?
<heat_> .unwrap()
<mjg> geist: slurping stuff upfront
<mjg> geist: e.g., read_to_string()
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<heat_> FYI that's what windows does
<heat_> on most IO
<geist> oooh lemme see
<geist> yeah: file1.read_to_end(&mut buf1)?;
<geist> and then is buf1 == buf2
<geist> though i dunno if that's gemini
<geist> i have to be careful that i'm not leaking something. hang on
<mjg> maybe you can literally ask it
<mjg> i mean i doubt bard would claim it is gemini
<mjg> "what is your name"
<geist> ah yeah this is gemini pro
<geist> anyway it does a pretty standard answer, and to be nice it gives a bit pile of caveats at the bottom
<mjg> did it emit that read_to_end?
<geist> yes
<mjg> bummer
<mjg> i was genuinely hoping for better
<mjg> thanks for testing
<geist> it pretty much says at the bottom a list of things you can do to optimize it
<geist> lemme ask it to optimize
<mjg> it's going to spawn threads
<heat_> ask it to protobuf-ize it
<heat_> that's how you know if it's a google engineer under the covers doing all the work
<mjg> right
<mjg> you think it's a LLM generating
<mjg> and it's someone paid $1/hour in india
<mjg> copy pasting from SO
<heat_> no, it's google engineers that couldn't pay rent in SF, so they live inside bard
<geist> i just asked it to use fixed sized buffers and it rewrote it
<geist> looks pretty good to me
<moon-child> mechanical llm
<bslsk05> ​IRCCloud pastebin | Raw link: https://irccloud.com/pastebin/raw/Mus9JqBn
<geist> the first response used read_to_string, but then i asked it 'can you avoid using read_to_string and instead use fixed size buffers?'
<mjg> this is still bad, some of the mistakes being pure rustims
<mjg> key though is that read can transiently return only part of the buffer
<mjg> so you have to redo it
<mjg> but this code will autofail you on it
<geist> i think the key with these things is it frequently doesn't get it exactly right on the first ask, because it doesn't know the constraints
<geist> so it usually gives the simplest answer first
<mjg> also any failure to stat will panic the entire thing insteado f skipping the file
<mjg> it should default to /safe/ answers
* geist shrugs
<heat_> have you considered
<mjg> which most notably avoids slurping arbitrarily sized files in one go
<heat_> that this is a LLM and not a code wizard
<mjg> have you considered
<mjg> people copy paste from this
<geist> yeah i mean, the fact that it's kinda halfway there i'm pretty impressed
<heat_> yes, fuck those people
<mjg> geist: no doubt, tech is most impressive
<mjg> just people take its output as impeccable
<heat_> i'm fairly impressed with bard
<geist> i've used it a bit here and there to break out of some hole and just give me a suggestion
<mjg> or at least good enough to plop in
<geist> like 'how do i write an awk script to do something'
<heat_> OMG GEIST IS WEBDEV
<heat_> WEBGEIST!!
<mjg> i have an awk oneliner i dislike a lot
<geist> just to be clear the answers here are the external version
<mjg> and asked people who claim to know awk how to improve it
<geist> i'm using my personal account
<mjg> nobody gave me a good answer
<mjg> maybe i'll ask chatgpt now
<mjg> geist: in this contxt that's great, this is what most people will have access to
<geist> i asked it to write some TMS9900 code the other day wondering if it could pull it off. did okay
<heat_> the real answer to 'how do i write an awk script to do something' is 'you don't'
<mjg> heh
<mjg> heat_: awk is great mofo
<mjg> heat_: LIKE GNUPLOT
<heat_> awk is the gnu plot of text processing
<heat_> gnuplot is the rust of plotting
<heat_> rust is the rust of rust
<heat_> rust.
<mjg> i'm literally bleedin' rust
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<heat_> you realize i wanted to quickly gnuplot a histogram and the easiest solution was to fucking copy someone's random script
<heat_> because there's no way to easily plot a histogram
<heat_> gnuplot has no easy quick way to plot a histogram
<mjg> bro
<mjg> here is a secret
<mjg> gnuplot is standard unix-like dogshit if you have to use it from scratch
<heat_> no one uses gnuplot, everyone claims to use it but they use microsoft excel
<mjg> you need a bunch of templates handy
<mjg> no, plenty of people use gnuplot, but it's mostly cargo culting scripts from other peole
<mjg> and tweaking shit until it starts working
<heat_> cargo culting? is that a rust reference?
<mjg> no
<mjg> 's a standard term mofo
<heat_> joke over head
<mjg> you are a genz, i totally believe you have not heard of it
<mcrod> i've used gnuplot
<mjg> here is the classic for reference https://calteches.library.caltech.edu/51/2/CargoCult.htm
<bslsk05> ​calteches.library.caltech.edu: Cargo Cult Science
<mcrod> thanks i'll take matplotlib and numpy any day
<mjg> what about R
<mcrod> fuck R
<mjg> starts with the same letter as Rust
<mjg> OH
<mcrod> I've had to fix a fucking R script at work
<mcrod> do that with no experience with R and you'll understand patience
<geist> huh i thought R was not half bad?
<mcrod> i personally found it distasteful
<mjg> meh
<mcrod> but then again, I'm tainted
<mcrod> remember, I had to fix a script that was already broken while saying "god wtf is this shit"
<mjg> that will do it to you
<mjg> on something positive (but not totally), one massive quality of life improvement in higher langs like rust is the way "includes" work
<mjg> in c you get tons of shit you not using and you might have even missed explicit #include which happens to work due to mess elsehwere which pulls what you need anyway
<geist> heh been reading about the original cargo cults on islands
<geist> i knew about it, but never really read that much into it
<geist> apparently still going on
<mjg> *still*?
<geist> pretty limited, i think but still have some folks go off in the woods and do rituals
<mjg> i read about it in "the natural history of nonsense"
<mjg> pretty funny
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<geist> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult has a nice overview
<zid`> John Frum is an imposter
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<heat_> lmao
<mjg> what the actual fuck
<mjg> by url i thought it's a satirical club in the uk
<zid`> where's MY pig killing club :(
<bslsk05> ​'I know a genuine Magnetbox, Panaphonic, & Sorny when I see one.' by OWEN CA$H (00:00:37)
<kof123> crescent moon was cat horus with his little knife...pig was darkness (see also zelda 3) you're welcome
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<sham1> hi
<zid`> sham1
<zid`> do some LCM math for me
<sham1> Least common multiple. AoC?
<zid`> yea
<sham1> I just used python's math.lcm
<zid`> okay what do I put into it
<zid`> I quickly browsed reddit, and people were saying they only had Z in their loops.. either I have a bug or that isn't true for everybody :P
<sham1> You look for each sub paths and their lengths, and get the lengths' lcm
<zid`> each what
<sham1> Are you doing part 2 yet?
<zid`> yes
<zid`> hence "Z in their loops"
<zid`> not "ZZZ in their path"
<sham1> Yes
<zid`> My output is weird and I need to investigate why
<sham1> So, you can look for each of the beginning positions how long each of them take to go into a node ending in Z
<zid`> I get three Z in a row, every 11k ish cycles
<sham1> And then LCM those lengths
<zid`> which isn't what I saw other people suggesting their input was like
<zid`> And the LCM shouldn't work unless the distance from A to the loop is the same as Z to Z, right?
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<zid`> Okay back to AoC, read a book for a bit instead :P
<zid`> 8085617200813047808 is too high, apparently
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<Ermine> Tried to automate windows installation. It took me longer than to just install windows
<zid`> sounds right
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<zid`> welp, The thing I thought was the answer isn't, now I'm stuck
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<thunor> hi
<thunor> the nand2tetris book isn't on your list
<thunor> is this considered a low quality book?
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<thunor> or is it too unrelated to os specifically?
<thunor> i'll assume that
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<thunor> i love feeling tired
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Cindy is now known as bnchs
<heat> zid`, better than oracle db
<zid`> I just like the template
<heat> i like it to
<heat> too
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<Ermine> better than ms access
<mjg> nothing beats a db consisting of several contradictory excel files
<heat> C files with contradictory comments moment
<heat> today in me:
<heat> /* TODO: Add a way for inodes to tell they don't support seeking */
<heat> if (filp->f_ino->i_type == VFS_TYPE_FIFO || filp->f_ino->i_flags & INODE_FLAG_NO_SEEK)
<heat> i literally did it and didn't remove the TODO literally above this line
<mjg> very senior enterprise of you
<heat> and before you complain
<heat> yes, INODE_FLAG_NO_SEEK is a LULNAME
<heat> i'm slowly converting these flags to I_<FLAGNAME>
<heat> like a true unix
<heat> when i'm finished with that i'll randomly convert half of my mm to camel case
<joe9> on amd64, what is the assembly instruction to call 64 bit absolute addresses instead of an offset?
<heat> doesn't exist
<zid`> call rax
<heat> you need movabs <64bit immediate>, %reg; call *(%reg)
<heat> or the intel equivalent
<zid`> mov rax
<heat> actually, fun story, they're adding a call 64-bit abs instruction
<zid`> there's also
<zid`> push; ret
<heat> i saw that a few days ago
<joe9> zid`: push; ret is very expensive, isn't it? 2*2 cycles
<zid`> wat
<zid`> that isn't how modern cpus work at all
<zid`> also it'd push push ret I'm silly
<heat> a 64-bit call will always be expensive
<zid`> read: free
<heat> it's not free
<zid`> or it will miss and cost a billion
<zid`> there's no way to know
<zid`> without all the surrounding code
<heat> right
<heat> anyway don't do this unless you really need to
<heat> call imm32 is OPTIMAL as an unknown member of the community would put it
<zid`> if your code does anything *useful* it is more than likely just free
<zid`> cus you're stalled doing the useful thing in the FUTURE while this is executing
<zid`> *spooky noises*
<joe9> heat, in call imm32, the imm32 is an offset, correct?
<zid`> relative displacement from the end of the call
<joe9> ok, thanks.
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<heat> what zid` said
<heat> Reviewed-By: heat
<heat> ok heat@
<joe9> If I am using linear address space, how would the relative displacement be calculated when the code is spread out over more than 4GiB?
<zid`> It isn't
<Ermine> imm32 ? Google gives out some windows stuff
<zid`> simple
<zid`> if it is, you have to use mov rax, blah; call rax
<zid`> but the 'correct' solution is.. don't do that
<joe9> ok, thanks.
<bslsk05> ​www.google.com: Error 403 (Forbidden)!!1
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<kof123> > yes, INODE_FLAG_NO_SEEK is a LULNAME > I'm slowly converting these flags to I_<FLAGNAME> # similar "namespacing" was part of an lkml rust discussion linked the other day
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<zid`> I think I should get a kitten.
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<geist> you should
<zid`> First I need to find a big fat female cat to squeeze
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