00:27 <testuser[m]12> Hi

00:28 <Torr> Hi

00:54 <midfavila> christ i can't believe i'm having more trouble with GNU ar than GCC

01:00 <Torr> Their Tar uses octal encoding, so...

01:04 <midfavila> ar, not tar

01:04 <midfavila> as in from the binutils

01:04 <midfavila> libtool (and by extension every program that relies on a GNU-generated configure script) relies on it being GNU ar

01:12 <Torr> Indeed

01:15 <midfavila> screeeeeee I can't even build Athena without autotools

01:15 <midfavila> how is software this unbased

01:18 <testuser[m]12> cc *.c

01:18 <Torr> That one is new to me, what does the Athena program do?

01:20 <midfavila> Athena is the reference widget toolkit distributed as part of the standard X11 distribution

01:20 <midfavila> its library name is Xaw

01:20 <midfavila> "X Athena Widgets"

01:20 <midfavila> so called because they were a product of MIT Project Athena

01:21 <midfavila> if you've ever used XTerm or XCalc, you've used Athena

01:22 <Torr> So Athena was everpresent, eh

01:22 <midfavila> they're primitive, but they have a number of important advantages over other widget sets: they're not encumbered by any unfavorable license, their codebase is very, very small compared to most widget sets, they're very efficient, very simply API...

01:22 <midfavila> and yes, Athena is more common than people realize, even if it's mostly fallen out of use

01:26 <Torr> "unbased", noticed just now. Lol

01:26 <midfavila> one interesting party trick that athena is (seemingly uniquely) able to pull off is ABI compatibility between wholly different implementations

01:26 <Torr> Mit'n Ibm teamed up, eh.

01:26 <midfavila> DEC, as well

01:27 <Torr> midfavila: Do u mean implementations of the X protocol?

01:30 <midfavila> no, I mean implementations of the Athena widget toolkit

01:30 <midfavila> Xaw, Xaw3d, Xaw3dXft, neXtaw, Xaw95, and so on

01:30 <midfavila> all with different looks and (sometimes) different feels, yet so long as you restrict yourself to the widgets provided by Xaw, they're all binary compatible

01:31 <midfavila> doesn't matter *too* much in the real world, but it's neat

01:32 <Torr> Nice

01:45 <midfavila> https://forums.freebsd.org/attachments/xaw3d-2-png.10890

01:46 <midfavila> it can be pretty comfy, but it definitely shows its age in some places

01:48 <midfavila> fortunately, between its simple API and the fact that it's built directly atop Xt, it's not hard to add widgets or modify existing ones

01:48 <midfavila> ...or so I hear

01:55 <Torr> Retro look

01:56 <Torr> TempleOS look

08:01 <lylac> Good afternoon ( ' - ')/

08:03 <virutalmachineus> hi goodnight (-_-)/

08:03 <virutalmachineus> * hi goodnight (-_-)/

08:07 <lylac> waiting around for software from accross the planet ~ - ~

08:29 <testuser[m]12> You need to enable "HTTP Protocol Stack Support" in your UEFI.

08:44 <lylac> where should i get regulatory.db and regulatory.db.p7s from? ive needed it before for wireless networking but it was supplied by the systems pm

11:56 <sad_plan> lylac, regulatort.db should be found on kernel.org git server. i used to use it before, but I figured out I didnt need it after all