<midfavila>
it has its own screen handling routines built in
<midfavila>
which is both cool and annoying as all hell
<midfavila>
while i'm shaking up core i might replace gnu m4 with quasar m4
<midfavila>
it has a similar story to se
<midfavila>
in that it also originates from software tools in pascal
<midfavila>
final count, of the fifty or so packages under core/, tcc only had trouble with twelve
<midfavila>
many of which were C++ so they don't even count
<midfavila>
starting to think this might actually be viable
<ioraff>
have you tried the same thing with cproc?
<midfavila>
briefly, but I wasn't impressed
<midfavila>
still, cproc is an exciting project
<midfavila>
if i knew more about compiler design (and, you know, computing in general) i'd definitely contribute to it and qbe
<midfavila>
...oh, actually, some of the problems tcc ran into were a result of the problems with the curses library
<midfavila>
i'll definitely lose some (maybe even most) of the programs I use right now if I switch to tcc, but I think that that's a double-edged sword
<midfavila>
force me to write more of my own software and actually learn stuff
<midfavila>
as it stands it's looking like i'll need to write my own http client
<midfavila>
curl, wget and axel rely on libre/openssl, and axel doesn't compile anyway
<midfavila>
exciting stuff
<Torr>
Leaving
<Torr>
See ya folks
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<sad_plan>
midfavila: in regards to oasis linux. cproc builds more or less the whole distro though. with the exception of the kernel though.
<sad_plan>
theres like 9 packages left that doesnt build with cproc according to his issue about it.
<sad_plan>
103/114 builds with cproc is quite nice imo
<midfavila>
hmm
<midfavila>
maybe i'll give it a shot again soon
<midfavila>
really glad to hear the project is progressing well
<midfavila>
what toolchain aside from qbe/cproc does oasis use? llvm, binutils, elfutils..?
<sad_plan>
no llvm at all. but yes, binutils and elfutils is in the repo
<midfavila>
aah
<sad_plan>
I really like oasis too, but as you said earlier, no package manager sortof puts me off tbh. I too been curious as to how I could put kiss on top of it, or make kiss more like oasis in any regards. more speficially the static linking part :p
<midfavila>
it hasn't been very hard for me
<midfavila>
i've just gone through my core and had the build append -static to the CFLAGS and LDFLAGS
<midfavila>
sometimes you need to patch buildfiles or run a quick sed
<midfavila>
only thing that's given me persistent trouble is zlib and stuff built atop it
<sad_plan>
its not that its hard to build a static system. I previously build everything up and including velox (the wm which oasis uses), aswell as some terminal based browsers.
<midfavila>
re: toolchain i only ask because i've been looking for a slightly less gargantuan set of binutils. you might have seen me whining about it
<midfavila>
oh, definitely
<sad_plan>
never had any issues with zlib, but we're not using the same one though :p
<midfavila>
yeah
<midfavila>
i'm using sortix libz
<midfavila>
(i have no idea how my system still boots)
<sad_plan>
the statis stuff gets difficult when you suddenly want a modern browser. or anything remotly modern I mean. I was trying to get something webkit based done, buut when I got to build gtk+3, it seems I couldnt get passed the mesa requirement
<sad_plan>
lol
<midfavila>
yeah, that would definitely represent a problem
<midfavila>
fortunately,
<midfavila>
I don't really need a modern browser
<midfavila>
:smug:
<midfavila>
although I'm keeping dynamic libraries around and a gcc package under unofficial/stable
<sad_plan>
I know. lol. but I wanted something a bit more usefull. although when using it for some time, and having used lynx for a couple of weeks, you kinda get used to it
<sad_plan>
I thought about that too, as gcc shared libs is a pita for me when upgrading gcc
<midfavila>
idk man aside from not being able to use JS on the one site i actually need it, links is more pleasant and useful than my regular browser
<sad_plan>
I build gcc's bin static, but keep the shared libs. which means I gotta build it twice. unless someone else got a better idea on how to do it though
<sad_plan>
whats your regular browser?
<sad_plan>
I thought you used links as the regular one
<midfavila>
"regular" as in won't make a normal person freak out when they see it
<midfavila>
i daily a fork of links2, but when I need to use the modern web I use a UXP browser
<sad_plan>
ah gotcha. lol
<sad_plan>
I see
<midfavila>
yeh
<midfavila>
i open it maybe once or twice a week
<midfavila>
check my webmail, might go on ebay, poke at my bank and that's really it
<midfavila>
hmm
<midfavila>
i'm gonna need an even smaller X distribution
<sad_plan>
if thats all, its really easy to keep a really minimalistic system. I do brows alot, but mostly for linux stuff, or watch some content from yt or some shit. Im sure I could manage with a simpler browser though.
<midfavila>
oh, i browse invidious from links
<sad_plan>
I did try to build netsurf, but the perl stuff got me stuck...
<midfavila>
i have it pipe stuff to my native player
<midfavila>
netsurf isn't worth it
<sad_plan>
yeah, invidious is great. might also wanna check out piped too. suppsedly its faster
<midfavila>
piped requires JS doesn't it?
<sad_plan>
I just wanted to try it out, and see. but yeah. using it on oasis I was abit meh about it.
<sad_plan>
Im not entierly sure tbh
<sad_plan>
but probably yea
<midfavila>
it does
<sad_plan>
bummer
<midfavila>
part of the appeal of invidious to me is that it can be used from within links
<midfavila>
or, you know, i can abuse curl
<sad_plan>
thats nice though. perhaps Ill revisit using links
<midfavila>
you totally should
<midfavila>
i have a patched version packaged to add xembed support
<midfavila>
that way you can use it with tabbed or something
<sad_plan>
curl is create. or any tool which lets you watch it without the browser. I usually download my stuff, or watch it with ytfzf
<sad_plan>
cool
<sad_plan>
I was always curious about that one. how to you tab it though?
<midfavila>
i've never done TLS programming before so having training wheels for lack of a better term will help a lot
<midfavila>
"training wheels"
<sad_plan>
sure
<midfavila>
cool, that's packaged and set up
<midfavila>
refreshing to see someone explicitly write a posix makefile
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<midfavila>
also refreshing to not see shit like recursive makefiles or the build system modifying your flags without telling you
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<sad_plan>
yeah, mcf seems to really care for those kinds of things. aswell as a sane C standard. in regards to cproc and stuff. he seems to avoid c++ among other things. oasis avoids harfbuzz altogether i.e. harfbuzz is written in c++ if you didnt guess it already :p
<midfavila>
oh, that too, but i meant bearssl itself
<midfavila>
you just make and use a for loop to dump the object files into your preferred place
* midfavila
does a chef's kiss
<midfavila>
as god intended
<midfavila>
now to see if curl will build with tcc and bearssl
<midfavila>
holy shit
<midfavila>
*wild*
<midfavila>
oh, no, never mind
<midfavila>
it didn't link against bear
<midfavila>
easy enough fix
<midfavila>
oh, shit, i'll need to patch links
<midfavila>
hm
<midfavila>
gonna be busy
<midfavila>
anyway i'm off for the night
<midfavila>
it's really late
<wael[m]>
bye bye
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<vouivre>
hello
<wael[m]>
hello
<sad_plan_>
hello
<vouivre>
In the past, Dylan wrote a script kiss-revert
<wael[m]>
what does it do
<sad_plan_>
correct, but he eventually removed it
<sad_plan_>
it reverts to just the core packages
<sad_plan_>
removes everything else
<vouivre>
the idea was to uninstall almost all packages ..... yes
<vouivre>
but in between Dylan dropped it
<wael[m]>
i like that idea lol
<wael[m]>
i dont have to reinstall or recompile anymore
<vouivre>
I have modified it to fit the actual packages
<vouivre>
personnaly I use it in a chroot when I create a new package
<vouivre>
what about reintroduce it ? I can create a PR.
<testuser[m]12>
contrib: remove kiss-reset
<testuser[m]12>
This is best handled manually.
<vouivre>
it was the comment of Dylan
<vouivre>
perhaps I don't know how to do it manually, but there is no problem
<vouivre>
with this script and it works always as excepted
<sad_plan_>
just use the KISS_FORCE variable, and you can remove everything forcefully
<wael[m]>
whaaaaa
<vouivre>
ok, but you have to list every packages to remove
<vouivre>
right ?
<sad_plan_>
well, yes. you can also use the script which will list those for you. hold on. ill fetch it.
<sad_plan_>
itll list those for you, thus you can remove a package + its now orphaned packages
<sad_plan_>
itll probably be a little easier than listing just about every package if you have like 150+
<vouivre>
ok, it could probably works.
<vouivre>
I can imagine I could get the same result as kiss-revert but with your script sad_plan it has more use cases
<vouivre>
ok, after having a quick look on the description, I prefer the script kiss-revert
<testuser[m]12>
Is there any alternative to running `while :; do sync && sleep .5; done` to prevent data loss due to power cuts ? A mount flag or something
<vouivre>
if it can't be added to kiss, could it be added to awesome-kiss ?
<wael[m]>
testuser: afaik on btrfs theres commit=1 or commit=0
<testuser[m]12>
@illiliti non-go age alternative?
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<vouivre>
Did you plan to propose a package for community ?
<wael[m]>
oh yay fzy fork that im not blocked from
<sad_plan>
never really thought about it tbh. didnt think anyone would be interested in it anyway
<sad_plan>
but sure. I dont see any reason not to put it into community, if theres any interest for it
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<vouivre>
I have it on my list to package. If it's in community, it's easier to install it on my other computer.
<vouivre>
I would like to have it with the PR with multi-selection.
<vouivre>
You can package it, or I'll do it. Like you want.
<vouivre>
Ok, discussion for later :-).
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<sad_plan>
Im sure other people would enjoy fzy over fzf, but as you said, it might be open for people to discuss. In case certain features will be missed. Like multi selection as you mentioned. Ill look into it when I get back on my laptop. Perhaps open an issue about it.
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<jslick>
I might be interested in fzy; haven't tried it yet. fzf is the only reason I have go installed
<sad_plan>
Exacly. Fzy is written in C anyway, which is the prefered language around here
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<Guest54>
Hello! Im having a problem, dont know if this is the place to ask but im going to do it anway.
<Guest54>
I installed kiss linux with defconfig (i did add framebuffer support and amdgpu support)
<Guest54>
Now that im booting it it seems to hang and not get to the init (maybe a amdgpu problem?)
<Guest54>
Any help is appreciated
<wael[m]>
hi oak
<Guest54>
Hello wael
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<illiliti>
i assume you're using uefi, right?
<Guest54>
Yes
<Guest54>
im using uefi
<wael[m]>
he is, with efibootmgr
<illiliti>
make sure that all efi modules are compiled in kernel
<Guest54>
Why would that work?
<Guest54>
its booting fine its just not getting to the init
<illiliti>
can you get a error log or something?
<Guest54>
I wouldnt know how
<Guest54>
Through ssh?
<illiliti>
screenshot?
<Guest54>
It doesnt really show any errors
<illiliti>
blank screen?
<Guest54>
No
<Guest54>
it shows the normal boot up sequence before the init
<illiliti>
give me something so that i can understand where is the problem
<Guest54>
I have a picture on my phone, wait a second
<illiliti>
ok
<Guest54>
Im gonna get a irc client on my phone, i cant find the image
<phoebos>
you can write a README or a page for the community wiki
<phoebos>
yes!
<vouivre>
perhaps I will be the only one to use it, but who knows, perhaps one time somebody else will use it
<phoebos>
the README would be readable like `kiss help limine`
<vouivre>
phoebos: yes I think to those two possibilities...... hhhmmmm
<phoebos>
up to you. more documentation is always better
<vouivre>
you convinced me to write a README ;-).
<illiliti>
midfavila: i'm thinking about rewriting musl makefile in posix make
<illiliti>
with those tcc patches + posix make we could have pretty suckless libc
<vouivre>
thank you
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<midfavila>
go for it
<midfavila>
although for what it's worth musl-tcc seems to have trouble with dynamic linking
<midfavila>
usr/lib/libc.so segfaults
<midfavila>
. _.
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<wael[m]>
phoebos: illiliti: oak is still unable to boot, same thing even with the firmwares specified
<wael[m]>
he wants to do an initramfs but i dont think it will do anything if at all
<illiliti>
say him to try to make config with make localyesconfig
<wael[m]>
what would that do
<wael[m]>
i know it would redo the entire configuration from scratch and the user has to do y n on each question but what would that fix
<illiliti>
it creates a config specific to current hardware
<wael[m]>
i never knew that
<wael[m]>
oh what
<wael[m]>
it wants to use hte mint kernel, how do i specify it to base a configuration off of?
<testuser[m]12>
<illiliti> "this script has its use case..." <- it'll break if you have some coreutils alternatives set to anything other tha. Busybox
<ioraff>
boot mint, download the kernel source, then in the source directory run make localyesconfig.
<wael[m]>
nono, the kernel oak is trying to build is 5.19.3, localyesconfig wants to use the mint kernel configuration from /proc/config.gz on the host system
<wael[m]>
aka 5.13.5-generic blah blah
<illiliti>
testuser[m]12: i said that we shouldn't hardcode a list with busybox. we should make that list dynamically based on user core repo
<illiliti>
this way nothing will break
<wael[m]>
nvm made it use a existing config, now just erroring with zcommon config not found!!
<testuser[m]12>
It's still have to check alternatives tho
<illiliti>
no
<illiliti>
we shouldn't check them
<illiliti>
imho it's up to user to fix them
<illiliti>
because if we implement checking, that would be a mess
<testuser[m]12>
then shouldn't it be up to user to decide wat to remove
<illiliti>
no
<illiliti>
we don't need a perfect script that will work in all cases
<illiliti>
it's fine to have limitations. just document them maybe
<testuser[m]12>
Also
<testuser[m]12>
We need to come up with some system to make decisions
<midfavila>
polls obviously
<midfavila>
nothing has ever gone wrong with polls
<midfavila>
:^)
<wael[m]>
communism
<midfavila>
for all you cproc users out there, what assembler and linker do you use?
<testuser[m]12>
We need to decide on
<testuser[m]12>
VERSION markers
<testuser[m]12>
implicit vs explicit destdir
<testuser[m]12>
writing parts of kiss in C
<illiliti>
midfavila: how about something extreme like neat{as,ld}
<testuser[m]12>
provides system
<illiliti>
but seriously, gnu as/ld
<midfavila>
rip
<midfavila>
using binutils kind of defeats the simplicity advantage of something like cproc i think
<phoebos>
> all you cproc users
<phoebos>
mid you're overestimating us
<midfavila>
all three of you?
<midfavila>
:p
<phoebos>
not that I'm even a member of that group
<midfavila>
kek
<testuser[m]12>
What did acheam use for polls last time
<testuser[m]12>
> The implementation deliberately does not free allocated memory as it all is freed by the OS at the end of execution. Memory usage is still quite light as it uses string and value interning. In the future we could use an arena allocator for minias and still avoid manual calls to free.
<testuser[m]12>
sus
<illiliti>
no it's ok
<illiliti>
mold doesn't free too iirc
<phoebos>
obsd doesn't free accessible memory
<phoebos>
acheam probably just used an html form
<midfavila>
>minias
<midfavila>
neat
<midfavila>
will need to check it out
<midfavila>
...as soon as I find a way to get a non-bash shell to compile under the new chroot
<midfavila>
ksh fails at link time with an unknown symbol error and dash includes gnuisms, so i'll need to patch one of those or find a replacement
<illiliti>
oksh?
<midfavila>
openbsd korn shell
<illiliti>
and? does it work?
<midfavila>
oh, my bad, i misinterpreted what you meant-
<midfavila>
i'm using oksh
<midfavila>
it's the ksh that fails to build
<midfavila>
amusingly bash builds just fine
<illiliti>
ah
<midfavila>
but oksh and dash lose their minds
<illiliti>
what about yash
<midfavila>
i've tried using yash with kiss before, it doesn't work
<illiliti>
policing me for nothing is kinda dumb as you see
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<ehawkvu>
Regarding the decisions that testuser[m]12 brought up, I think it'd be nice to have a repo, potentially called 'guidestones' where we outline what we want kiss to be like
<ehawkvu>
We can even take the old guidestones and adjust them to our liking
<ehawkvu>
also re: VERSION - it is way too useful, and makes packaging big projects (like X) very nice
<ehawkvu>
I do get the criticism though
<phinxy>
why does libglvnd have installed file conflicts with mesa? How would I go about building mesa, remove libglvnd first and then rebuilt it?
<phoebos>
do you have alternatives disabled?
<Ogromny>
illiliti: lol drew is dumb af here
<phoebos>
(KISS_CHOICE=0)
<phinxy>
No
<phinxy>
Should I have alternatives disabled when installing either mesa or libglvnd?
<phinxy>
mesa libEGL.so, libGLESv2.so .. are in kiss alternatives after rebuilding mesa.
<midfavila>
so
<midfavila>
figured out the problem with netbsd curses and some other stuff
<midfavila>
turns out? i forgot that i was using a recuse compiler i passed the chroot from my host system
<midfavila>
s/recsue/rescue/
<midfavila>
recuse
<midfavila>
can't even spell my mispellings
<phoebos>
phinxy: what's the problem
<phinxy>
Trying dri driver instead of gallium. Not sure if its applied unless I swap libglvnd alternative to mesa alternative
<phinxy>
OH, libglvnd only replaces .so and leaves the .so.VERSION of mesa?
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<ioraff>
the mesa build script should detect whether libglvnd is installed change a meson flag accordingly
<ioraff>
s/change/and change/
<midfavila>
can one of you guys post the result of running nm on /lib/libc.a ?
<midfavila>
i want to see if anyone else's static musl has the abort symbol set to 0
<midfavila>
(admittedly it seems like a lot of functions are set to 0...)
<midfavila>
i'm trying to figure out what the hell is going with tcc and musl during linktime, where programs claim to not have access to abort if things are static
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