<Matt|home>
yeah yeah i've got the C standard open right now
<heat>
not the c standard
<heat>
if you're saying
<heat>
<Matt|home> i've assigned every variable the extern keyword and i have a feeling i shouldn't be doing that
<heat>
then you shouldn't even be thinking about the C standard
<Matt|home>
i got an answer to my question by the way. apparently although the C standard explicitly states that arrays are not variable length after compile time, some compilers including gcc-12 do implement that feature. that's why this works
<mcrod>
i don't even know what you're saying
<heat>
that's wrong
<mcrod>
if you mean something like
<Matt|home>
yeah i got that a lot today..
<heat>
VLAs are part of the C99 standard
<heat>
and those are variable length tyvm
<mcrod>
`static const int x = 5; int a[x];`, with optimizations enabled gcc will const prop `x` to make `a` the array we all know and love
<Matt|home>
what's the current C standard, C 20 something?
<heat>
VLAs are still part of the C standard
<Matt|home>
C23
<mcrod>
(even though this is evil)
<mcrod>
i thought they were optional now
<heat>
>The C23 standard makes VLA types mandatory again
<heat>
per wikipedia
<heat>
can't be arsed to check
<Matt|home>
guess im wrong again
<Matt|home>
damn..
<heat>
DARN
<heat>
mcrod
<heat>
while (len-->0)
<heat>
outc(*c++), ret++;
<heat>
i fucking wrote this lmao
<mcrod>
interesting
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<heat>
gog, what did you need device_path for
<heat>
just to know if i'll see you in the hague
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<gog>
i was going to write a rudimentary filesystem
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<Reinhilde>
pluh
<gog>
i'm way too stupid for that
<gog>
mrrp
<heat>
efi filesystems don't need device_path
<gog>
oh
<gog>
well, it's what i was doing and i must've got down some rabbit hole while reading the spec
<heat>
gog
<heat>
>This type is used by systems implementing the UEFI PI Specification to describe a firmware file. The exact format and usage are defined in that specification.
<heat>
i have no wordz
<gog>
what
<heat>
huh uefi.org got a redesign
<gog>
no device path is just what it says on the tin
<gog>
it's a path to a device
<heat>
thanks boss
<gog>
yw
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<heat>
>Registers a handler that is called each timer the timer interrupt fires.
<heat>
proof reading is herd
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<zid>
guys, any stupid macro stuff you can think of to generate pascal strings at compile time?
<zid>
other than using an assembler, where it's actually easy
<zid>
okay came up with something
<kof123>
hmm...i think i sizeof() some constant strings, but i don't store it contiguous, and i think i just have defines to do that... from other defines (which has the define name -> string value)...so neither "exist" anywhere IIRC unless you use the particular define
<kof123>
that of course, "length" is just "length in bytes" not "chars"
<blockhead>
zid: i like that error message in that source code ;)
<node1>
Hi
<node1>
Is nested paging a hardware component used for virtualization technology in modern CPUs or is it utilized by the hypervisor as pice of code or data structure type?
<zid>
It means I forgot to save the input text afterall
<gog>
node1: it's a feature generically called SLAT, provided by RVI on AMD and EPT on Intel
<node1>
So it's used in modern cpu ?
<gog>
it makes page table lookups a little faster for guest systems
<gog>
it's a feature that may or may not be present
<node1>
Generally MMU are like SoC on processors so these are same like on processor?
<gog>
it has to be tested for against the CPU's feature set
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<heat>
what if i
<heat>
for the lulz
<heat>
did aoc in rust
<heat>
just for the joke haha lol lmao
<zid>
just cross your fingers while you submit
<zid>
then it doesn't count
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<johnanne>
Hello I have a question about memory management
<zid>
heat: Did you spoil yourself and look at mine already?
<gog>
hi
<heat>
zid, no
<heat>
gog, no
<johnanne>
I already have non paged kheap (Obviously!! It is hard to do anything without!) and now I'm implementing the paged memory, which will be useful for the paged kheap. What are the appropriate things to put in paged kheap. I know I need to avoid anything that is accessed with certain locks held, anything used in the actual paging codepath, and so on.
<johnanne>
Is the right thing to do to put any allocation in paged kheap unless you know it must not be.
<heat>
paged kernel memory is wrong
<heat>
don't do it
<zid>
I don't even understand what it means
<zid>
heat, explain
<heat>
the nt kernel is reportedly a lot more complex than it needs to be because its heaps are paged by default
<zid>
all my memory is paged
<heat>
zid, swapping kernel memory
<zid>
oh, blergh
<zid>
yea, we had someone who wanted that before
<johnanne>
zid: Pageable memory is a term used in operating systems to refer to memory which can be paged in or out.
<zid>
I came to the conclusion it only makes sense in extreme memory starved systems that will run thousands of tasks, but switch infrequently between them
<zid>
which is.. not a scenario anyone actually has
<gog>
i do
<gog>
heat when are you coming to visit
<gog>
my new apartment is v nice
<heat>
one day
<zid>
don't invite heat, portugooses don't have any bowel control
<heat>
(tm)
<heat>
oh yeah i'd shit in your toilet immediately
<gorgonical>
paged kernel memory
<heat>
ruin that shit straight away
<gorgonical>
what in tarnation
<gog>
as long as it's in the toilet
<heat>
if you piss me off i'll do it on your carpet
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<gorgonical>
zid: paging kernel memory is also not uncommon in trusted OSes unfortunately
<gorgonical>
op-tee implements an aggressively paged kernel core
<zid>
Imaging trusting the hw
<gorgonical>
i have to because my thesis depends on it
<johnanne>
According to Singhal (author "Advanced Concepts in Operating System"): "It is possible for a microkernel to skip the traditional step of providing a paged kernel-heap, because such kernel will be so minimal that the paged user-heap covers the data which should be paged." But I don't write a microkernel.
<gog>
paging out kernel data structures is a mess
<gog>
it's not a great idea
<gorgonical>
johnanne: I think an underlying point here is that if you have a lot of memory to spare or if your kernel doesn't take up a lot of space, don't page
<gorgonical>
these days systems have copious memory
<zid>
Just page the entire kernel image out, easier:P
<Ermine>
Barcode scanners are super simple if you don't count usb part
<zid>
Ermine: they're just fancy microphones
<johnanne>
Ah, so many things in operating systems are, but I want to write a real operating system, even a small one, not a toy soldier kernel.
<heat>
johnanne, who's singhal and why do we need to care?
<zid>
?
<gorgonical>
linux doesn't swap kernel structures does it?
<heat>
no.
<zid>
linux is a 'toy soldier kernel'? (Whatever the fuck that is)
<johnanne>
heat: He is the author of the book "Advanced Concepts in Operating System".
<heat>
great! who's singhal?
<zid>
advanced = for advanced applications, not advanced = amazing
<zid>
Think of it like, advanced liver cancer
<johnanne>
Mukesh Singhal
<zid>
very complicated
<heat>
it's me, heat, author of "Sexy Operating Systems"
<heat>
respect my opinion
<Ermine>
zid: except what barcodes encode is human readable
<zid>
heat, onyx is stage 4
<johnanne>
He is now a reader at University of California, says LinkedIn.
<zid>
Ermine: everything is human readable if you're bored enough
<Ermine>
And you aren't bored enough?
<gorgonical>
which UC is pretty important here though
<Ermine>
if you aren't*
<gorgonical>
even if he's just a lecturer
<zid>
Not to read a cd-rom by putting it under a microscope and typing it out, typically
<Ermine>
heat: sexy onyx?
<gorgonical>
anyway johanne it's important to remember that here in the irc there is a pretty strong orthodoxy about certain concepts
<zid>
there's a guy who added a speaker to his barcode reader, then made some barcodes with the right layout to make it play music :P
<johnanne>
gorgonical: Merced. I didn't heard of it before, I know College of Berkeley from their Unix fame.
<gorgonical>
ultimately you should just do whatever the fuck you want to. unless this is for a job, then do what your boss says to do
<zid>
Nobody's telling him not to do it if he has a reason to do it
<gorgonical>
johnanne: i have been mistyping your name because I can't read, apologies
<heat>
well yes, of course you do whatever the fuck you want to
<heat>
but if you ask for advice i'm giving you *my* advice
<zid>
we're telling him calling linux a "toy soldier kernel" because it doesn't have some incredibly esoteric technique that won't be useful in the vast majority of cases, is narrow minded
<zid>
(and makes the vast majority of cases slower)
<gorgonical>
indeed but I remember when I first joined the irc not really being able to distinguish between "I wouldn't do it this way" and "don't be a dumb dumb"
* Ermine
files an issue to include nsfw wallpapers when display(1) is here
<zid>
gorgonical: don't be a dumb dumb
<heat>
multiple NT people have come out and said that making the NT kernel paged memory made it significantly more complex
<heat>
which is very understandable
<zid>
heat: Why not page the entire imageset btw?
<johnanne>
Yes, thank you, I am doing already what has been interested to me. Now when I was a student there was many AIX computers at the institute, and Singhal profiles that kernel, so I am borrowing many concept from it.
<gorgonical>
of course. but "have a reason to do it" can range from intellectual value to real constraints, liek op-tee
<zid>
like,per-task heaps you either save 100% or 0%, should limit the complexity at least a little?
<Ermine>
who raised the topic of paging the kernel again?
<gorgonical>
johnanne did
<gorgonical>
I think
<zid>
ignore the byte allocator, just save all the backing slabs 2MB at a time or whatever
<johnanne>
heat: Yes, there is in AIX a feature whereby, not only kheap, but also, there is a separate paged kernel code, data, and bss segments. But I don't copy that because these segments do not grow, so there is only a small portion of memory which is resident.
<gorgonical>
I also have learned that sometimes there's a lot of learning to be had by touching the stove yourself
<heat>
johnanne, ignore AIX
<zid>
gorgonical: he should just go write it then?
<gorgonical>
I learn all the things by doing them the wrong way first
<johnanne>
I think it is also hardly to reason about which call traces are going to enter the paged text segment, and easier more to reason about what kheap data structures you will touch.
<zid>
he's here arguing about why we're wrong instead
<heat>
seriously, AIX?
<Ermine>
What is AIX?
<zid>
is a series of proprietary Unix operating systems developed and sold by IBM for several of its computer platforms.
<Ermine>
Is AIX in one room here with us?
<zid>
system/370 spec stuff
<gorgonical>
Ermine: no, its been paged out
<zid>
Ermine: it's everywhere and nowhere, you can only tell it's present if it says BE NOT AFRAID
<heat>
it's like modelling your OS on Tru64
<gorgonical>
johnanne: if you think this is bad, you should see the discord
<johnanne>
I don't argue anyone to be wrong, do not think I come here with a proudy head. AIX and 4.4 BSD were the two kernels I selected for a comparative exercise while I was a student, so I am familiar with them above other kernels.
<heat>
there are so many OPEN SOURCE WELL DOCUMENTED examples out there
<heat>
picking AIX is just weird. it's probably on life support as well
<zid>
johnanne: then why are you talking about aix and other stuff? Just ask your code question, not for 'advice'
<Ermine>
gorgonical: lol
<zid>
"how do I get the linker to <do this thing> as when I try to <implement paging> I get behavior <y> and I wanted behavior <z>"
<zid>
for example
<johnanne>
zid: I gave a context, I don't copy everything from AIX, for example, I think that the paging the kernel executable image is too severe.
<zid>
I 100% do not care
<johnanne>
gorgonical: What is the story of the discord.
<zid>
about what aix does, or what you're doing
<zid>
just ask a question someone can answer
<gorgonical>
johnanne: it's a discord, that's what. emotes and rust enthusiasts abound
<heat>
😈
<gorgonical>
the sweet mercy of using emacs's irc client is that i can't see whatever you just wrote, heat
<mjg>
heat posted a youtube short
<heat>
tiktok.com/@osdev
<johnanne>
zid: I restate it for your benefit. Apart from structures which is involved in paging (unless a 2nd-order page fault is allowed in that context) and structures accessed under certain locks (All spinlock, mutexes involved in paging), what is to be avoided from the paged kheap.
<bslsk05>
tiktok.com: Os D (@osdev) | TikTok
<zid>
that's asking for advice, again
<zid>
"Whatever would make your code not work"
<zid>
is the only answer we can give
<gorgonical>
this
<mjg>
is this an exam or something?
<heat>
mjg, no, he's modelling his OS after AIX
<heat>
which pages kernel data
<mjg>
i'm out
<gorgonical>
mjg: if you wail we deregister your nick
<gorgonical>
fail*
<zid>
please don't, my ignore list is 50% his stupid nick changes already
<johnanne>
mjg: No exam. I finished the student days 9 years ago. Now I'm progressing my OS as hobby.
<mjg>
zid: it was a phase and i'm done with it X:
<gorgonical>
wasn't this going on like wednesday
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<johnanne>
heat: What are the concepts of Tru64? I don't know this OS.
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<johnanne>
I did heard of it but I don't know why it is special.
<heat>
it's an outdated UNIX
<heat>
just like AIX
<zid>
Actually what you'retalking about is unix/mach
<johnanne>
AIX is not outdated, it had a new release only a year ago.
<gorgonical>
by that metric reactOS isn't outdated
<johnanne>
They use it on big iron. And ReactOS because it is a copy of another OS, it's doomed to always be the tortoise that can't catch up the hare. Unless tortoise talks a different path.
<zid>
when was the last time freedos got an update? :p
<johnanne>
No, no, you are not understanding me zid. FreeDOS is also an imitation of another OS and it is tied to an obsolete mode of execution that chance has kept alive. But now Intel, they are introducing x86-S which deletes that mode of execution. And there is no DOS without real mode.
<zid>
so close
<heat>
solaris isn't outdated?
<zid>
*so* close
<heat>
it had a release like a few months ago
<gorgonical>
guys plan9 just released!
<gorgonical>
9front I mean
<zid>
johnanne: now apply that *same* logic, to aix.
<gorgonical>
whatever
<zid>
side note: I'd love to see someone port some modern hw support back to some old unix flavour, then try to run various benchmarks
<Ermine>
🦀🦀🦀
<johnanne>
I had a friend as a student who worked for Oracle branch here on Solaris desktop. But I think he was laid off some time ago. He is working somewhere else now anyway.
<heat>
in 11 years AIX had 3 releases, mostly stale releases
<heat>
<zid> side note: I'd love to see someone port some modern hw support back to some old unix flavour, then try to run various benchmarks
<heat>
mjg!!
<Ermine>
usb stack in sysv when
<gorgonical>
fuck usb, infiniband when
<Ermine>
mjg n!
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<Ermine>
s/n/!/
<zid>
"Sick, my cp fileonssd /dev/null performance is 30MB/s!"
<johnanne>
zid: I see AIX is running on modern POWER Silicon and it is clearly a modern kernel. If it was not modern, efficient, well written, it would not be used popularly today for new deployments.
<zid>
That list is like, exclusively people backporting *slightly* more modern hw support, so that they can keep the life-support running
<Ermine>
heat: pic is broken
<zid>
because nobody *makes* the hardware that you would need, anymore
<zid>
and hasn't for 25 years
<johnanne>
If that was true, then why AIX has got new features like clustering and RBAC. Clustering is not a little bit of porcelain you put together as a hobby.
<heat>
Ermine, wht? works fine here?
<gorgonical>
Ermine: works for me too
<nortti>
is imgur geoblocking russia?
<zid>
johnanne: because people don't rewrite business software unless paid a *lot* of money to do so
<heat>
johnanne, because someone really needed it, so they got to it
<gog>
i've come to do some business with a big iron on my hip
<gog>
(big iron on my hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip)
<gorgonical>
lmao
<johnanne>
nortti: I don't see what is the problem, India is a powerhouse of technology and Bangalore is the Indian Silicon Valley.
<gorgonical>
incredible gog
<mjg>
> Respectfully disagree that AIX's days are numbered. Moving anything to India is a cost play and not necessarily a statement on commitment. AIX is very mature with new features being evolutionary .... that is even too strong of a word as changes / new features are slowly added. This is one reason why there is binary compatibility as well as being incredibly reliable.
<mjg>
lol
<gorgonical>
Some nerdy guy with a THINK notebook in his frocket and big glasses
<zid>
is a frocket a frock with pockets
<gorgonical>
your front pocket on a shirt
<zid>
oh
<zid>
I thought I'd found gog a christmas present
<gog>
i do need a dress with pockets
<gog>
so i can do the meme
<zid>
see
<heat>
johnanne, obvious way to cut costs by paying programmers like a tenth of what they'd pay in the US
<Ermine>
heat: "the image cannot be displayed because it contains errors"
<heat>
that's on you boss
<Ermine>
or is it firefox on android moment...
<gorgonical>
russian imgur cdn busted
<Ermine>
gorgonical: i had vpn on
<Ermine>
well it works without vpn
<heat>
actually, probably worse than a tenth considering that most people working on this kind of stuff are old geezers
<johnanne>
heat: Yes, I sometimes wonder, why do the American tech workers ever complain. Of course I know that it is more stressful there where they have disciplined working culture.
<heat>
in the US at least
<heat>
you can't unionize, you pay a shitload of taxes and most of your income goes to your rent and basic living conditions
<mjg>
if ibm wanted to keep *develping* aix they wold not whack the team
<johnanne>
I have seen how even the newly graduated there get paid an equivalent to 80 lakh rupees. "Promised land" indeed!!
<mjg>
ibm was using RHEL internally for *yars*
<mjg>
years even
<gorgonical>
anyone perpetuating the promised land myth about america needs to download propaganda that's newer than roosevelt's presidency
<heat>
100K is barely above the poverty line in SF IIRC
<gog>
yarrr
* mjg
burps
<gorgonical>
as long as you like french fries in all dishes, clouds, and and air pollution, pittsburgh is pretty nice though
* gog
pets mjg
* mjg
puurrrrs
<Matt|home>
in main() is there a difference/reason you'd use exit(1) instead of return 1 to close the program? im not sure if they behave identically or not, looking it up now. or is this purely a style choice
<mjg>
it is "stylistic"
<mjg>
return from main ends up in an equivalent of a call to exit
<gog>
except in c++
<mjg>
what happens in c++?
<gorgonical>
gog: we don't talk about that here
<Matt|home>
lol
<johnanne>
I could not move to it, because I have commitments here. But even supposing majority of your salary go to your bills, the net left over is almost unimaginable for me.
<gog>
objects in the scope won't have their destructors run
<mjg>
rly?
<gog>
if you exit()
<gog>
yeh
<gorgonical>
if you exit() or just return?
<gog>
if you return they will
<gorgonical>
makes sense to me. you aren't exiting the scope
* mjg
scratches gog's head
<gorgonical>
well, you are, but not the right way lol
* gog
prrr
<heat>
i wanna
<heat>
i wanna work for oracle
<heat>
maintain solaris kernal
<gog>
abort() is even more aggressively exiting
<Matt|home>
okay so return 1 _does_ call exit, unless im very much mistaken
<gog>
it does eventually
<gorgonical>
I wonder if you can sigkill yourself
<heat>
yes, please return 1
<johnanne>
Now I wonder, I can see that AIX is not the popular inspiration here. Then what kernels do people here follow for inspiration?
<heat>
gorgonical, yes
<johnanne>
heat must be a Solaris liker.
<heat>
johnanne, linux, windows (rarely)
<gog>
hahahahaha
<zid>
heat loves solaris
<gog>
i'm a solaris liker and a girl kisser
<zid>
gog loves kissing girls
<zid>
beat me
<heat>
mjg also loves solaris
<johnanne>
heat: I would learn from Windows, but it seems undocumented. Of course AIX is also a propitiary system, but there are many reading materials about it and it is profiled in Singhel's book and others.
<mjg>
windows is very much documented
<zid>
heat: I'm going to learn COBOL, nice modern language, the compiler got an update last week.
<zid>
gunna come first in advent of code in it
* Ermine
thinks of fortran
<johnanne>
You still are not understanding me zid, AIX is already basically modern from its creation onwards, and nowadays I say there is no major feature which all undeniably modern OS has, but AIX has not.
<heat>
oh yeah?
<Ermine>
it's openVMS which is modern onwards
<heat>
io_uring?
<zid>
You are still not understanding me johnanne, COBOL is already basically modern from its creation onwards, and nowadays I say there is no major feature which all undenaibly modern languages has (sic), but COBOL has not.
<heat>
i'll eat my hat if AIX has io_uring
<heat>
or eBPF
<johnanne>
Does all modern OS have io_uring? And eBPF?
<zid>
I'll eat my hat if it has decent irq routing
<heat>
windows has had AIO for a long time, eBPF is new in windows
<heat>
linux has io_uring and eBPF
<mjg>
johnanne do you like vms?
<Ermine>
heat: I still wonder what are use cases where io_uring would perform better than poll + nonblock sockets
<johnanne>
AIX has two AIO subsystem, one is POSIX AIO, there is another also.
<heat>
yeah and are they any good?
<heat>
spoiler: no
<zid>
can you page out the one you aren't using? :P
<johnanne>
mjg: I only remember little about it from my studies.
<heat>
POSIX AIO is historically classified as "shite"
<Ermine>
but people build stuff which is fast AF with io_uring
<mjg>
heat: s/aio//
<johnanne>
zid: I think so, I don't know, but AIX has pageable versions of kernel text, data, and bss segment, so perhaps the code is in the pageable text segment.
<heat>
mjg, correct
<johnanne>
Some of it can't be because the virtual memory subsystem also consumes the kernel internal AIO.
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<gorgonical>
this poll implementation I'm working on is so bad
<bslsk05>
learn.microsoft.com: Use the C Run-time - Visual C++ | Microsoft Learn
<heat>
look at the code snippet
<heat>
this is what davec gets you
<Ermine>
typical ms style
<Ermine>
Though other win32 snippets don't have return() iirc
<heat>
they do not
<gog>
is that the same person that's been coming back to talk about old operating systems
<gog>
like openvms
<gog>
they used the word "proudy"
<gog>
and istg another one of these one-off usernames has before
<Ermine>
now I feel like programming win32
<Ermine>
I have one unfinished thingie there
<kof123>
> gorgonical: anyone perpetuating the promised land myth https://0x0.st/s/y1kfwJFdlPeFniZ14-OmUQ/HxoE.jpg see also cdparanoia logo, and compare the shape of the bennu bird (tip-top, as in capstone) head :D memphis i believe is ruins nowadays, that is where he was found :D
<kof123>
all that is just to say...when did memphis become ruins? at least as old as that lol
<Ermine>
Have they gone?
<gog>
yeh
<heat>
brb i have to test something in microsoft windows
<heat>
which is a far superior and modern operating system to any other
<kof123>
so the myth is basically permanent unless they come up with a new great seal and start over lol
<heat>
as dave cutler said "fuck all of you UNIX ponies"
<gog>
i'm in another channel where this one person comes in with different usernamse all the time and it's frustrating because i know exactly who they are and i have a hard time taking them seriously
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<HPUX>
Good morning, what is the favourite UNIX of this server..?
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<netbsduser>
osf/1
<acidx>
fuzix
<HPUX>
I didn't heard of either of these two UNIX.
<Ermine>
zorin os
<acidx>
or plurix
<Ermine>
Onyx, actually
<Ermine>
Everything else is for sissies
<HPUX>
How can you name these Unix which no one knows about.
<zid>
Ermine: you mean for zizzies<<
<nortti>
at&t unix
<GeDaMo>
Xenix
<Ermine>
Onyx is actually a modern UNIX system designed as modern onwards
<HPUX>
nortti: V1, V2, V3, V4, V5, V6, V7, V8, V9, V10, Plan 9 From Outer Space, UNIX32V, System III, or System V?
<Ermine>
There's nothing Onyx doesn't have and other modern systems have
<nortti>
HPUX: v7, specifically the 32-bit x86 port
<HPUX>
What is Onyx.
<Ermine>
Is V10 Unix a thing?
<zid>
If sysv unix is so good, why is windows 93 versions higher?
<Ermine>
zid: for ziddies
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<mjg>
fakitiX
<geist>
huh that was weird
<geist>
i wonder if that's the openvms is great person
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<mjg>
that is my guess
<geist>
oh i see, the HPUX person was johanne
<mjg>
which i suspect is also the vms person
<geist>
yah
<zid>
obviously
<kof123>
you guys assume it is not just someone yanking your chain? i mean who knows but :D
<gorgonical>
kof123: I thought you were referring to memphis, tn for a second
<gorgonical>
which is also in ruins
<kof123>
well phoenix arizona but yeah :D
<kof123>
he gets around lol
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<heat>
windows is noticeably slower at building software
<heat>
i wonder if its full of CRAPPER LUL CODE
<zid>
CreateProcessExPls is just lsooowwowo
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<geist>
PESSIMAL
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<Ermine>
superior, huh?
<Ermine>
They do paging in some weird way iirc
<Ermine>
As some other preacher told
<heat>
we all need to get together and uncrapper the crappers
<netbsduser>
who does paging in a weird way
<heat>
windows krenal
<Ermine>
binbows
<netbsduser>
yeah
<heat>
MACROCRAP WINSHIT
<netbsduser>
it implements segmented-fifo a la vms
<netbsduser>
well
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<netbsduser>
i think now it also tries to select less-recently-accessed pages for the first level of replacement
<Ermine>
heat: don't you know that michaelsoft binbows meme?
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<heat>
i'm back on arcrap linux
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<heat>
linux? more like slowux
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<Ermine>
if linux is slowux, what is openbsd then
<blockhead>
a space heater
<Ermine>
lol
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<Ermine>
heat: btw some guy made alpine linux tg channel and he never calls windows by normal name. Only windoze, winshit, etc...
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<nikolar>
tg channel?
<nikolar>
Telegram?
<heat>
Ermine, he's owning them every time he does that
<heat>
m$
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<netbsduser>
m!kr0$0ft winb0ws, made at m!kr0$0ft headkwarters in r€dm0nd in the un-tied $$$nakes of amerika
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<zid>
you're telling me an egg fried this rice?
<vdamewood>
Matt|home: I'd have moved the porescription out of the frame before shooting.
<vdamewood>
prescription
<Matt|home>
it's ok my info is public anyway
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<Matt|home>
damn. 6/10 again.
<Matt|home>
eh i'll be generous, 6.5
<Ermine>
Anyway
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<Ermine>
Win 11 is crapper UI-wise
<heat>
i like the crapper UI
<heat>
the inconsistency annoys me, but the win 11 crapper UI style, i like
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<Ermine>
I prefer win10
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<gog>
nice fried race
<gog>
fried rice
<vdamewood>
gog: That was almost too dark.
<gog>
yh
* vdamewood
gives gog a fried fish.
* gog
chomp
<gog>
i had fish for dinner
<gog>
baked salmon
<vdamewood>
Yum.
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<node1>
So what you have finished in your dinner
<node1>
?
<gog>
yes
<node1>
Just go is to understand what you eat To live
<gog>
then i had ice cream
<node1>
s/go/ Curious
<node1>
I guess salmon is a fish Specially found in the North American region??
<gog>
uh
<gog>
salmon is fish yeah
<gog>
this is atlantic salmon, farmed inland
<node1>
I mean this is the variant of a fish which you can't find in the rest of the world
<node1>
yeah I know because when you travel across the world you found there are lot of varieties of fish
<vdamewood>
node1: Salmon is also found in Asia and Europe
<node1>
I have no idea what salmon is being called in Asian country might be they have some different name
<Matt|home>
salmon is indeed a variety of fish. an extremely common variety which is suitable for human consumption and unfortunately has been attempted to be farmed inland with rather unfortunate results. salmon tend to require large areas of water to survive since they're fairly large fish
<vdamewood>
node1: Japanese for salmon is sake.
<gog>
in icelandic it's lax
<node1>
Yes You may be correct here because this is what the pattern I have found that a particularly scientific object has been named differently in a different societies and culture
<vdamewood>
鮭
<Matt|home>
fun fact: salmon are anadromous fish. they can survive in both fresh and salt water.
<node1>
And between How do you cook this salmon fish Because I know there are many ways to cook uh fish
<Matt|home>
pan fry is sufficient after descaling.
<node1>
And what oil you use do you use some oil or alcohol in it
<vdamewood>
There are lots of ways to cook salmon.
<vdamewood>
I never cook with alcohol.
<Matt|home>
please keep an eye on the appropriate temperature to ensure safe eating (and please wear gloves when handling raw fish as bacteria tend to live on them in greater prevalence than other meats).
<gog>
usually we bake it, sometimes we pan sear it
<gog>
we've eaten it raw
<node1>
What I know that some people tried it on urban or some sort of grilled it by putting some alcohol on it or lemon
<vdamewood>
I've had salmon sushi
<vdamewood>
i usually eat it baked with lemon, or pan seered.
<node1>
Okay so I'll have some different way of Making fish we use some sort of seed and central oil a little bit onions garlic red chili and turmeric and we mix it to make it some sort of gravy
<vdamewood>
sounds good.
<node1>
by the way you enjoy cooking such dishes in jungles or when you're doing some campaign outside
<node1>
I did lot of campaign in Himalayan regions , where sometimes I have to survive with this fishes which you found in running water
<vdamewood>
campaign?
<gog>
i think they mean camping
<gog>
there are no jungles here
<node1>
Camping*
<gog>
there are almost no trees
<vdamewood>
I'm in a temperate rainforest. Jungles are tropical.
<node1>
Or hiking
<vdamewood>
Hiking makes sense.
<node1>
Oh which place is this?
<gog>
iceland
<vdamewood>
Portland, Oregon (Western US)
<vdamewood>
node1: Where are you?
<node1>
I iceland oh my goodness, I have heard that there is a three month a day and three month of a night in Iceland?
<gog>
it's not quite that dramatic
<vdamewood>
I don't think Iceland is quite that far north.
<gog>
it's more like 3 weeks of nearly constant daylight and 6 weeks of very short days
<node1>
vdamewood me at Pakyong
<node1>
Okay time to say goodbye It's a midnight here
<vdamewood>
om3ga: Sikhim?
<vdamewood>
node1 : ^
<node1>
Yes
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<heat>
gog, wait isn't it iceland WHERE THERE'S LITERALLY NO LAND, JUST ICE??
<gog>
yes
<heat>
WOAH
<vdamewood>
Yeah, iceland is a misnomer, since there's no land.
<vdamewood>
It should be called iceplace or something.
<heat>
should be called ice
<vdamewood>
That would be like calling a country just 'land' though.
<heat>
did you know: they named ice after iceland?
<vdamewood>
Where are you from? Land.
<heat>
subscribe for more fun facts
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<vdamewood>
Before the discovery of Iceland, Ice was just called glass.
<heat>
no, ice was water
<vdamewood>
Did you know there are more atoms of hydrogen in a molicuel of water, than there are stars in the whole solar system?
<heat>
WHAT
<gog>
wgat
<vdamewood>
It's trtue. Mind-blowing isn't it?
<moon-child>
tahw
<heat>
gyatt
<vdamewood>
thaw
<zid>
The average person has slightly less than one testicle.
<moon-child>
oh shit I'm average
<vdamewood>
Most people have an above-average number of feet.
<zid>
I'm actually struggling on the math for that
<moon-child>
I'm gonna be in iceland tomorrow
<heat>
i have an above average number of testicles 🤓
<moon-child>
for a layover
<zid>
yea I suppose it's identical
<zid>
math wise
<gog>
i'm below average
<heat>
woah gog
<heat>
that's nuts
<gog>
moon-child: :o
<vdamewood>
gog: You only have one foot?
<heat>
*ba dum tss*
<gog>
have fun at keflavik
<moon-child>
i mean i probably won't but thanks
<gog>
vdamewood: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
* moon-child
hates travelling
* vdamewood
hates hatred
<heat>
'ate travellin, 'ate 'ating, luv AIX
<heat>
simple as.
<zid>
It's always sunny in macedonia
<vdamewood>
I have cards that I need to sleeve, but I can't compell myself to do it.
<zid>
pokermans?
<gog>
my wife is playing pokemans rn
<vdamewood>
zid: Legend of the Five Rings
<zid>
That's a weird pokemon subtitle
<zid>
usually it's <colour> <substance> or something
<gog>
she's wearing a pikachu shirt too
<zid>
gog: does it have cheek nipples
<heat>
why isn't she playing pokewomans
<heat>
if she can capture the womans
<heat>
???
<vdamewood>
It cofuses on Pokemon that are Ground, Water, Flying, Fire, and Dark types.
<vdamewood>
focuses*
<zid>
I'm watching a baby play stardew valley
<gog>
she played that this morning
<gog>
we have a tv now and she's pretty excited about that
<zid>
are you married to a baby
<gog>
no
<gog>
she's unemployed
<zid>
This baby is too high maintanance for me
<vdamewood>
zid: Is it a loaner?
<vdamewood>
Time for more pizza.
<gog>
za
<gog>
i love the za
<gog>
the pizz
<heat>
rizza
<vdamewood>
Cheese pie
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<gog>
heat: are you the rizzler
<heat>
absolutely
<heat>
are you going to give me that gyat
<heat>
that bunda
<mjg>
fuckerz
<mjg>
i had a little craving for a pizza 1h ago
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<mjg>
now i really want one
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<zid>
Knock knock
<mjg>
who there
<gog>
heat: stop being skibidi
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<mjg>
ey gogs i have a great knock knock joke
<mjg>
but you have to start
<heat>
mjg, wagwan brotha can you tell me somethin
<heat>
does perf kvm record for you bruv?
<gog>
mjg: knock knock
<gog>
mjg: knock knock
<heat>
gog: mjg: knock knock
<moon-child>
heat: gog: mjg: knock knock
<gog>
heat: knock knock
<heat>
who's there
<gog>
heat moon-child mjg gog knock knock
<gog>
catch
<heat>
catch who
<gog>
bless you
<moon-child>
mjg: gog: heat: knock knock
<heat>
moon-child: mjg: gog: heat: operatin system
<zid>
heat: Is the rumor I heard about ibm aix true?
<heat>
who's there
<gog>
fuck
<heat>
you forgot the joke?
<gog>
yeah
<zid>
I know a knock knoc btw, but you have to start it gog
<mjg>
gog: not bad gogs
<gog>
knock knock
<zid>
who's there?
* mjg
pets some gogs *twice*
<gog>
prr
<heat>
prr who
<moon-child>
hold up there are other gogs??
<gog>
MEOWWWW
* moon-child
pets gog
* gog
prr
<heat>
no one's making sense
<mjg>
you are talking to a dog
<gog>
awoo
<zid>
I tried
<zid>
heat snubbed me
<heat>
what's the rumor about ibm aix
<zid>
That it's a deeply modern oeprating system with lots of active development
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<gog>
i have some active development too
<heat>
yes, it is true
<mjg>
aand ordered a pizza
<zid>
sick, we should all switch to it
<heat>
IBM AIX is a deeply modern oprating system with lots of active development
<mjg>
i heard that too
<mjg>
red hat is migrating to it
<heat>
it was designed as modern from the beginning, so it doesn't need updates these days
<gog>
so if IBM AIX was the answer on jeopardy
<gog>
one would say
<gog>
what is an operating system that is deeply modern with lots of active devlopement?
<zid>
onyx
<heat>
wrong
<zid>
deeply modern -> eschewing keyboard layouts
<gog>
that's not how you play jeopardy zid
<zid>
active development -> heat is still alive
<zid>
qed
<heat>
that is true
<moon-child>
for now
<heat>
you wouldn't dare killing me moon-child
<heat>
my dad works at nintendo
<zid>
I would urge you all to bear in mind, before you do any work on a computer, everybody who ever worked on babbage's thinking machine have all died
<heat>
you'll be banned from nintendo switch multiplayer
<gog>
ada lovelace was the first to die
<gog>
i admire her so much for that
<gog>
i hope i die too
<zid>
first person to be killed by having touched a computer
<gog>
yes
<zid>
is a pretty epic epitaph
<heat>
wouldn't it be weird if they weren't dead?
<zid>
it'd at least give computers a reason to exist heat
<zid>
"If you *really* must touch a computer, at least it makes you live forever"
<moon-child>
i mean
<moon-child>
no one who's ever used onyx has died
<moon-child>
jsut saying
<zid>
It's partially a punishment
<zid>
moon-child: Incorrect
<zid>
My cat was in the room while I used onyx, and she's currently rotting in the garden
<heat>
she didn't use it
<zid>
she did
<heat>
how
<zid>
touched the keyboard while it was running, that's what using a computer means
<moon-child>
the rot is alive isn't it
<zid>
the rot is, she isn't
<heat>
dang
<moon-child>
zzgwedgjybhhnb ,gggkijykm,k.']
<heat>
stroke moment
<zid>
I wouldn't
<zid>
or at least, wash your hands afterwards
<zid>
I'm waiting for the replacement to deliver itself
<zid>
As cats are wont to do, they just sort of show up and ask for things, and then you steal them
<zid>
That's how I get all my cats
<moon-child>
zid can i have some ecc ram
<zid>
yea as long as you want ddr3
<zid>
it's good stuff though
<zid>
2GHz, temp sensors, etc
<moon-child>
that's not enough ddrs
<zid>
It's faster and nicer than the ram in this machine :(
<zid>
ddr4 is such trash
<Matt|home>
...
<mcrod>
the mobo did memory training again
<mcrod>
fuck
<Matt|home>
i am..... extremely depressed right now..
<zid>
mcrod: lost 5 mins of your life?
<mcrod>
about 8
<mcrod>
Matt|home: why
<Matt|home>
i gave my sister push access to my repo, and she basically rewrote my entire codebase after getting super excited..
<Matt|home>
i mean it's obviously better, im just.. sad
<zid>
I would have done it if she didn't
<zid>
cus the 4 lines I saw deeply depressed me
<Matt|home>
thanks zid that really makes me feel better..
<mcrod>
Matt|home: do not rely on anyone on IRC to make you feel better
<zid>
how's your plan to become a baker coming along?
<moon-child>
fwiw if it were me i would have forcepushed over the original code
<mcrod>
that may sound cold, but there are a lot of assholes
<moon-child>
Matt|home: what codebase?
<Matt|home>
... i've been writing a blackjack simulator in C. my code wasn't super efficient or clean or nice or anything but it worked and it was a learning experience for me
<Matt|home>
and she's got her own entirely different style and it's just more streamlined and other stuff
<zid>
I'll fix her code
<zid>
then heat can rewrite it into C++ and make it slower and harder to read
<Matt|home>
please don't.. im just gonna go for a walk and buy drugs or something
<zid>
then gog can make it WEBSCALE
<mcrod>
Matt|home: that's... that's just called experience
<mcrod>
nothing to get upset over
<Matt|home>
silly me assumed i was making progress and could theoretically finish a project for once. guess i was wrong. bbl
<gog>
if any of you is mean to mcrod i will beat you up
<moon-child>
i don't wanna be mean to mcrod but can you beat me up
<gog>
sure
<mcrod>
you just want to be touched
<gog>
see you tomorrow
<moon-child>
tx :3
<gog>
how long is your layover btw
<mcrod>
layover?
<mcrod>
is he going to rajaejuibnakmaln?
<moon-child>
I think like an hour
<gog>
oh
<zid>
I like how most of these people are deep in the swamp mcfrdy
<zid>
mcrod
<zid>
so they're not like "Take this fundamental course difference", they're like "make shared_ptr part of C++99"
<mcrod>
pretty much
<mcrod>
That there should never be a compiler switch ever to disable a feature. It just fragments the language.
* mcrod
stares at -fno-strict-aliasing, -fno-exceptions, -fno-rtti...
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<heat>
if a feature needs disabling it /may/ not be a feature
<gog>
exceptions bad
<zid>
-fextra-exceptions
<zid>
cout should always exception the return value so you can look for short writes, like printf
<zid>
because a left shift can't have a return value, that'd be silly
<zid>
making the language different in order to support a thing
<zid>
just make it the same language, but bolt ever increasing complexity to it
<moon-child>
public static friend void *cons operatorzid::<>()[]{}
<zid>
perfect
<heat>
Zid<'>
<mcrod>
"Break ABI on every language release by mangling the version in every name"
<heat>
Zid<'a> I mean
<zid>
is that zid wrt the differential of a?
<heat>
no
<heat>
its rust zid
<zid>
<'a> makes things rusty?
<zid>
did you do AoC day 1 yet?
<heat>
differential would be a'
<heat>
no, not yet
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<zid>
you only have 5 hours left
<kof123>
i guess "matt" is out. :/ i wrote blackjack and "concentration game" in ti-basic in math class. that is not to brag, it is to say....was your code full of gotos, and was it typed in on a little 10-line screen or whatever? its not the worst blackjack program :D