ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | https://kisscommunity.org | post logs or else | "Seek simplicity but distrust it" -- Alfred North Whitehead
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<acheam> midfavila: nice
<acheam> made anything nice with motif?
<midfavila> i made okay progress on my XLess replacement, XMLeast
<midfavila> but haven't touched programming in like a month at this point i think
<midfavila> this is a really good album btw
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<testuser[m]> Hi
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<Guest1> testuser[m]: Hi
<Guest1> How are you?
<testuser[m]> Good
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<sad_plan> hi
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<midfavila> totally unrelated to KISS but are any of you interested in pens and stationary?
<midfavila> also hi sad_plan
<sad_plan> rtorrent link seems dead. seems upstream has changed their website. who maintaining it now? jedavis?
<testuser[m]> What's interesting in pens and stationery
<testuser[m]> It just werks
<acheam> midfavila: send link
<acheam> midfavila: a bit
<midfavila> Well, different pens have different feels in the hand and when writing. Same with inks - paper, I haven't experimented with at all, but I'd like to try some nicer stuff in the future, testuser[m]
<midfavila> ...also a pen that can use bottled ink is much cheaper in the long run. that's a not-insignificant reason I've become interested in that stuff lately tbqh :v
<midfavila> acheam: you use a fountain?
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<acheam> no... I do like nice paper though
<acheam> do you use a trackball by the way? Seems like it would fit your personality
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<midfavila> Do you have any recommendations wrt: paper? I've just been using ye olde paper pads for a while and my pen tends to bleed through
<midfavila> and yeah, I do. haven't used a mouse willingly in maybe three years
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<acheam> whats your ball of choice?
<sad_plan> midfavila: you got a ortho keyboard aswell? or even a split? I suppose that could fit you
<acheam> nah I dont see mid using an ortho
<sad_plan> why not?
<acheam> he probably uses a model F or some other obscure old keyboard
<acheam> this is my prediction
<sad_plan> probably. Im not too familiar with tthe oldschool keyboards myself, but I occationally see some beeing mention in r/mk
<jedavies> sad_plan: yeah looks like the URL has changed, will update. Have been using aria2 recently instead so didn't notice.
<sad_plan> jedavies: nice!
<acheam> midfavila: I use 3x5 ampads which I doubt would be too fountain pen friendly, and some moleskines (only because I got them for free)
<acheam> ugh my backup is going at a whopping 527 KiB/s and I have a terabyte to go
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<sad_plan> well thats almost fast if youre used to using tor all the time :')
<acheam> lol yeah
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<midfavila> right now I'm using an Itac Mouse-Trak and a Model M
<midfavila> sorry for the late reply
<midfavila> was rerunning a bunch of cables to my PC
<midfavila> but yeah, it's a terminal variant with a Soarer's
<midfavila> wish I had a 122 F
<midfavila> moleskines are okay acheam
<midfavila> i find them a little overpriced though
<acheam> yeah
<acheam> I wouldn't buy one with my own money
<acheam> would rather get a rhodia or something
<midfavila> Hmm. I've never heard of them
<midfavila> I think my favorite so far has been a Manufactus, but they're hilariously expensive
<midfavila> normally I only pick them up when they're on sale
<acheam> They're a part of Clairefontaine
<acheam> nice
<midfavila> oh, I didn't know they were a subsisdiary. where'd you find that out?
* midfavila facepaws
<midfavila> I'm a dumb
<midfavila> I thought you were referring to Manufactus.
<acheam> oh
<midfavila> Maybe I'll look for a Rhodia next time I'm out for supplies
<midfavila> Running low on paper anyway
<midfavila> yeah every time I go on their site I cringe
<midfavila> an A4 refillable notebook is 150 euros
<acheam> ouch
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<noocsharp> just use a pencil :v
<noocsharp> especially for doing math
<midfavila> pencil would probably be a better idea, but I like using my pen
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<Guest1> testuser[m]: Did you write matrix client because you couldn't find a good one?
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<testuser[m]> Guest1: no, just for fun
<acheam> are you using it right now?
<acheam> or still on gomuks?
<testuser[m]> It doesn't do much yet lol
<testuser[m]> Just need to implement UI stuff
<testuser[m]> Only have message view, and an input field
<testuser[m]> Need room list etc
<midfavila> is there any not-garbage matrix client?
<midfavila> all of them seem half-implemented and barely-functional
<testuser[m]> If u want features then u gotta give in to the js overlords
<testuser[m]> Gomuks has most stuff including encryption
<midfavila> >js
<testuser[m]> js means element
<midfavila> my desktop flat out can't run JS in any capacity
<midfavila> :v
<testuser[m]> Why
<testuser[m]> How do u login
<midfavila> i just don't use the web beyond plaintext sites any more so I don't really have a full-featured browser any more
<midfavila> and how do I login to matrix, ooor..? if so, I have a client on my phone, but I don't use matrix
<acheam> midfavila: does your uni not require any JS?
<acheam> did you compile palememe without spidermonkey or something?
<testuser[m]> What if u need some info that's not available in plaintext
<midfavila> >thinks I go to an actual university
<midfavila> but to reply seriously to that, I bullied the school into giving me a crappy netbook that I keep airgapped when not in use for class. on my desktop and laptop I use links for interactive HTTP and axel in scripts
<midfavila> re: needing some info that's not available in plaintext, like what?
<acheam> nice
<acheam> does it run windoze?
<midfavila> ...oh, that reminds me, I need to work on my invidious client some more
<midfavila> and no, it's... *shudders* a chromebook
<testuser[m]> Like some sites are js walled and won't load if u don't have js
<testuser[m]> Hmm but therest almost always other sources
<midfavila> then those sites aren't worth visiting
<acheam> whats your invidious client?
<midfavila> it's just a crappy shell script that I wrote in a couple hours one day
<testuser[m]> A shell skript
<midfavila> invcli
<acheam> oh right
<testuser[m]> Check ytfzf
<acheam> I rememeber now
<testuser[m]> It uses invidious api
<acheam> I never got into fzf... just didnt click with me
<testuser[m]> u can change the menu thing
<testuser[m]> to dmenu or whatever
<acheam> oh nice
<midfavila> meh
* acheam just goes to the invious website
<acheam> although I've been playing around with piped recently
<acheam> piped.kavin.rocks
<testuser[m]> but vro js
<acheam> it has built in sponsorblock support which is nice
<midfavila> i'm probably just going to rewrite invcli to accept URLs and dump out the raw stream
<acheam> i mean, its all free js
<acheam> I dont really care
<midfavila> then I can hook it into plumber
<acheam> Not worth my effort any more
<midfavila> but acheam
<midfavila> proprietary JS
<midfavila> le BAD
<acheam> i mean, I prefer not to
<testuser[m]> Why is ewwtube frontpage so horrible
<testuser[m]> I GOT MY BOYFRIEND THE BEST CHRISTMAS PRESENT EVER!! HELLCAT REDEYE
<testuser[m]> Bruh
<acheam> lol
<acheam> it depends on the instance
<testuser[m]> Popular is fine on invidious
<midfavila> puffyan's is usually tolerable
<testuser[m]> Trending is crap
<midfavila> albeit kind of reddit-y
<acheam> better yet
<acheam> ublock the front page
<midfavila> best yet, uninstall all browsers and only use curl
<acheam> eww is nice
<midfavila> i like eww because you can add tags to it
<midfavila> outside of that I still don't like emacs' kitchen sink approach
<testuser[m]> eww what
<midfavila> emacs web wowser
<acheam> M-x eww
<testuser[m]> Wasn't that some rust widget thing
<midfavila> no
<acheam> the emacs web wowser
<midfavila> it's a browser written in elisp
<midfavila> one sec lunch is beeping at me
<testuser[m]> Does it use webshit
<acheam> no its text based
<testuser[m]> Rich
<midfavila> you can embed webkit in emacs if you want though
<midfavila> because of course you can
<acheam> It actually renders pages quite nicely
<midfavila> you motherfucker
<midfavila> you stole my GIF
<testuser[m]> How do images work?
<midfavila> emacs can just render them inline
<midfavila> has support for jpeg, gif, png, svg, etc depending on what elisp you have loaded and what C libraries are available to call into
<testuser[m]> Does it use sixels
<testuser[m]> Or something else
<acheam> emacs has very flexible graphics
<acheam> it can use gtk, multiple xaw implementations, motif, etc
<acheam> I assume each one has its own system for displaying them
<midfavila> emacs' graphics are system independent iirc
<midfavila> the actual GUI toolkit just provides a way for emacs to display stuff - everything is internal
<acheam> ah
<acheam> then nvm
<midfavila> i mean, Xaw and Motif can't even handle SVG normally, let alone PNG and JPEG and whatnot
<midfavila> have you tried out emacs 28 yet?
<acheam> midfavila: yes, I've used it in the past
<acheam> with native comp
<midfavila> was it worth?
<acheam> didn't notice any particular speed ups, and building it was not worth the pain honestly
<acheam> Had to find all the right GCC libs and stuff
<midfavila> rip
<midfavila> i've got everything in my rootfs fork set up in theory, but GCC refuses to compile
<midfavila> the gentoo folks have the same issue so at least it's not a me-thing
<acheam> Although I'm tempted to build a dev version of emacs with pure GTK/wayland support
<acheam> rip
<acheam> gcc refuses to compile, or gcc refuses to compile emacs?
<midfavila> the former
<midfavila> runs into problems with libgccjit
<acheam> wait now Im more confused
<midfavila> libgccjit is part of gcc
<midfavila> and has to be built with it
<midfavila> using --enable-languages=jit
<midfavila> or w/e the flag is
<midfavila> enabling that breaks my build
<acheam> ah
<acheam> and you're enabling that to use gccemacs/native comp?
<midfavila> yes, the design of native comp changed to require JIT support
<acheam> I understand
<acheam> I will say, emacs has been very pleasent to use
<acheam> I've been using it again recently
<acheam> But trying to stick more with the defaults and stuff
<midfavila> emacs is nice, but it doesn't integrate well with my system
<acheam> yeah
<midfavila> rather I have to integrate my system into emacs
<midfavila> hence my comment about preferring acme-style editors, at least in terms of backends
<midfavila> although the combination of emacs, maxima and latex is really cool
<midfavila> set that up the other day
<acheam> maxima?
<midfavila> CAS about as old as emacs
<midfavila> written in common lisp
<midfavila> if you want I have it packaged
<midfavila> it can use emacs as one of its user interfaces, it's a decent enough environment
<midfavila> if you have latex it can autoformat output too
<acheam> nice
<acheam> speaking of ideal environments
<midfavila> yeah. it can even hook into gnuplot and stuff too
<acheam> programming racket and lisp has been awesome in emacs
<midfavila> nice
<midfavila> is it a suitable replacement for drracket?
<midfavila> been thinking of starting to work on HtDP again
<acheam> yes
<acheam> but I was programming racket in vi(1), so anything is good :)
<midfavila> ^imaxima if you wanted to peek
<midfavila> and that's good to hear
<midfavila> compiling racket on its own is enough of a pain without needing to use drracket
<acheam> Yeah just stick to the most minimal install possible
<acheam> You can just install the rest of the bundled stuff with raco anyways
<midfavila> Mm
<midfavila> Kinda wish that HtDP just used a regular Scheme.
<acheam> awww I think hello == kisslinux
<midfavila> well maxima disagrees apparently
<midfavila> do you know if anyone's packaged regular old latex, acheam?
<acheam> mmatongo was working on it
<midfavila> aaah. I'll have to bug them about it some time
<acheam> he doesnt use kiss anymore
<midfavila> oh. rip
<acheam> phoebos is your other resource
<acheam> man its kind of crazy how SSDs have taken over the market
<acheam> you'd be hard pressed to find a laptop or many desktops with HDDs still being sold as their primary drive
<midfavila> that's debatably a bad thing
<acheam> how so?
<midfavila> considering how garbage consumer-grade SSDs are now, in terms of reliability
<midfavila> new bad old good etc
<testuser[m]> What reliability
<acheam> I'd trust a cheap SSD over a cheap hard drive
<midfavila> just don't buy cheap storage devices
* acheam looks down at the 2 cheap SSDs on his desk
<midfavila> besides you can get new old stock enterprise stuff for dirt cheap
<midfavila> picked up a pair of 3TB hitachi hard drives for a hundred bucks a pop, brand new
<testuser[m]> What do you need 3tb for
<testuser[m]> 6*
<midfavila> in theory? virtual machines and stockpiling ISOs
<midfavila> in practice? i have a bad habit of not cleaning my downloads folder
<midfavila> in reality? a little bit of both
<acheam> midfavila: I just bought a brand new toshiba X300 4tb for $100
<acheam> was deciding between that or some old stock enterprise stuff
<acheam> but I didn't really trust any of the sellers not to be selling a used drive with SMART wiped or something
<midfavila> i don't think the average ebay seller knows what that is or how to do that
<acheam> testuser[m]: in my case, we have 1tb of family photos, and I want room to grow. 2tb felt a bit small, and 3tb is a fairly uncommon size
<acheam> the drive I'm replacing though (failing currently) is 3tb though
<acheam> midfavila: i've heard enough stories of it happening not to want to risk it
<acheam> anyways, I got a very good drive at a good price, so I'm not complaining
<acheam> its from RainForest Corp though
<acheam> doesn't Ebay require JS?
<midfavila> yes which is why I use a separate machine for it
<acheam> By the end of this, my computer will have 5.25tb split over 4 drives though, which will be nice
<midfavila> not bad
<midfavila> mine has a total of like, 6.4tb? thereabouts
<acheam> One of the 250gb drives is reserved for windoze though, so really 5tb
<acheam> Besides that, I'll need to figure out how I want to distribute data between the drives
<phoebos> o/
<midfavila> hullo
<phoebos> eww looks quite nice
<phoebos> if i used emacs
<midfavila> eww is comfy
<phoebos> that maxima thing looks a lot nicer than ipython
<midfavila> if I ever write a web browser i'll probably borrow a lot of ideas from it
<midfavila> and maxima is nice, yeah. i've been using it the past few days since regular calculators aren't cutting it any more for some of my exercises
<midfavila> i want to try and integrate it with emacs' built-in calc
<phoebos> s/ipython/isympy/
<phoebos> oh yeah i packaged miktex
<phoebos> it's a nice distribution for end users but there's a lot of crap to get it going
<midfavila> yeah I tried using your miktex package before
<midfavila> but I think I'd rather just a vanilla latex
<phoebos> like texlive?
<midfavila> yeah
<midfavila> pretty sure that's what I have on my box atm
<phoebos> its more common yeah
<midfavila> yeah it's totally what I have on my machine
<midfavila> it works well enough
<midfavila> just use it for resumes and stuff
* midfavila shrugs
<phoebos> just takes like 5GB of disk space
<phoebos> ish
<midfavila> fortunately I have the space to spare :P
<phoebos> :v
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<phoebos> also, because it's the holidays, read a book: https://bvnf.space/books/
<phoebos> on the topic of eww i started using qutebrowser the other day
<phoebos> ew python but it's not too slow actually
<phoebos> tried vimb but it felt a bit, erm, crap
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<phoebos> tfw waiting for it to have been 70 years since pannekoek's death so that workers' councils is public domain and i can put it online
<phoebos> only 8 years to go
<phoebos> oh, midfavila: this seems to be maintained: https://github.com/ehawkvu/kiss-tex
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<midfavila> :o
<midfavila> will potentially have to steal their texlive package then
<midfavila> ugh racket is so fucking slow
<midfavila> just gonna try to use gambit or something ig
<acheam> midfavila: calc-mode is really nice
<acheam> its like an interactive dc with sane defaults
<acheam> also is really easy to jump between calc-mode and buffers and exchange text between them
<acheam> phoebos: nice book project
<acheam> why that translation of the illiad? just because of public domain?
<acheam> Its a shame this ehawkvu guy doesnt come here, he has some cool stuff
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<phoebos> dc is bae
<phoebos> acheam: it was the best one on gutenberg
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<phoebos> i have some nicer physical copies but i haven't found digital versions
<phoebos> do you know any nice translations?
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<midfavila> dc is okay but I haven't found any use for it that bc or expr wouldn't cover tbqh
<acheam> they're analagous programs, mostly just with different input formats
<acheam> I like stacks and prefix notation, so I like dc
<acheam> I like how OpenBSD handles it, bc is just a preprocessor for dc
<acheam> so none of the math code is duplicated
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<akira01> someone can help me with that?
<akira01> error in a glibmm package i tried to build
<phoebos> maybe don't do a parallel build
<phoebos> perhaps that file it's looking for would be created later
<akira01> can i do some meson or ninja config for parallel build?
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<noocsharp> bruh, why does imv require gl