ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | https://kisscommunity.org | post logs or else | "Seek simplicity but distrust it" -- Alfred North Whitehead
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<testuser[m]>
Hi
<akira01>
Hi
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<sad_plan>
o/
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<bibliocar>
huh, netsurf doesn't even pass the acid2 test.
<sad_plan>
whats this acid2 test?
<sad_plan>
nvm, I found it
<bibliocar>
A normie-tier demonstration of web browser standard compliance, from like 15 years ago.
<bibliocar>
which, in my opinion, was back before the web went to hell.
<sad_plan>
sure. it has been on a downward spiral for a long time now.
<sad_plan>
how does the test even work? im stuck a that hello world on vimb. clicking the nose doesnt do anything
<bibliocar>
The nose lights up bluee for me.
<bibliocar>
nothing happens on a click
<sad_plan>
yeah, it lights blue here aswell, but I figured something else was also suppose to happen
<sad_plan>
I guess vimb fails aswell? :')
<bibliocar>
sounds okay to me, actually. I don't think anything is supposed to happen beyond that.
<sad_plan>
ah, I tried in surf, and the face actually rendered in surf. in vimb only the part around the mouth was yellow, the rest was black
<bibliocar>
oh. Huh.
<sad_plan>
vimb is strange though. I encounter render issues from time to time. maybe its something to do with my setup, or the style.css stuff. makes alot of websites look abit strange at times
<bibliocar>
it's odd because it says it uses webkit.
<sad_plan>
it does use webkit. so one would assume it would behave somewhat similarly to surf, but I often find surf to render websites better.
<sad_plan>
there are still some websites that render poorly anyway though compared to firefox/chromium
<bibliocar>
Yeah, I'm using falkon on my non-programming computer because I'm mostly reading documentation at the moment.
<bibliocar>
my other computer is the one with kiss and netsurf
<sad_plan>
ah. falkon was qt based, wasnt it? only used in some live usb enviroment tbh.
<bibliocar>
yeah, this is my gaming laptop. A big artix install wth lxqt.
<sad_plan>
hows netsurf anyway? does it suck? I tried to compile it statically earlier, but I couldnt get past some perl bs, because perl was statically linked
<bibliocar>
It's usable!
<sad_plan>
aah, artix is nice. used that for some time before I moved over to kiss.
<sad_plan>
Ive been using lynx or links for some time, so anything is an upgrade at that point :')
<bibliocar>
I can look up stuff I need to, but it's frustrating for reading lots.
<sad_plan>
because of poor rendering, or formatting?
<bibliocar>
well, because I'm using the vi frontend and haven't become accustom to the bindings, but also render is poor, and some sites don't work at all. Usually sites not worth using are the ones that don't work.
<sad_plan>
using vi/vim is a learning curve, but I find once you get used to it, you dont wanna go back. I like vim keybindings. hence me using vimb
<sad_plan>
but yeah, if the sites dont work, they probablly not worth it anyway
<bibliocar>
It would be nice to say html4 and CSS[whatever number] work as intended. That way web developers at least have something to shoot for. I can't think of anything worse than the "living standard" of the current web.
<sad_plan>
indeed. but our favorite software doesnt evolve in the same directions as the web does, thus we get conflicts like render issues and what not.
<sad_plan>
Ive gotten to the point that Ive either just have to deal with it, or just take the L and use chromium or firefox
<bibliocar>
99.99% of what's out there doesn't matter. It would be nice just to have, like, a tech search engine and something like the arch wiki, but more extensive.
<sad_plan>
that wouldve been great. but we gotta learn how to manipulate search results on regular search engines instead.
<sad_plan>
there is this other search engine though, with only minimal websites as results. dont recall the name at the top of my head.
<bibliocar>
Yahoo was manually curated, back in the day.
<sad_plan>
in any case, lots of the results there does point to tech related stuff
<sad_plan>
ah, never really used yahoo tbh
<bibliocar>
It's terrible being stuck with google and bing as the only search engine providers. Neither company has any integrity.
<bibliocar>
Couldn't even look up scissoring without the first 10 pages being porn.
<bibliocar>
sorry, ranting.
<sad_plan>
yeah I know. the monopoly isnt exacly great for us consumers.
<sad_plan>
lol, figured
<sad_plan>
no problem C:
<bibliocar>
I'm not going to pay for hosting, so it's not going to be me that addresses it.
<sad_plan>
me neither. I dont really pay for anything myself. I am however intrigued by building my own website, and selfhosting a git server, like several others here does. but Im lacking the neccessary skills atm, and there really no need for it atm anyway :')
<bibliocar>
huh, a nice free git server would be wonderful, and gemini hosting is also free.
<sad_plan>
it would. is it? how come?
<bibliocar>
I wonder if I could run a web crawler from it. They have a free option.
<bibliocar>
wait, I misread
<sad_plan>
yep. why is someone giving away free hosting? even if its only gemini related
<sad_plan>
there has to be a cache there
<bibliocar>
I imagine if they get enough traffic for it to be a problem, it would a be victory for them in terms of widespread use of the platform. It really shouldn't be that expensive to host Gemini. I'm thinking I could run my spiders once a day from my own laptop, and be happy. Just need actual content on the platform first. I'm thinking I could provide that.
<bibliocar>
like run the web, er, gemini crawlers from my own computer, then update the server manually(or at least cron).
<sad_plan>
neither gemini nor gopher is really a widespread protocol, so I dont see they becomming more popular any time soon. but sure, both are some interesting concepts. Havent really looked to much into it besides what ive seen on youtube, or view z3bras website though.
<sad_plan>
are you going to index sites, or whats the goal of crawling gemini?
<bibliocar>
I just searched for weird political stuff once, and wasn't impressed by the content. That said, popularity doesn't matter if you can make the content yourself/yourselves.
<bibliocar>
provide a tech search engine
<bibliocar>
probably just watch a few blogs and sites for updates.
<sad_plan>
I see
<sad_plan>
that could be interesesting
<bibliocar>
I could be the next Drew Devault! Now if I actually had time for programming, too.
<sad_plan>
I belive you have the time to learn programming, if you take the time. even if its 10 minutes a day, its more progress that not doing it at all. it does take time, but its progress none the less
<bibliocar>
I'm trying to make a vector grahpics parser for a custom image format, and am excited about yacc.
<bibliocar>
Oh, I'm doing that. I have stints of high excitement and low excitement, depending on the projects I'm working on. Right now I'm having waaaaay to much, thanks a lot to kiss.
<bibliocar>
much fun.
<sad_plan>
nice
<sad_plan>
kiss steals all my time aswell. or more or less me building static stuff. I dont know why. I could learn C instead of all of this, but no
<bibliocar>
really? kiss u works for me.
<bibliocar>
I mean, alt-ctrtl-f2 into another tty and start working. Tmux works too.
<bibliocar>
oh, you mean the stuff that doesn't build?
<bibliocar>
my current kiss is very minimal.
<bibliocar>
oh, you mean static stuff not in the repos?
<bibliocar>
i did have a problem where I couldn't click enter to continue once.
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<sad_plan>
yes, or just generally building packages statically instead of shared, like usuall
<sad_plan>
I have a mostly functional distro with everything statically linked, with a few exceptions.
<acheam>
nice
<acheam>
I gotta try static linking at some point...
<acheam>
so many cool things to do with KISS and Linux
<sad_plan>
static linking is fun
<sad_plan>
indeed
<sad_plan>
velox is mainly the issue for me. I belive dilyn had the same issue as I do atm.
<sad_plan>
Im also trying to get tinyx to work, but I havent figured out how tf Im going to launch it with xinit
<acheam>
whys that? its static in oasis and mcf is a big fan of static linking
<acheam>
velox, that is
<sad_plan>
its always complaining about missing references. usually you can just point it to the right libs, and itll be ok, but for some reason, velox is just not having it
<sad_plan>
i know right. its bugging me. I just can not see the irony in this tbh
<acheam>
im sure mcf would be willing to help if you ask him
<sad_plan>
I have thought about sending him an email, or opening an issue on his github, but I just havent gotten there yet.
<sad_plan>
but yeh, maybe I should go do that
<sad_plan>
btw, is it possible to build gtk3 without mesa? mesa isnt listed as a dep on their github page, buut if you try to compile it without egl (iirc), itll just fail, complaining about missing egl
<acheam>
theres also #oasis
<testuser[m]>
sad_plan: bruh how else is it going to render the thing
<sad_plan>
framebuffer ofc :D
<sad_plan>
yeah, maybe Ill hit up #oasis
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<acheam>
huh thats cool, I didn't know gtk could run on the framebuffer
<sad_plan>
me neither, but mesa isnt listed as a dep atleast. so Im guessing mesa could be optional
<testuser[m]>
grep for egl calls in code
<testuser[m]>
And see if they're guarded by an ifdef
<testuser[m]>
Else just see what function the code is part of and just make the function return failure value if it's not going to be called
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<bibliocar>
It seems like dynamic linking would mean less time for me compiling, but I'll go static only if I have to. I figure the cproc guy knows best, i don't really know what's involved.
<bibliocar>
i'd love to switch away from llvm at some point.
<sad_plan>
testuser[m]: I do find some egl stuff.
<sad_plan>
this for example: #ifdef GDK_WIN32_ENABLE_EGL
<testuser[m]>
That's for windooz
<acheam>
bibliocar: how will you compile linux?
<sad_plan>
bibliocar: dynamic linking is usually the easiest way to do it.
<sad_plan>
it is.
<bibliocar>
acheam: I haven't figured that part out yet.
<sad_plan>
testuser[m]: EGL is mentioned several times across header files and .c files
<acheam>
well then
<acheam>
time to rewrite gtk
<testuser[m]>
Nothing needs gtk except for broosers anyway
<testuser[m]>
Just use felinks
<sad_plan>
but I do want a brooser. mainly something webkit, as its usually more lightweight and more customizable.
<sad_plan>
is it packaged in community? noticed elinks was recently pushed
<sad_plan>
was that the felinks fork?
<testuser[m]>
Idk
<sad_plan>
ill check
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<dilyn>
sad_plan: if you're just using gtk in the fb you should disable x11/wayland backends, presumably
<sad_plan>
nice. Ill keep that in mind :D
<dilyn>
but I'd be inclined to think gtk is using aspects of GL directly...
<dilyn>
is there some framebuffer port of gtk?
<bibliocar>
I've been looking at a purely vulkan backend, no opengl[es]
<sad_plan>
I have no idea. perhaps. how about tinyGL though? I just seen it being mentioned some places.
<sad_plan>
testuser[m]: it was felinks that was pushed recently to community. as I suspected.
<dilyn>
i've never heard of tinygl :thinking:
<dilyn>
but the whole point of using the buffer is to avoid GL et al
<dilyn>
just use that framebuffer window manager written in python xD
<dilyn>
tinygl seems pretty cool
<sad_plan>
oh god noo
<dilyn>
`On a single thread on an i7-6700 (Skylake, 2015), the standard "gears" demo runs at a higher framerate than glxgears on Mesa using a Ryzen 3900x (2019) (NOTE: TinyGL Compared without SDL overhead)` this is fascinating
<sad_plan>
sure. if its of any use though. i havent really checked it out myself. but Im sure it can be used to ease some stuff if one is avoiding mesa
<sad_plan>
nice
<sad_plan>
elinks was actually not terrible. Im abit impressed tbh. now I have to fork it into my repo.
<sad_plan>
dilyn: did you ever manage to copy things while in velox? wl-clipboard just segfaults and complains about some missing features. I dont recall what they were called on the top of my head though.
<dilyn>
I didn't get into usability tests with velox tbh
<sad_plan>
i mean, copy/paste. mcf dont have any shortcuts for it in st either.
<sad_plan>
ah ok
<dilyn>
just played with it for an hour or two
<sad_plan>
noocsharp: perhaps you know? :p im under the impression that you use velox, or atleast had for any amount of time
<sad_plan>
did you give up on it:
<sad_plan>
?*
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<bibliocar>
woah, it looks like there might actually be openmp support for my vivante gpu. That would be amazing.
<bibliocar>
I might be reading this incorrectly, though.
<bibliocar>
openMP being a way to use the processing power of graphics cards without going through mesa would be amazing. It's the core of that tinyGL project.
<bibliocar>
oh, i think I picked up the wrong thing. This is all about fortran...
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<noocsharp>
sad_plan: copy/paste seems to work fine for me in velox
<noocsharp>
but i use foot instead of st
<sad_plan>
ok, thats one problem out of the way anyway.
<phoebos>
noocsharp: do you use velox full-time?
<noocsharp>
i use sway
<noocsharp>
i would use velox if i could get a web browser to not show up as a black window
<sad_plan>
what browsers have you tried? I mean, if no browsers except netsurf or something works, Im going to have to rethink some things myself
<noocsharp>
chromium and firefox
<noocsharp>
i know mcf uses firefox in velox, so it must be possible to get working
<sad_plan>
hm, good to know
<bibliocar>
Gallium drivers aren't so bad. My solution for hardware acceleration was just to use something vulcan.
<soliwilos>
Anyone looked into sata/nvme ssd's sector sizes? It seems they should be 4k or 8k, but often report 512B to operating systems. I've been trying to figure out what mine are without much luck.
<dilyn>
soliwilos: `stat -fc %s .` should return sector size
<dilyn>
run it in a directory on the disk in question ofc
<soliwilos>
dilyn: That seems to report filesystem values as opposed to drive internals.
<soliwilos>
I
<soliwilos>
I'm trying to match filesystem values to the drive's own size.
<dilyn>
if those aren't alligned that's horrific
<dilyn>
you can use blockdev --getbsz
<dilyn>
or one ofo the many other options (getss)
<soliwilos>
For nvme I tried to use the nvme tool, but it oddly says 512B.
<dilyn>
i looked into this so long ago writing a wiki article
<dilyn>
iirc they do this because of windows lmao
<soliwilos>
From what I've read, most sources say 512B is just a emulated value.
<soliwilos>
Indeed, apparently for win xp compatibility.
<soliwilos>
blockdev --getpbsz says 512, while blockdev --getbsz says 4096.
<soliwilos>
The first one is supposed to be the physical value.
<dilyn>
i imagine the firmware on the device is spoofing the value regardless of the OS that asks for it so the only way to actually determine the physical block size would be to find a spec sheet...
<soliwilos>
I was hoping it wouldn't come to that, but yeah. Just saw some posts by others having trouble finding such specs, I guess the hunt begins.
<dilyn>
yeah they like hiding it...
<dilyn>
presumably nvme-cli should be able to read this information...?
<dilyn>
`nvme id-ns -H /dev/nvme0n1` reports a single size: 512 bytes. which I suppose makes sense for my drive
<soliwilos>
The nvme drive I'm testing it with currently also just reports 512, doesn't even list 4096 as an option.
<soliwilos>
Seems odd, but maybe it really is just 512B.
<dilyn>
it's quite possible... hm
<soliwilos>
Supposedly manufacturers should have changed to 4096 back in 2011.
<soliwilos>
With the "advanced format" standard.
<dilyn>
the plot thickens
<dilyn>
what drive are you testing? I'm using an intel 660p
<soliwilos>
I'm a bit wary of just running nvme format -b 4096
<soliwilos>
It's a samsung 980 pro.
<dilyn>
golly
<dilyn>
certainly feel like that drive should support 4096...
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<soliwilos>
Indeed, seeing people say newer drives might even be 8k, I found the nvme tool's results weird.
<ircman>
hi
<soliwilos>
I saw others (with other drives) post nvme listing both 512 and 4096.
<soliwilos>
Hello.
<ircman>
it's pretty cool that you're able to use irc directly from netcat
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<soliwilos>
You're using netcat? Nice. Presumably a dedicated irc client will still give a more comfortable experience.