acheam changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | | post logs or else | song of the day
<wael[m]> you know what im going to try to make my own kiss fork for fun
<sad_plan> statically linked hopefully? :p and with bearssl right? :p
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<wael[m]> i was going to use libressl
<wael[m]> i dont know whats the difference all i know is that in SLOC: libressl > bearssl 3x > openssl 13x
<wael[m]> and probably not statically linked intentionally since literally the major programs are going to be required to not be statically linked for the thing im trying to target
<sad_plan> bearssl is way less known, thus less support for it, and again then higher chances of you having to patch stuff if needed :p bearssl is really small though. oasis linux uses it
<wael[m]> i dont want the hassle of patching things, so i guess sticking with libressl
<sad_plan> rust needs a patch for that. a tiny one though
<wael[m]> libressl? alright thanks for pointing that out
<sad_plan> yes, rust needs a patch to build with libressl
<wael[m]> if im correct it would be in your kiss-dumpsterfire repository riiiight?
<sad_plan> the benefit of using libressl is that you can find alot of patches in openbsd's repo. they got a repo called ports.
<sad_plan> yes
<sad_plan> ive forked those things that needed due to openssl. like rust, nodejs ffmpeg etc
<wael[m]> time to steal tons of build files
<wael[m]> i mean fork
<sad_plan> have at it
<wael[m]> whats configure-hos, tooldir=/usr in binutils/build for?
<sad_plan> thats just the way its setup from upstream, with the excepion of the LDFLAGS. Im assuing it has something todo with crosscompiling. tooldir is likely just to point it to your bins
<wael[m]> well works without it so /shrug
<sad_plan> yup
<wael[m]> also i noticed that libressl is 3.4.3, while the latest is 3.5.3
<wael[m]> is that intentional?
<sad_plan> yes, 3.5.x is the unstable branch, and broke alot of stuff for me, so I chose to go with the stable branch instead
<wael[m]> what did it break?
<sad_plan> I dont recall at the top of my head. I couldve sworn I had it my commits but it seems it does not
<wael[m]> i dont see how 3.5.x is unstable especially when the last update was in May
<sad_plan> i think its on their github page. hold on, and ill find it
<sad_plan> but yes, it seems 3.5.x is stable after all
<wael[m]> alright ill continue using it
<sad_plan> im not sure whats the deal here, but it seems that 3.5.2 is the correct version. iirc they had separate branches before anyhow
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<wael[m]> about that distro, i think ill just be overlaying packages
<wael[m]> ill start by trying to get libressl working
<sad_plan> its simpler that way. theres also nothing stopping you from 'making your own distr', but instead of just start from scratch, and fork everything. fork stuff that you care about first, then move on from there. i.e. with libressl as you said, then perhaps move on to use toybox, and add patches, and changes to reflect toybox. and so on. just an example
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<wael[m]> in curl, was enable-symbol-hiding removed for libressl and enable-optimize for misc?
<sad_plan> I dont recall actually. but Im assuming I just wanted less stuff, and more optimization or something
<wael[m]> alright
<wael[m]> also i know this is going to be answered with 'personal preference' but how are configure flags supposed to be structured? enable disable with without or disable enable without with im pretty confused
<wael[m]> i want to make the build files consistent and not messy like what i saw when forking some packages
<sad_plan> Ive set them up like upstream does basically. not that it matters, as the configure script will read them just the same regardless. I just put them where I see fit
<sad_plan> you can also put them in one really long line if you want, but it just makes it less readable
<wael[m]> each package with their own style?!
<sad_plan> if you want that, thats up to you
<wael[m]> hmm
<sad_plan> nothing seems to have been broken by the recent libressl, so it seems was mistaken. thanks for noticing. else I would probably not have been updating it for a really long time :p
<wael[m]> :D
<wael[m]> also how come ffmpeg has openssl as a dependency when its not even listed in the dependency file
<sad_plan> kiss checks if its links to libs that is owned by different packages, which it will then add those to the dep file. or something like that. Ive had packages list deps I didnt know of, and then checked it out
<sad_plan> alot of times, packages has auto detection for different things. so if its not installed, itll automatically disable it. now if you install foo pkg, then rebuild foobar, now foobar will list foo as a dep, even though it didnt initally
<wael[m]> i dont believe kiss can do that its too small for that
<sad_plan> run kiss revdepends curl, then build libnghttp2, rebuild curl, rerun kiss revdepends curl, and tell me it doesnt :p
<wael[m]> why is gnupg1 named gnupg1???
<wael[m]> ive always wondered this since i saw kisslinux for the first time lol
<sad_plan> because its version 1.x.x and not 2.x.x
<wael[m]> whwhhwh ohhhhh yeah that wait why not specify it by the build file
<wael[m]> i mean version file
<wael[m]> and why 1.X.X? if there is a latest why not?
<sad_plan> why? libnghttp2 isnt a dependency for curl inherently
<sad_plan> its not, gnupg has 2.x.x as latest. gnupg2 is packaged iirc, if you should need/want it
<wael[m]> no im just wondering why not just have a single latest package called 'gnupg'
<sad_plan> I dunno, as I said, I dont know the reasons behind the splitting. but its the case for other stuff aswell, like libsoup
<sad_plan> theres all kinds of reasons for splitting a package
<wael[m]> there is literally no package that has a dependency of gnupg1
<phoebos> gnupg1 is sufficiently different to gnupg2, in particular it has fewer dependencies so better suited to the main repo
<phoebos> because gnupg1 isn't a library lol
<sad_plan> ^ there you have it
<phoebos> the reason it's in the main repo is because dylan signed all his commits, so you could verify them (it's the first thing in the install guide)
<wael[m]> gnupg2: libassuan libgcrypt libgpg-error libksba npth pinentry
<wael[m]> gnupg1: bzip2 curl openssl zlib
<wael[m]> i personally havent set up gpg signed commits, are they important?
<phoebos> not everyone committing to the community-maintained main repo signs their commits, so you couldn't right now
<sad_plan> its just to verify that youre the actuall committer.
<sad_plan> not everyone cares for it as phoebos just mentioned
<wael[m]> eh i am me and no one wants to be me so
<wael[m]> wait, do i have to recompile firefox for/with libressl?
<sad_plan> if it links to openssl's libs, then yes
<wael[m]> crap okay
<wael[m]> its 4 AM i cant go outside while firefox is compiling
<sad_plan> openssl isnt listed as a dep though, but youll see when you eventually switch and try to reopen ff
<wael[m]> --shared-openssl is removed intentionally in nodejs right?
<sad_plan> yes
<sad_plan> else you need openssl
<wael[m]> oh no openssh needs openssl
<wael[m]> is there libressl
<sad_plan> itll statically link openssl libs without it, so you can safely run libressl without nodejs giving you hassles
<wael[m]> wait im confused by the names
<sad_plan> just change in the dep file. requires nothing else
<wael[m]> openbsd = libressl and openssh
<wael[m]> openssl != openbsd project
<sad_plan> ironically, yes
<wael[m]> where is my libressh
<wael[m]> thank you for the python libressl patch btw
<sad_plan> no problem. just updated python aswell. as it were outdated by 2 versions
<wael[m]> i assume the weird configure ssl flags are needed for libressl as well
<wael[m]> why without-pymalloc tho?
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<sad_plan> yeah, I belive so
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<sad_plan> pymalloc was from oasis i think. I had some issues before with yt-dlp. and I belive thats why I use those
<wael[m]> oh no i cant use yt-dlp with libressl?
<wael[m]> wait why is xorg-server in kiss-xorg built with Meson but xorg-server in your repository is built with configure?
<sad_plan> you can, just gotta rebuild it usually
<wael[m]> oh yeah uh how am i supposed to rebuild my system now
<sad_plan> because I have switched yet. we're gonna switch out meson with muon, but I havent gotten there yet
<wael[m]> force remove openssl and rebuild packages?
<sad_plan> switch to libressl, and the yes, force remove openssl
<wael[m]> alright wish me luck
<wael[m]> or dont cuz im stealing from your repositories builds anyway
<wael[m]> i mean fork
<sad_plan> should be any issues as far as Im aware of. it works on my systems anyway :p
<wael[m]> uh oh
<wael[m]> after reinstalling it it seems to work??
<wael[m]> my system still somehow works thats weird
<sad_plan> well, you know, libressl actually works :p
<wael[m]> how do i tell if packages build with libressl (eg. git curl) actually work lmao
<wael[m]> i mean, with libressl detected and things
<sad_plan> if the purpose for it actually does what you expect it to
<sad_plan> say, with curl, download something, if it doesnt work, itll complain about something. usually some libs missing or w/e
<wael[m]> currently recompiling all the packages that had it as a dependency
<wael[m]> im getting alot of <command-line>: warning: "OPENSSLDIR" redefined
<wael[m]> errors while compiling nodejs
<wael[m]> <command-line>: note: this is the location of the previous definition
<wael[m]> can i safely ignore that
<sad_plan> did it error out?
<wael[m]> no
<sad_plan> then im sure its fine, aslong as it didnt error out and still builds fine
<wael[m]> honestly im glad i chose the 'overlay' route instead of making my own distro
<sad_plan> well you gotta take it step by step anyway, so gotta start somewhere
<wael[m]> im the type of person to make a big jump and regret it
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<wael[m]> \o
<ioraff> o/
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<testuser[m]12> Hi
<ioraff> hi
<sad_plan> hi
<wael[m]> hi
<ioraff> wael[m]: I wrote a quick and dirty patch for node to link against libressl
<wael[m]> im
<wael[m]> im 80% of the way of compiling nodejs
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<wael[m]> sad_plan: consider downgrading libressl
<wael[m]> This crate is only compatible with OpenSSL (version 1.0.1 through 1.1.1, or 3.0.0), or LibreSSL 2.5
<wael[m]> due to this version mismatch.
<wael[m]> through 3.4.1, but a different version of OpenSSL was found. The build is now aborting
<sad_plan> what isnt compatible with 3.5.2?
<wael[m]> rust
<sad_plan> fix the patch
<sad_plan> just change the version numbers in the patch. should be fine
<wael[m]> 3 3 x to 3 5 x ?
<sad_plan> yeah, Im not sure if that works or not, but you can give it a go obviously
<wael[m]> i will
<sad_plan> but that does sound familiar though. it may be one of the reasons I didnt update, because it broke rust.
<wael[m]> we shall find out if it compiles with 3 5 x and libressl 3.5.1
<sad_plan> 2. not 1
<sad_plan> but yes
<wael[m]> nope it still failed
<wael[m]> now what
<sad_plan> fork libressl to your own repo. I dont currently use rust, so I wont downgrade it, aslong as it doenst give me other issues
<wael[m]> i am doing my own repo
<wael[m]> its just that specifying 3 5 x in t he libressl patch didnt help
<wael[m]> its probably that it doesnt even support that version
<sad_plan> probably
<wael[m]> also its 3 not 2 neither one lol
<wael[m]> it seems rust is outdated or the patch is outdated? openssl-sys has 3.5.X support already in place (, whats going on?
<wael[m]> rust is trying to be built with openssl-sys 0.9.72, that explainsi t
<wael[m]> why that is im not sure
<sad_plan> Im not sure. and tbh, i cant look into that atm :p
<ioraff> look at my repo. libressl 3.5+ has opaque structs
<wael[m]> libressl package or rust package?
<sad_plan> ^ cheers. ill look into that tomorow
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<wael[m]> yeah i assume its the rust patch
<wael[m]> ill try it i guess
<ioraff> rust
<wael[m]> another day another checksum mismatch
<ioraff> the fix is for libssh2-sys. also, it may take awhile for vendored crate updates to propagate
<wael[m]> i really love and hate the fact everyone has their own kiss repository not gonna lie
<wael[m]> love for the fact anyone can easily fork the package to suite their own needs and preferences
<wael[m]> hate for the fact that theres too many
<ioraff> me too. I try to symlink things to bigger repos as much as possible.
<wael[m]> why cant we all have one giant repo to have user repositories? :D
<wael[m]> famous last words
<ioraff> used to search a lot more repositories. not sure what happened.
<wael[m]> oh thats gonna be real useful
<wael[m]> but it seems it doesnt really search that much
<wael[m]> ioraff: if you symlink things, why arent they listed as git submodules?
<wael[m]> > ../../../repo
<wael[m]> it seems its an outside repository nevermind
<ioraff> it used to index every github repository with the kiss-repo tag, plus whatever was manually added. I assume the tag check was removed.
<ioraff> right. maybe submodules would be a good idea.
<wael[m]> personally i want to avoid using symlinks or submodules so i dont have a really dumb looking KISS_PATH
<wael[m]> say, if for example i had package zlib fork which is at a higher priority set in KISS_PATH and it got updated in another repo, would it update?
<wael[m]> KISS_PATH=repo/custom:repo/upstream
<wael[m]> if custom packages got outdated but upstream had the same packages whilst being up to date would they update? or get ignored
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<ioraff> they'd update if the version file is symlinked
<wael[m]> so basically, no?
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<ioraff> correct
<wael[m]> thanks
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<wael[m]> it would have been real worrying if it was true
<ioraff> only the package in the highest priority repo matters.
<wael[m]> what the heck rust failed with your patch even though the build file explicitly says to ignore checksums i think?
<wael[m]> let me check the build file in your repo
<wael[m]> ohhhhhhh its only for curl-sys not open-ssl okay
<ioraff> what's only for curl-sys?
<wael[m]> checksum checking
<wael[m]> the build file i copied had it disabled for curl-sys explicitly
<ioraff> you need to disable it for libssh2-sys
<ioraff> too
<wael[m]> libxslt 1.1.35-1 => 1.1.34-1
<wael[m]> python 3.10.6-1 => 3.10.5-1
<wael[m]> why is kiss trying to downgrade?
<wael[m]> oh yeah the python i installed is not in KISS_PATH nvm
<wael[m]> ioraff: just adding it to the for loop your build file has :D
<ioraff> isn't it already in the for loop?
<wael[m]> yes.
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<wael[m]> rust successfully compiled
<Ogromny> hi
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<wael[m]> hi @Ogromny
<wael[m]> anway mfw libressl Xorg can't open
<wael[m]> nvm had to recompile with libressl
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<phoebos> i keep thinking about reviving kiss-find, it was useful
<phoebos> i don't understand github actions though
<phoebos> could just try to get admicos' version back
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<phoebos> well, it works
<phoebos> if anyone wants an update
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<wael[m]> wait using that i can find that someone has made mutlilib before on KISS
<wael[m]> wow
<wael[m]> however its just a kiss fork 'mkiss'
<Ogromny> What do you think about writing a helper like `kiss find blabla`, and it'll return every git where blabla is found ?
<Ogromny> A kiss-find but localy
<Ogromny> Instead of doing a website where we can search package, why not creating a db.csv or whatever, and create a package `kiss-finder` who will be updated every x hours with the new db.csv ?
<phoebos> Ogromny: that's what kiss-find is
<phoebos> the website was a thing jedahan made
<Ogromny> Yeah but why not create a package kiss-find who give you the helper kiss find ?
<Ogromny> ohhhh
<Ogromny> I didn't know that
<Ogromny> thanks x)
<phoebos> if i get around to setting up gh actions, i'll put it in community
<wael[m]> wooooooo
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<wael[m]> is it possible to build pulseaudio only for its libraries?
<illiliti> apulse?
<wael[m]> yep
<wael[m]> i think i managed to do just that, pulseaudio tarball doesnt have pulseaudio in the file list
<ioraff> if the program is linked against libpulse, wouldn't it need either pulseaudio running or to be running under apulse to function?
<wael[m]> im running firefox with music playing right now under apulse without pulseaudio running
<wael[m]> but if apulse isnt detected it tries to launch pulseaudio automatically
<wael[m]> im not sure why it overrides alsa even though its compiled with support for it.
<ioraff> it assume it gives priority to pulse since its alsa support is lackluster
<wael[m]> thing is, it worked fine on a previous distro, alsa used but if pulseaudio daemon running it uses that
<ioraff> so just don't run it under apulse?
<wael[m]> firefox? it wont work without apulse even though alsa is compiled like i said
<ioraff> did you compile it with support for both?
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<wael[m]> for both yes
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<Ogromny> ioraff: If you want just to have the libs of pulseaudio you can disable de "daemon" during the compilation, and I think you can also disable every tools of pulseaudio, I think like this you'll only get the lib and nothing else
<wael[m]> > you can also disable every tools
<wael[m]> with flag -Ddaemon=false some tools are still compiled, not sure how to disable them
<wael[m]> best bet is to just remove them
<Ogromny> Yeah I don't see any option to disable the tools
<Ogromny> but yeah just rm them in the build file
<wael[m]> is it to safe to use non-POSIX subsitution like "${CFLAGS/-Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2/}" in build files?
<phoebos> :|
<illiliti> use sed, stick to the posix
<wael[m]> i cant tell if thats yes no or its posix
<wael[m]> illiliti: alright
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<midfavila> if you need to check whether a a shell form is POSIX, check either the dash or man-pages-posix man 1p sh manpages
<illiliti> yash
<midfavila> you should probably get a drink before reading any of the posix manpages though, they're insanely verbose
<midfavila> yash is based but also doesn't work as a /bin/sh
<midfavila> ...then again, neither does dash on my system, for some reason
<illiliti> something wrong with your system i'd say
<midfavila> yeah idk what's up with it
<midfavila> it's been a problem for over a year, but only in the case of building a few very specific SDL packages
<wael[m]> yash?
<midfavila> dash
<midfavila> unless you're asking what yash is,
<midfavila> in which case, it's basically POSIX bash
<midfavila> that's a huge oversimplification, but it works
<wael[m]> theres way too many shells out there
<midfavila> and yet all they do is reimplement the bourne language with extensions
<wael[m]> out of all of them except bash and zsh yash is the best one interactive use
<midfavila> mmmmmeh
<midfavila> i'm sticking with rc
<acheam> ksh!
<midfavila> ksh is fine
<midfavila> rc is better
<wael[m]> ksh - mksh, oksh, pdksh
<midfavila> :^)
<wael[m]> rc is
<wael[m]> i think its really cool but ive gotten used to POSIX sh and dont have time to switch to something new
<midfavila> i don't really script in rc
<midfavila> although i really should learn to
<wael[m]> id probably switch to rc if dylan embraced it
<midfavila> i mostly just like using it as an interactive shell because of its low resource use
<midfavila> 8kb or less
<midfavila> versus like 1mb for ksh
<midfavila> the hilarious part is that my ksh is dynamically linked and rc is static
<phoebos> annoyingly, man 1p sh only describes the program, not the language spec
<phoebos> I like POSIX man pages
<phoebos> (re: they're so verbose)
<midfavila> oh, huh, weird
<midfavila> and yeah, they're nice, but also like
<midfavila> they're pretty bad for referencing any moderately complex program since they have to cover every edgecase known to man
<phoebos> the language spec is in its own section
<midfavila> is it? what page?
<phoebos> oh yeah bad for reference, but great for understanding it and its history, and for development
<phoebos> not a man page
<midfavila> gay
<acheam> lmao bash(1): "BUGS: It's too big and too slow."
<midfavila> every interpreter should be like rc
<midfavila> include a formal grammar for the language at the end of the manual
<midfavila> acheam, that's GNU for you
<midfavila> you know, on the topic of manuals, what's up with people not using the different sections
<midfavila> i've noticed basically everything just gets dumped under 1
<acheam> incompetence
<midfavila> fair enough ig
<phoebos> midfavila: yes, an interpreter should have a page in 1 for the options, files, etc and a page in 5 for the grammar
<midfavila> i wish people put more work into their documentation . _.
<midfavila> it's at least as important as the program itself, if not moreso
<acheam> b b b b b b but its on the github wiki, mid
<acheam> thats where the youtube tutorial told me to put the instructions on how to drag and drop the installation file
<midfavila> disgusting
<midfavila> btw
<midfavila> doom on the pinenote at a playable framerate
<phoebos> it would be nice to get the shell syntax section of posix converted to a manpage
<phoebos> but michael kerrisk is the only person with access to the roff source!
<illiliti> guys
<illiliti> local has been rejected
<wael[m]> rip
<wael[m]> why are spaces preferred over tabs in kisslinux repositories?
<wael[m]> does dylan himself use spaces?!?!!?!!!?@#!*#@!
<illiliti> oh no...
<illiliti> this flame war again
<wael[m]> nonono im just curious
<wael[m]> i can switch between spaces and tabs im fine with that im just curious
<Ogromny> What is rc ?
<Ogromny> nevermind
<wael[m]> i was just about to give a man page lol
<illiliti> i think with spaces you can align some commands gracefully. with tabs that would be impossible
<wael[m]> illiliti: the only reason im asking is because i want to make a kiss hook and upload it to the kiss hooks repository
<Ogromny> I thought you were speaking about OpenRC, I was like WTF since when OpenRC's authors still develop a shell
<illiliti> use spaces then
<wael[m]> 2 spaces or 4
<ioraff> 4
<wael[m]> would it be fair to have the build time kiss hook also include the strip time? or just compilation time?
<illiliti> if you find it useful why not
<wael[m]> alright stripping included in build time
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<Guest10002> is kiss suckless enough?
<wael[m]> are you a schizo?
<Guest10002> ?
<wael[m]> ??
<Guest10002> kiss is a schizo distro?
<wael[m]> im referring to you
<Guest10002> ? do you call everyone schizo???? are you a schizo? lol
<wael[m]> i am a schizo.
<Guest10002> ok...?
<wael[m]> if you want ''''suckless'''' theres a list here:
<wael[m]> its there for people like you
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<dilyn> going back to Torr's question; yeah we (I) dropped the mailing list because Dylan came back
<dilyn> But we could always bring it back... :eyes:
<dilyn> also we do still own the domain phoebos: -- I just renewed it a couple days ago:)