acheam changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | | post logs or else | song of the day
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<testuser[m]12> Hi
<wael[m]> \o
<Torr> Hey
<virutalmachineus> HI sir
<Torr> Leaving here
<Torr> See ya
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<wael[m]> cya
<virutalmachineus> see ya brother, may kiss be with you
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<sad_plan> hi
<sad_plan> wael[m]: toybox is actually *less* than half of busybox's size
<sad_plan> busybox is 205k, where as toybox is 72k
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<wael[m]> damnnn
<wael[m]> wait how tf is it 205k
<wael[m]> for me its 1 meg and toybox is 460k
<wael[m]> thats probably because im on glibc
<sad_plan> perhaps. things tend to get way larger on glibc.
<sad_plan> running cloc on both of them will give us those numbers
<sad_plan> the size will also differ from the config you use
<wael[m]> i used the default configuration on both
<sad_plan> ok, never used the def config on toybox, but the current config is a little less than 1m iirc. 800k or something
<sad_plan> or 628k to be correct actually. so not that bad. I still have some tinkering to do with it to make it work correctly though, or atleast sufficently in any case
<wael[m]> so true
<sad_plan> yeah. did you build toybox's init?
<wael[m]> no i just want its coreutilities
<sad_plan> ah ok
<wael[m]> is it similar to busybox?
<wael[m]> if its possible i would prefer to just swap out everything to toybox
<sad_plan> more or less. I just havent been able to get it to boot with the inittab for some reason. Im not sure why. I skipped it earlier and just used shinit instead
<wael[m]> shinit? you can have a shell as an init?
<sad_plan> should be possible. look at dylins repo for it. swapon/off doesnt have the -a flag, so youd have to remove it, or specify what swap partition its on
<sad_plan> yep
<wael[m]> i mean, how would services get ran then
<sad_plan> it just runs the init, nothing else
<sad_plan> youd have to manually start your serivice manager using a bootscript
<wael[m]> ohh yeah that makes sense, that being toybox/busybox runit yes?
<sad_plan> correct
<wael[m]> what about something like sinit?
<sad_plan> same thing
<wael[m]> hm
<sad_plan> shinit and sinit very similar in that matter.
<sad_plan> uses the same signals and everything.
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<wael[m]> stupid question but, are you hovercats?
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<sad_plan> correct :p
<wael[m]> wen gcr gettext fix
<sad_plan> when its getting fixed? I was waiting for ehawkvu's respons on what he wanted to do, but I have the fix if thats what you mean?
<wael[m]> simply patching out gcr from webkit2gtk browsers could fix it but i think playing it safe is probably a better idea, also yeah i think
<wael[m]> i think ill patch out gcr for the time being since i only want to try the browsers out
<testuser[m]12> its a waste to even try
<wael[m]> just curious how it would be like
<sad_plan> the patch already exists, thanks to kyx0r. I could link you to it, or you can build gettext-tiny instead, and build gcr. your call.
<wael[m]> this is the patch right?
<sad_plan> yes
<sad_plan> if youd rather build gettext-tiny, midfavila has it packaged in his repo.
<sad_plan> the patch might needs some adjustment, so just apply it manually. its not a large patch anyway
<sad_plan> testuser[m]12: why?
<wael[m]> testuser: are you going to drop libxslt? its kinda outdated and the old version does not exist anymore ( upstream, not repo )
<testuser[m]12> its orphaned
<wael[m]> sad
<testuser[m]12> sad_plan no ublock
<wael[m]> there is lariza which has adblocking i believe
<sad_plan> is there a better way to build gcc when gcc's bins are static? Ive set up so it builds the bins statically, but including shared libs. every time I build a different version, I always get errors with the shared libs. to build the recent one, I have to revert to a build from a tarball, then rebuild again
<sad_plan> testuser[m]12: /etc/hosts? :p ublock is great, not gonna argue on that one though.
<testuser[m]12> and no extension or built in feature like chromium for dark mode
<wael[m]> tbh i just dont want firefox consuming all my damn memory
<wael[m]> if only it was low like webkit2gtk i'd be happy
<testuser[m]12> ioraff: should all the packages under Abandoned be dropped here?
<testuser[m]12> If anyone actually uses them they'll know when kiss tells them it doesn't exist in Any repo
<sad_plan> darkmode can be enable in one of the later commits. or just created manually. im not saying surf is a better browser, by any stretch. I suppose its a more principal thing or something.
<wael[m]> sad_plan: does ruby build for you on libressl?
<sad_plan> wael[m]: not on my laptop, but on my desktop it does. for some reason. try an older version perhaps
<sad_plan> testuser[m]12: I can take some of those that I use, but i.e go which I previously commited to, is way above my head, if theres something in particular which must be done. bumping version numbers is easy I mean :p
<wael[m]> sad_plan: ive tried all ruby versions till 3.0 and it cant build, why is it a dependency of webkit2gtk anyway?
<sad_plan> webkit2gtk has alot of ruby in it appearantly
<wael[m]> damn wtf what for
<testuser[m]12> Codegen
<virutalmachineus> webkit2gtk is bloat
<sad_plan> build it in a kiss chroot, and just install the tarball afterwards from your user. extract it in /tmp i.e, and just build ruby in there.
<testuser[m]12> Maybe
<wael[m]> sad_plan: why a kiss chroot? i believe ruby provides binaries so i could use those
<virutalmachineus> use vms free from the bloat
<wael[m]> vms != a browser
<virutalmachineus> browsers are huge
<sad_plan> because that way you can actually build it. I was going to say those bins arent made for musl, but I came to think of that you use glibc anyway
<virutalmachineus> might as well run them in vms
<wael[m]> :/
<sad_plan> in any case, building ruby doesnt take that long. just extract a kiss tarball somewhere in a folder. build ruby, run kiss i $(path to ruby tarball)
<sad_plan> has to be ran as root though
<testuser[m]12> lol
<wael[m]> this is painful
<testuser[m]12> vms are adding more bloat if anything
<sad_plan> it is, but its what Ive got currently as a workaround :p
<wael[m]> is libxcrypt on kiss
<wael[m]> aka
<virutalmachineus> qemu is small
<virutalmachineus> even so if you use you're own .mak
<virutalmachineus> * even more so if you use your own .mak
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<sad_plan> testuser[m]12: did you read my comment on gcc?
<testuser[m]12> no
<testuser[m]12> Oh
<testuser[m]12> Send build file
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<sad_plan> I can build the same version, but not a newer one. never tried to build an older one, but Id assume its the same result
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<sad_plan> hm, I was actually not even able to bootstrap it now either. from gcc 11.1.0 to the latest
<testuser[m]12> Send log
<testuser[m]12> try make all-gcc and install-all-gcc
<testuser[m]12> it'll not build libsdtc and stuff
<sad_plan> log
<sad_plan> I thought it was like that already. but I will
<sad_plan> wael[m]: did you get to build ruby? or install a binary?
<wael[m]> nope i gave up trying because webkit2gtk couldnt see it
<testuser[m]12> btw the binary would have statically linked openssl ol
<testuser[m]12> lol
<wael[m]> makes sense
<wael[m]> guess no webkit2gtk for me i guess lmao
<sad_plan> that would be nice if ruby could just do that by itself
<testuser[m]12> why would you ststiaclly link openssl
<sad_plan> why wouldnt I? I mean, I dont have openssl, but like nodejs does it is fine by me. no openssl neccessary, no intereference with libressl
<wael[m]> hmmm i do remember ruby has --enable-static flag
<wael[m]> is it worth it to try
<testuser[m]12> thats for libs
<wael[m]> right ok fuck
<sad_plan> it has --with-static-linked-ext instead. which does what it says :p
<sad_plan> ruby has shared libs, but it doesnt seem toh have any option to disable/enable shared/static libs. just the bins
<sad_plan> wait, it has --disable-shared and --disable-insta--static-library
<sad_plan> s/insta/install/
<wael[m]> hmmmmmmmmmmmm
<sad_plan> this does however not solve the issue wr are having with ruby
<wael[m]> yea
<sad_plan> fucking hell, bootstraping gcc takes foreveeer...
<wael[m]> bootstrapping?
<testuser[m]12> why are u bootstrpping
<sad_plan> yeah. gcc will bootstrap if the versions differ too much
<testuser[m]12> u can disable it
<sad_plan> Im assuming it does, as I was on 11.2 and now building 12.2
<testuser[m]12> wael[m]: Build tools necessary to build the compiler.
<testuser[m]12> Perform a comparison test of the stage2 and stage3 compilers.
<testuser[m]12> Perform a 3-stage bootstrap of the compiler. This includes building three times the target tools for use by the compiler such as binutils (bfd, binutils, gas, gprof, ld, and opcodes) if they have been individually linked or moved into the top level GCC source tree before configuring.
<testuser[m]12> Build runtime libraries using the stage3 compiler from the previous step.
<sad_plan> by this isnt gcc more or less able to build itself? I seem to recall reading that someplace..
<sad_plan> nvm
<sad_plan> what do you guys think of the framework laptop?
<wael[m]> i think its quite burger
<sad_plan> what
<wael[m]> sorry i meant its quite nice
<sad_plan> ah. yes, I also think its really nice. Im really considering switching out my laptop for one
<wael[m]> can it be librebooted?
<sad_plan> no, but theyre talking about coreboot though. which is nice
<sad_plan> its not announced yet though, but its roumored in any case
<wael[m]> what do you think about the pinebook then?
<sad_plan> its also talk of other achetectures aswell. ARM, risc, amd etc
<sad_plan> its a neet project, but massivly underpowered. ive been thinking about the pinephone for a while, but I dunno.
<sad_plan> afaik, all of their devices are really slow
<sad_plan> which is fine I suppose, as theyre mostly for tinkering anyway
<wael[m]> personally ive seen the 'linux' phones are extremely overpriced and id rather go with a lineage/crdroid microg-ed phone
<sad_plan> however, a linux phone is somewhat appealing
<sad_plan> they are. atleast the other one. I cant think of the name atm, but you probably know which one. the not-pinephone
<wael[m]> also the price to performance is extremely garbage
<sad_plan> purism
<sad_plan> indeed ^
<sad_plan> the librem 5. was the phone I thought about. which is even worse with price to performance ratio...
<sad_plan> im sure the fxtec pro1-x is a better option tbh
<sad_plan> or a fairphone
<sad_plan> or if you get a oneplus 6 to install a distro
<wael[m]> there is postmarket os
<sad_plan> yeah, postmarked is really nice imo. its like alpine, but on a phone. which is aaalmost kiss
<wael[m]> kiss linux on a phone
<sad_plan> you can use sxmo on pmos and youll get a suckless phone more or less. in any case a suckless IU
<sad_plan> s/IU/UI/
<wael[m]> also i heard the battery is absolutely shit
<sad_plan> yeah, probably
<sad_plan> I dunno on all the ported builds to various phones, but the pinephone and such is absolutly garbage
<sad_plan> wtf. gcc error out on there not being a /gcc-build/c++tools dir.
<wael[m]> i believe dilyn has made a kiss-community custom git repo before
<wael[m]> but moving to codeberg is going to be an interesting choice because everyone is on github nowadays
<sad_plan> yeah, its one his linode server. but only he has access iirc
<sad_plan> wael[m]: itll be a mirror iirc. so people can still use github. or just email, and send patches on the mailing list or w/e
<wael[m]> so whats the point lol
<illiliti> testuser[m]12: nice
<illiliti> i'm slowly moving to codeberg too
<illiliti> my new projects will be there
<illiliti> however, i'll keep maintaining current projects on github cuz moving them to codeberg is too much headache for me and package maintainers
<sad_plan> isnt it just as easy as creating a mirror? and pushing it to the new mirror?
<illiliti> i don't want to maintain a mirror
<illiliti> either github or codeberg. not both
<sad_plan> cant you just mirror it first, then once you pushed everything to codeberg, just delete it on github?
<illiliti> that would be a disaster for package maintainers
<illiliti> cuz they would need to update sources and stuff. i don't want to put this needless burden on them
<sad_plan> touche. I didnt think of people actually using your stuff.
<illiliti> well, they are actually
<sad_plan> I knoow. I just forgot for a minute :c
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<illiliti> one option can be if first mirror it, then make an announcement about mirror, then submit patches to every distro that maintain my shit and archive github repo
<illiliti> this way nobody will suffer but me
<illiliti> well almost, it's still substantial burden
<sad_plan> but youll end up with all of your shit on codeberg that way. instead of having some stuff on gh and some other on codeberg
<sad_plan> which is more or less what you want
<illiliti> yep
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<dilyn> illiliti: just setup a git hook which pushes to the github mirror whenever you push to codeberg?
<testuser[m]12> and disable issues and pr on shithub
<illiliti> again, i don't want to maintain a mirror in any way
<illiliti> i want to trash away github altogether
<illiliti> wipe it, nuke it
<illiliti> github doesn't support ipv6 for pushing. i won't be able to maintain a mirror in ipv6-only environment
<illiliti> it's one of the reasons why mirror is no go
<dilyn> oho i see i see
<illiliti> yeah
<illiliti> mirror on github implies that i would have to fight with github dumbness
<wael[m]> maybe?
<illiliti> i don't think they will take care of my shit
<illiliti> and the point isn't about having mirror on github at all cost
<wael[m]> our shit*
<illiliti> oh yeah, open-source isn't about *you*
<wael[m]> actually is it sufficient to have a mirror in the first place
<illiliti> it's meson vs muon situation2
<illiliti> pointless to have both
<wael[m]> so have only 1 but the big boy mesa doesnt build without it no?
<testuser[m]12> bruh why does openssl installation script depend on perl
<wael[m]> wtf
<illiliti> you can build mesa with muon
<illiliti> i did that
<wael[m]> wait wha
<wael[m]> if thats done why not just straight up push it now then
<illiliti> please re-read PR comments. i explained it there
<illiliti> TL;DR: mesa needs llvm in some cases and muon doesn't know how to detect llvm
<testuser[m]12> what
<illiliti> cursed
<illiliti> care to sign CLA and submit fix? xd
<wael[m]> or maybe use libressl maybe
<testuser[m]12> fix for what
<testuser[m]12> ig they want to support some system from the 1800s
<illiliti> fix: drop this garbage and use mkdir -p
<testuser[m]12> how would u even use any script on such a system lol
<illiliti> good question
<dilyn> illiliti: creating a pc file for llvm is basically trivial, given that all the information is known at build-time (or queryable at run-time with llvm-config)
<dilyn> so there's nothing really stopping us there
<illiliti> yeah, i just haven't done that yet
<testuser[m]12> can you portably sed within a sed?
<illiliti> afaik it's possible to invoke commands from sed expession, so i think ye
<illiliti> NeXTstep
<illiliti> oof
<testuser[m]12> lol
<wael[m]> :bruh:
<testuser[m]12> their configure shit is already convoluted enough why not just add an autoconf check for "checking if mkdir is broken"
<dilyn> lmfao
<testuser[m]12> soon
<testuser[m]12> [43187/50682]
<dilyn> thicccc
<wael[m]> its not even thicc anymore its just fat
<dilyn> ccchromium
<wael[m]> chromium is far
<wael[m]> t
<dilyn> > chromium is fart
<dilyn> fax
<testuser[m]12> but it can use mic without poopaudio
<wael[m]> true true
<wael[m]> but i did apulse firefox
<illiliti> $manname =~ m|(.+)\.(.+)|;
<illiliti> boobs
<illiliti> you trying to build openssl without perl or something?
<testuser[m]12> sort of
<illiliti> nice
<testuser[m]12> just need to make it use host flags for actual build now
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<ioraff> testuser[m]12: if they're outdated, sure.
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<sad_plan> does anyone here has any experience writing ninja builscripts?
<sad_plan> im experimenting with them, to see if I could possibly build something remotly usefull with it..
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<testuser[m]12> bruh
<testuser[m]12> You're not supposed to write ninja by hand
<illiliti> good start, but yeah general approach is to generate them
<illiliti> or just use posix make
<illiliti> or muon if you need more complex logic
<illiliti> everything else is crap
<phoebos> posix make improves my mental health
<phoebos> unlike every other build system
<testuser[m]12> What's bad about this syntax? It's very declarative
<testuser[m]12> 95% of the time you just need to create targets and set properties on them.
<phoebos> ninja?
<phoebos> yeah ninja is nice, but almost always comes with a generator
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<phoebos> specifically, posix make makes me happy to use more than write
<sad_plan> Great start indeed. Ill look mord into that file. I had trouble including a header file. I just tried to build scroll, as its a simple 2 file program. But yeah..
<testuser[m]12> Know that some people, somewhere, are having the time of their lifes, rolling around in stacks of money earned through billed CMake consultancy hours, books, and conference talks.
<phoebos> lol
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<illiliti> drop gpg guys
<illiliti> btw codeberg has support for it since it was added to git
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<mint> Hello
<mint> I have a question, ive just installed kiss linux
<mint> with the community repo and everything
<mint> i used grub
<mint> but when i booted into grub
<mint> it showed no signs of kiss linux
<mint> just some efi thing
<mint> how can i fix this?
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<ioraff> illiliti: meh
<Ogromny> mint: did you grub-mkconfig ?
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<midfavila> i've discovered pre-dylan KISS
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<Torr> midfavila: Or Tinycore
<Torr> It's curious to see those old projects.
<Torr> Wonder what happened to the creator.
<midfavila> on the topic of kiss, does anyone here run a compiler other than gcc as their primary one?
<midfavila> as I pare my system down I'm considering attempting to replace the GNU collection and binutils
<midfavila> i ran a cloc on binutils today and the tarball that I grabbed had over 4mil lines of code xwx
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<Torr> There's a fork which uses solely Llvm iirc.
<midfavila> (i forgot that llvm exists)
<midfavila> i suppose i should have been a little more precise -- something like pcc, tcc or cproc is more what I'm interested
<Torr> It's rather bloated too, so not a big improvement over Gcc.
<midfavila> s/interested/interested in/
<Torr> Not that I know of.
<midfavila> rip
<Torr> That's your chance midfavila.
<midfavila> yeah any day now :v
<ioraff> not really an improvement at all. compiles faster, but binaries are slower. OSes picked it up for licensing reasons.
<Torr> Pretty much
<midfavila> eh, i'm not super concerned about raw performance, tbqh. it's more the mechanical complexity of the system as a whole that bothers me
<midfavila> ...oh, on the topic of massive development toolchains and accoutrement, you guys might find mold interesting
<midfavila> "modern ld"
<midfavila> apparently it's like 8x faster than llvm's ld
<midfavila> super parallelized or something?
<ioraff> that's fair. but stripping out all of the compiler flags that only gcc and clang support requires one to completely rewrite builds, like oasis
<ioraff> mold is in extra/
<midfavila> oh, guess i'm late to the party then
<midfavila> i haven't tracked upstream kiss for a while
<midfavila> i'm playing in the corner by myself ;w;
<ioraff> what do you use?
<midfavila> i forked kiss around a year ago
<midfavila> so i'm just kind of limping along on that
<midfavila> it mostly works, even
<midfavila> still using libressl and i've replaced busybox with suckless and bsd tools, and swapped the zlib implementation, among other things
<midfavila> repo's here if you want to look:
<midfavila> need to update the readme at some point
<midfavila> i uh, wouldn't recommend you use the packages under official/core though
<midfavila> unofficial/stable might be useful
<Torr> > i uh, wouldn't recommend you use the packages under official/core though
<Torr> Best description ever xD
* midfavila shrugs
<midfavila> my setup isn't very good all things considered, pff
<midfavila> still a major WIP
<Torr> That stuff takes time.
<Torr> Nice setup neverthless.
<midfavila> i'm hoping to gradually rewrite most of core/ myself, or replace larger components with simpler ones
<midfavila> like libressl->bearssl at some point, as an example
<midfavila> in the future, probably drop linux and swap to some other kernel
<midfavila> hBSD is promising
<Torr> I think Carbs used to use Bearssl.
<Torr> U might find some insights on its repo.
<midfavila> cool, thanks for the suggestion
<Torr> Cheers