acheam changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | | post logs or else | song of the day
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<wael[m]> is specifying DESTDIR important in packages?
<wael[m]> i see many packages doing them differently: exporting it manually, setting it in make, and having NONE at all. ( eg. zlib and many others )
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<illiliti> that's debatable wael
<illiliti> ioraff: --without-openssl
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<illiliti> testuser[m]12: if you could make it work for us, please do
<testuser[m]12> illiliti: is it acceptable to add an extra tarball to openssl source with pregenerated files? Can be made with gh actions
<testuser[m]12> It generates some asm code aswell but it should be possible to defer that to compile time
<illiliti> should be fine
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<wael[m]> @illiliti : are you trying to make KISS without OpenSSL?
<wael[m]> also, about DESTDIR, dilyn said that KISS already sets DESTDIR at build. I don't believe there is a style choice since I'm not sure which one am I supposed to use for packages.
<illiliti> i'm investigating such possibility
<wael[m]> Please let me know how it goes.
<wael[m]> Im interested in using LibreSSL instead of OpenSSL
<illiliti> DESTDIR and well as VERSION markers is a highly controversial topic which led to the conflict in the past. there are both arguments against and for it, so decide for yourself. i don't want to impose my view on you
<illiliti> you can use libressl
<illiliti> ioraff uses it afaik
<wael[m]> I asked explicitly to get your and others opinion
<illiliti> my opinion is that you should always use explicit DESTDIR
<wael[m]> But where exactly
<wael[m]> Export? Or in make install
<illiliti> in build file
<illiliti> make DESTDIR="$1" install
<wael[m]> I believe meson/clang compiled apps will have to export
<illiliti> yeah
<wael[m]> But apps using make will do that yes
<wael[m]> Alright thanks yous
<wael[m]> Also, if ioraff uses libressl, wouldnt it require an entirely new repository? If so where is it
<wael[m]> Wait, so I don't have to make my own KISS fork to get libreSSL?
<illiliti> what do you mean by KISS fork?
<wael[m]> Like GKISS for example
<wael[m]> or Glasnost
<wael[m]> With custom repositories and rootfs that would be using libressl
<illiliti> well, you could
<wael[m]> Hmm
<wael[m]> Has anyone tried to get KISS with sbase+ubase?
<wael[m]> I've seen the package builds having unlinked sed for some reason
<illiliti> unlinking isn't needed anymore
<illiliti> sbase sed should work
<illiliti> and i'm pretty sure everyone tried to use sbase+ubase, including me
<illiliti> it's possible to replace busybox with them, you just need to find replacements for other utils that it provide
<illiliti> e.g mdev -> mdevd
<illiliti> blkid, lsblk, ... -> util-linux
<illiliti> init -> runit, s6
<illiliti> and so on
<illiliti> of course you can keep busybox for this stuff, but then i see no point in sbase+ubase
<wael[m]> Ubase doesn't provide blkid and lsblk
<wael[m]> Neither does busybox?
<illiliti> busybox has only blkid
<wael[m]> I mean, isn't busybox/ubase meant to replace util-linux or am I wrong
<illiliti> busybox can replace util-linux
<illiliti> ubase can't really
<illiliti> there's also toybox btw
<wael[m]> whats toybox?
<illiliti> 0bsd alternative to busybox
<wael[m]> is it a busybox fork aiming to be more featureful or smaller?
<illiliti> no, it isn't a fork
<wael[m]> then what could be the differences between it and busybox in terms of features?
<illiliti> in terms of features, it is less feature-complete than busybox
<wael[m]> to be honest the only thing i need in a coreutils is for it to be as small as possible whilst still having the really good find syntax and grep -R, sed -i because im too lazy to make _ file
<wael[m]> ls flags like the ones in busybox as well since they come in handy
<wael[m]> i also need man pages that actually have information about the program, not like busybox
<illiliti> you could install posix manpages
<wael[m]> it also seems ubase doesnt have the most basic features like listing usb name descriptors with lsusb, df doesnt have terminal column checking(?) but also cant even compile due to 'undefined reference to minor'
<wael[m]> illiliti: where?
<illiliti> kiss b man-pages
<illiliti> yeah ubase lsusb sucks
<wael[m]> alright with that i guess im sticking to trying out busybox or toybox
<wael[m]> or... i could use util-linux alongside sbase...?
<illiliti> aye
<wael[m]> what is a 'aye'?
<illiliti> affirmative
<wael[m]> interesting
<illiliti> oh, i forgot one nuance about toybox
<illiliti> it needs bash to build and author resist to drop it
<wael[m]> NEVERMIND
<wael[m]> GOD DAMN
<illiliti> so you have to patch it out
<illiliti> there's patch available
<wael[m]> if author is resiting to drop bash which is required to compile i am not going to use it
<wael[m]> i thought it was a simple makefile ;( why does it need bash
<illiliti> i see no reason why it should require bash
<wael[m]> if it doesnt even come with bash, and it aims to replace coreutils, whats the point?!
<wael[m]> why does it even need bash to get built in the first place is my question
<wael[m]> not even gnu coreutils need them afaik
<wael[m]> why does it need bash to build?
<wael[m]> also the comments are pretty funny
<illiliti> i don't know. i don't understand why landley resist to merge that patch
<wael[m]> no thats not what i mean, i mean why is requiring a shell needed? what is it going to be used for?
<wael[m]> is it used for sanity checking?
<illiliti> i think it needs shell to init/generate makefile or something like that
<illiliti> just like ./configure script
<wael[m]> the way it also looks when its compiling is also very weird IMO, its not a bunch of compiler logs or CC source.c like linux or busybox
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<wael[m]> `/usr/bin/kiss: line 1900: can't create /dev/null: Permission denied`
<wael[m]> what the fuck happened here
<illiliti> something wrong with /dev/null permissions
<wael[m]> its 0755
<illiliti> should be 666
<wael[m]> spooky
<illiliti> did you make a switch to mdevd or something?
<illiliti> because with mdev everything should be ok
<wael[m]> no i didn't do anything, i have used it for a week
<wael[m]> it just suddenly happened
<illiliti> hmm
<wael[m]> well i fixed it, no need to wonder again (hopefully)
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acheam changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | | post logs or else | song of the day
<acheam> o/
<wael[m]> \o
<testuser[m]12> acheam: hiiiiii
<acheam> wassup
<acheam> what happened to the other 11 testusers lmao
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<wael[m]> is arm-none-eabi-gcc available on KISS?
<testuser[m]12> wat
<testuser[m]12> no
<wael[m]> mfw cant compile qmk firmware without doing some packaging
<phoebos> |o| acheam
<Ogromny> wael[m]: what's your keyboard
<wael[m]> ID75
<Ogromny> Oh fucking fuck
<Ogromny> OLKB <3
<Ogromny> I have a Preonic and a Planck
<testuser[m]12> Rich
<wael[m]> how is it
<wael[m]> plank is fucking expensive yes
<wael[m]> s/plank/planck
<Ogromny> Yep it's expensive but it's really good quality
<testuser[m]12> 110 for this thing?
<Ogromny> I don't use the Planck anymore cause I was really missing the 5th rows
<testuser[m]12> bruh
<wael[m]> i am wanting to get QMK on kiss so i can compile new qmk layout
<wael[m]> i want to achieve less keys for no reason, and one of those being to remove number row, is it important?
<wael[m]> or how is it WITHOUT them
<testuser[m]12> I just have gk61
<wael[m]> i used to have something similar before i switched to id75
<Ogromny> wael[m]: if you don't play game, or don't write a lot of text/document, the 5th rows is not that required
<wael[m]> i game.
<Ogromny> then maybe it'll be a problem
<wael[m]> on second thought i might need number row so i can switch to ak47 and glock faster in csgo
<wael[m]> i could use my mouse :thinking:
<Ogromny> I droppes the Planck cause it was fucking boring to remap every fucking key when playing
<wael[m]> i hate via
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<wael[m]> can lspci not list device names?
<wael[m]> nvm it was pciutils
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<sad_plan> wael[m]: if you wanna use libressl, you only need to fork those packages tht require it. run 'kiss revdepends openssl' fork those packages, and youre done basically. only a handfew packages requires some actuall work to work correctly with libressl. I use libressl myself aswell
<wael[m]> I wanted to mainly 'fork' KISS to use sbase+ubase but it seems after some digging I think it might not be worth it, is there not a libressl kiss repo already existing that I can simply use?
<sad_plan> you dont really have to fork anything to use s/ubase, it should work more or less out of the box, unless some flags are missing. I know midfavila uses s/ubase + some 9base stuff iirc. Ive done it too for that matter. a *suckless* distro has probably been an appealing thought for alot of people.
<sad_plan> I have one, but I got alot of statically linked stuff, so it might not work for you
<wael[m]> I wanted to also get static linking working but I figured its not worth it
<sad_plan> its not too hard imo. some packages will be a real struggle, but most of them work fine. mesa related stuff is a pain, unless you can disable mesa stuff, like with mpv. building mpv statically isnt that hard
<wael[m]> I plan to use programs that reliy heavily on libraries
<sad_plan> in any case, you can use mine, aswell as dylins repos for a reference. I also got a fully static repo if youre interested aswell. ive been aiming with using toybox there instead of busybox. just mentioning it seeing as it was broughth up earlier here :p
<wael[m]> I'm finding this to be much more complicated if I had an kiss repo overlaying the existing ones, hence why I wanted to make a fork for my own personal usage
<sad_plan> well why dont you? its rather easy :p
<wael[m]> Also, why toybox? I had talked about it here not long ago and its maintainer is ehh
<wael[m]> @sad_plan : stop encouraging me >:( I need the cons and downsides
<sad_plan> why not? I wanted something smaller, which wasnt busybox, or s/ubase
<wael[m]> I'll check it out I guess.
<wael[m]> I'm currently trying to fix my kernel soo
<sad_plan> well.. less packages, seeing as most packages will be make deps. but more work, as things require some work to actually build statically. often you have to figure out what libs to use, and point it to those
<wael[m]> Is statically linked going to be smaller than dynamic?
<sad_plan> refactor branch for the newer stuff in any case. havent worked too much on it lately though
<sad_plan> no, bigger, as it links the neccessary symbols from libs into the bin
<sad_plan> you may also be interested in looking into oasis linux, or even sabotage linux aswell, if static linking is appealing to you C:
<acheam> there is also dilyn's kiss-static repo
<wael[m]> I do not know if I should go static linking or dynamic, as I said that one program I plan to target and use requires .so or dynamic libraries to exist
<acheam> You can always slowly rebuild packages as static and see how you like it you don't need to dive fully into static
<wael[m]> so some packages can be static?
<wael[m]> what about mesa?
<sad_plan> mesa is a shitshow when it comes to static linking. iirc they refused to use static libs. i think dylin mentioned it at some point
<sad_plan> also, regarding forking packages, you can also just symlink all the other files except the buildfile, so you dont have to deal with bumping the version
<wael[m]> hmmm.
<sad_plan> but yes, you can build a partially static systems. its what ive done, but I still want a fully static one, like oasis, but well. mesa...
<wael[m]> oasis works without mesa?
<wael[m]> iirc it uses wayland
<sad_plan> oasis uses velox as a wm, which does not require mesa. it also uses netsurf, which doesnt require mesa either
<sad_plan> so no mesa needed
<sad_plan> you can also look into tinyx if you want xorg. no mesa needed there either
<sad_plan> its mostly the browser part thats tricky
<wael[m]> ah yes tinyx, the only thing that would never work with my setup
<sad_plan> why? you can still use firefox and stuff
<wael[m]> Firefox?
<sad_plan> I personally use surf and some wyeb, but firefox still works for me in tinyx. its just that tinyx itself doesnt use mesa, so you wont get the gpu acceleration I suppose
<wael[m]> I thought using surf in kiss was impossible
<sad_plan> why?
<wael[m]> I tried to use it but I ended up with dependency hell and not being able to compile webkit2gtk
<wael[m]> something about harfbuzz icu
<sad_plan> yeah, you have to use harfbuzz-icu
<wael[m]> which, does not exisy
<wael[m]> s/exisy/exist
<sad_plan> it does, just not on the community repo. check ehawkvus xorg repo for reference
<wael[m]> that's what I am using
<phoebos> package it yourself, just revert the commit that dropped it
<wael[m]> oh
<wael[m]> yeah it was dropped
<wael[m]> but its still a required dependency of surf
<phoebos> so package it!
<wael[m]> okay!!!!
<wael[m]> also, I feel like using surf or wyeb is not going to be a good browser to use on the daily since I plan to voice chat with friends or watch HTML5 videos which are broken AFAIK
<phoebos> i would git checkout 5197d012; kiss-fork
<phoebos> webkit2gtk is pretty yuck anyway
<phoebos> you could use chorizo
<phoebos> :p
<wael[m]> what is that? Never heard of it
<phoebos> acheam:
<wael[m]> I read it as schizo for a second
<acheam> lmao dont do that to yourself
<phoebos> hehe
<wael[m]> do what
<acheam> oh god all the links are dead
<acheam> my website is rather out of date
<wael[m]> the git repo
<wael[m]> its gone
<wael[m]> @acheam : you made it?
<acheam> yeah
<acheam> well I forked it from another browser but rewrote most of it
<wael[m]> its a surf fork isn't it
<wael[m]> wowie
<acheam> it uses the same browser engine though
<wael[m]> can it still do the things I expect it to do
<acheam> as surf
<acheam> probably? its buggy though
<acheam> just use lariza if you want something like that
<acheam> I dont even use it anymore lol
<acheam> Im using librewolf
<wael[m]> bruh
<wael[m]> I find it sad firefox is the only browser I can use without actually sacrificing features I need
<midfavila> wael[m] I forked community from about a year ago
<midfavila> you might need to modify my packages since they use the previous KISS package format, though
<wael[m]> nice
<midfavila> but otherwise it should be pretty trivial
<wael[m]> and you use it?
<midfavila> yes
<midfavila> i maintain my own fork of KISS
<midfavila> as mentioned, s/u/9base are the primary userspace constituents
<midfavila> there are a few components from *BSD as well
<wael[m]> does it actually have not sacrifice features? Referring to the coreutils
<midfavila> do you mean to ask if the tools have feature parity with GNU equivalents?
<midfavila> if so, then the answer is no
<midfavila> they're strictly POSIX
<wael[m]> hmm
<wael[m]> I personally like util-linux so that kinda sucks
<midfavila> util-linux is largely necessary even with s/ubase
<wael[m]> so its being used?
<midfavila> a few programs from it, yes
<midfavila> including mount and fdisk
<wael[m]> yessss
<phoebos> wael[m]: you can choose the provider of each individual program with kiss a
<midfavila> also this
<wael[m]> I'd rather remove the programs I don't plan to use
<acheam> yo mid
<midfavila> greetings, acheam
<midfavila> how goes it?
<phoebos> ok, but it's not necessary. you can install sbase, ubase, 9base, util-linux then just pick and choose
<acheam> it goes all right
<acheam> just enjoying my summer break
<acheam> and yourself?
<midfavila> stuck at home with the big coof
<acheam> ouch
<acheam> sorry man
<midfavila> my housemate caught it and brought it back
<acheam> hope you're not too symptomatic
<wael[m]> what's a big coof
<midfavila> the rona
<midfavila> acheam, it's been basically just a bad cold for the most part
<wael[m]> oh ow that sucks
<midfavila> i had a fever for a few days, super fatigued so I just kinda died for a few days
<midfavila> cough was obviously a thing that happened, apetite loss. recently I've lost taste and scent
<midfavila> which is honestly the worst part of the whole experience
<midfavila> i'm sitting here, trying to enjoy my egg-fried rice, and it tastes like fuck-all
<sad_plan> wael[m]: what features do you require that makes i.e. surf, wyeb, vimb etc, not a viable option? I mean, if you do wanna use a webkit browser that is
<wael[m]> entertainment
<wael[m]> webaudio
<sad_plan> youtube still works, but you gotta build some libs first
<sad_plan> gstreamer and gst-plugin/gst-plugin-base
<wael[m]> which are
<sad_plan> it works, but its not perfect
<sad_plan> I mainly opt to use mpv instead for video though. its better that way
<midfavila> yeah webkit is shit
<midfavila> just download your media
<sad_plan> I know
<sad_plan> thats exacly what I do ^
<midfavila> was a comment to wael[m]
<sad_plan> ah ok, but still
<wael[m]> shit
<wael[m]> I use Spotify...
<midfavila> fuck, apparently it can take as long as six months to recover senses post-covid
<midfavila> this is bullshit
<midfavila> fuck living in a city
<sad_plan> then kiss isnt for you, unless you use gkiss though.
<wael[m]> I do use gkiss
<sad_plan> alot of people has some serious effects after having corona, so yeah
<midfavila> i won't be able to enjoy tendies for up to *six months*
<midfavila> that's a fucking *crime*
<midfavila> i'm a NEET goddamnit, how am I supposed to cope with this
<midfavila> ;w;
<sad_plan> lol
<wael[m]> what's a neet
<midfavila> what's a search engine
<wael[m]> yeah what's that
<midfavila> :thinking:
<wael[m]> I think its a mechanical V8 engine that searches for its purpose in life
<wael[m]> phoebos: git checkout 5197d012 doesnt work and neither doe the commit exist, how would i go about forking harfbuzz-icu?
<phoebos> cd community
<phoebos> etc
<wael[m]> its in community?
<wael[m]> i thought it was in kiss-xorg
<phoebos> it was
<phoebos> idk about kiss-xorg, presumably not
<wael[m]> i personally couldnt find it there
<sad_plan> it was in xorg aswell, but it seems I cant find it either. doenst show up in git history either being removed
<phoebos> the ehawkvu guy might be interested in putting it in there then
<sad_plan> either that or just build harfbuzz with icu support
<wael[m]> i have opened an issue relating to it, its likely they saw it
<wael[m]> i got harfbuzz-icu nontheless, let me try out surf now
<wael[m]> whats the package that provides msgfmt?
<wael[m]> i remember it did exist but im not sure what the name was
<phoebos> probably gettext, you might be able to get around that
<wael[m]> gettext is unavailable
<wael[m]> phoebos: how?
<wael[m]> gcr:
<wael[m]> ui/ ERROR: Program 'msgfmt' not found or not executable
<wael[m]> Program msgfmt found: NO
<sad_plan> cant you disable it? what are you trying to build?
<wael[m]> a dependency of surf
<wael[m]> aka gcr
<phoebos> try just removing everything referencing it in, or replacing it with /bin/true or something
<phoebos> alternatively, install gettext
<wael[m]> but gettext doesnt exist
<phoebos> ?
<wael[m]> its not a package found in the repositories i use
<wael[m]> is it in kiss-repo?
<phoebos> then package it
<wael[m]> aw maaaaaan
<sad_plan> revert to previous version. shouldnt require that
<sad_plan> and make an issue for it
<wael[m]> gcr?
<sad_plan> yep
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<sad_plan> or patch it out
<sad_plan> I have a patch for it thanks to kyxor
<wael[m]> sad_plan: give give give give
<sad_plan> probably needs some adjustments but you figure that out
<sad_plan> a not on that. I use webkit2gtk 4.1, because of libsoup3, if you use 4.0, just dont alter it
<sad_plan> I noticed the patch changed that in
<sad_plan> s/not/note/
<wael[m]> i thought this was referring to the need of gettext in gcr
<wael[m]> i assume gcr is some cryptographic library, which is why surf needs it for SSL maybe?
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<sad_plan> gcr is need to check the certificat of a website
<sad_plan> but yes, it is. if you dont need gcr to build surf, you dont need msgfmt either
<sad_plan> which solves your issue
<wael[m]> isnt certificate of a website important to confirm?
<sad_plan> its the viewing part if im not wrong. but yes, checking the validity of a cert is important to security
<wael[m]> so yes id rather patch gettext out of gcr than to get rid of it entirely lol
<sad_plan> if im not wrong, it just patches out the viewing part. however, you can verify that yourself, if you patch out gcr, then go to a site with a bad cert
<sad_plan> if nothing, then surf will just accept the bad cert
<sad_plan> I assume anyway
<sad_plan> if security is a must for you, then firefox is probably the way to go, or chromoium. or some forks of it.
<sad_plan> I also mentioned reverting gcr to a previous version aswell, which doesnt need msgfmt
<wael[m]> yeah i was going to say firefox would probably be a good realistic choice
<wael[m]> surf is literally too limiting on the web and im not a schizo yet
<sad_plan> ff is a good choice. Id rather use that than any chrome based stuff imo
<sad_plan> webkit browsers in general has alot of rendering issues, but appart from that, I suppose theyre fine. it works for me anyway
<sad_plan> in any case, if you revert commit ac70cff on kiss-xorg, you should be able to build gcr
<sad_plan> seeing as the newest build requires msgfmt
<wael[m]> thanks but um i dont think id like to use surf now that im considering it
<sad_plan> fair enough :p
<wael[m]> anyhoo, considering you use libressl and use custom repositories, do you overlay them ontop of an existing KISS system?
<wael[m]> i still find overlaying packages to be more painful than to just maintain the packages i would be using for my system
<sad_plan> I just put my repo above the other kiss repos, so mine takes priority over those
<wael[m]> hmm i'm really not sure what to do
<wael[m]> you also seem to be maintaining your own X11 packages, why?
<sad_plan> because of static linking. ehkawvu doesnt include alot of the x11 static libs, which I need to build some stuff static. thus me having to fork those pacakges
<wael[m]> oh okay
<sad_plan> i.e. dwm and sowm is one of those cases. I ust glazier atm, which uses xcb instead, but yeah. same case there really
<wael[m]> i got so confused forking X11 packages since they all had duplicate sources and builds, till i realized ehawkvu has a libXmeta for all X11 packages to use
<wael[m]> its a headache oww
<wael[m]> i'm now feeling quite lost in this mess, unsure to make an entirely new KISS fork or to just make package repository overlays DX