ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | https://kisscommunity.org | post logs or else | "Seek simplicity but distrust it" -- Alfred North Whitehead
illiliti has quit [Quit: leaving]
bibliocar has joined #kisslinux
bibliocar has quit [Client Quit]
akira01 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
<phoebos> ugh why doesn't posix specify TIOCGWINSZ for ioctl(3) :(
<phoebos> sure finding the terminal size is kinda implementation specific but the whole point of posix is to provide a standardized interface to the implementations
<phoebos> but then it requires stuff like ls to adapt their output "to the nature of the output device", "based on the implementation's knowledge of the output device"
<phoebos> just gonna have to hope people set $COLUMNS
<noocsharp> the obvious solution is to not use terminals
<phoebos> otherwise they're getting 80
<phoebos> oh yeah, that must be what they're getting at
<phoebos> MADNESS
bibliocar has joined #kisslinux
<bibliocar> Maybe someone could make a standard other than posix?
<bibliocar> queue xkcd standards comic
<bibliocar> specify UT1 over UTC and eliminate leap seconds once and for all.
<bibliocar> Also, i just learned there are NTP servers for UT1, which means at least I'm happy.
<acheam> just pull a GNU and ignore POSIX
illiliti has joined #kisslinux
<bibliocar> Ignoring at least parts of it seems pretty common nowadays.
<bibliocar> I think it's okay as long as it's well documented, especially when you have lots of little simple components like kiss.
<bibliocar> oh wow
<acheam> even if its in a newer standard of POSIX, whats even the point
<acheam> most systems I've seen only try to conform to 2001 or 2008
<illiliti> just don't care about ancient systems. drop them and move on
<phoebos> illiliti: :D yay
<phoebos> thanks
<illiliti> don't forget to adhere to POSIX as much as possible
<cem> yeah, I totally agree
<phoebos> for tc[gs]etwinsize, just gotta wait 20 years for people to realise POSIX updated :p
<cem> we should try best to be portable, but not with 40 year old systems
<phoebos> the only standard i care about is posix. if your system doesn't work with posix, buy something newer
<cem> the only needed addition to posix is shell local variables :^)
<cem> and like it will never happen, but I still don't know of a shell without local variables
<illiliti> yash in posix mode doesn't support local
<cem> let me fix that statement and say bourne-like shells without local variables currently used
<phoebos> i mean, you can always make more shells: myvar=1; (myvar=2; foo $myvar;) bar $myvar
<cem> illiliti: I thought that it did
<cem> I just tried, it works on yash posix mode
<illiliti> hmm, looks like author added support for it
<illiliti> the last time i tried it didn't
<cem> phoebos: but creating subshells is worse, and not worth it
<cem> ah I see
<cem> most shells do add the support for it, because it's one of the most common mistakes
<phoebos> cem: but if you really want "local" variables, subshells provide the same functionality. kinda. if you use a few `export`s for globals
<cem> even then, I'd argue that locals are very useful, even if not 100% necessary
<illiliti> globals by default is the most annoying thing in shell
<phoebos> but shell was never meant for real programming
<phoebos> just plumbing
<cem> yeah, I get that you can have the same functionality with subshell, but at the end of the day, a subshell is a spawned subprocess
<cem> a local variable is cheap
<cem> subprocesses are not
<phoebos> ofc
<phoebos> i wouldn't genuinely use subshells just to get local variables
<illiliti> cem: yash even accepts typeset in posix mode. something is wrong...
<trunc88> the most
<trunc88> POSIX-compliant shell in the world!
<trunc88> :^)
<illiliti> it was much stricter before
illiliti has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
illiliti_ has joined #kisslinux
<travankor> you start yash with yash -o posixly-correct?
<illiliti_> yep
<illiliti_> yash -o posixlycorrect
<illiliti_> i also tried to run it as sh
<phoebos> spot the patch that's been waiting to be pushed since october: https://git.bvnf.space/bore/
<phoebos> also does anyone know if the struct dirent * returned by readdir(3) should ever be free(3)'d?
<noocsharp> when in doubt, look at the musl source
<phoebos> oh i guess you're not supposed to do anything with the pointer until you're finished reading the dir, and then the pointer will be NULL
<phoebos> :p
<testuser[m]> Hi
illiliti_ has quit [Quit: leaving]
<noocsharp> o/
mahmutov has joined #kisslinux
mahmutov has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<Featyre> The only issue with some POSIX shells I have seen is pressing left and right to make changes but all I got is ^[[A or something
<Featyre> Surprisingly, KISS' POSIX shell doesn't
<testuser[m]> Cuz those shells don't parse escape sequences
<Featyre> Oh
mmatongo has joined #kisslinux
<mmatongo> Hi
<testuser[m]> hi
<mmatongo> Been a min
<testuser[m]> many mins
<mmatongo> Unfortunately I use macOS now as my daily driver cause of work
mmatongo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Featyre> Hi
trunc88 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
rlittl01 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
bibliocar has quit [Quit: GrumpyChat v. 1.0.0. Such client. WOW. Much quit. https://github.com/grumpy-irc/grumpy]
<Featyre> Trying to install xorg is a chore
<Featyre> I'm stuck in this error
<testuser[m]> show
<Featyre> Hold on let me show logs
<Featyre> So it stuck on building libeproxy
<testuser[m]> have u modified the mesa build file
<Featyre> Nope
<testuser[m]> using libglvnd?
<Featyre> Yeah
<testuser[m]> why
<Featyre> libeproxy doesn't detect mesa
<testuser[m]> hmm u dont need libglvnd at all, remove libglvnd, rebuild default mesa and then show the log
<testuser[m]> does it have the same error ?
<testuser[m]> u might have installed mesa, then installed libglvnd and then removed mesa somehow
<testuser[m]> so the alternatives werent swapped
<testuser[m]> but mesa with libglvnd isnt possible unless u alter the build file
<testuser[m]> oh nvm it checks
<testuser[m]> /usr/include/EGL doesn't exist right?
<Featyre> Yep
<testuser[m]> show contents of /var/db/kiss/installed/libglvnd/build and /var/db/kiss/installed/mesa/build and /var/db/kiss/choices
<Featyre> Well I uninstalled libglvnd
<Featyre> Mesa is rebuilding
<testuser[m]> ok
<testuser[m]> nice
<testuser[m]> Done?
<testuser[m]> lol
<Featyre> I think it's fine now, don't know why it didn't detect Mesa the first time but whatever
<Featyre> Wait nvm
humky has joined #kisslinux
dnv has joined #kisslinux
an3223 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
GrumpyUser has joined #kisslinux
GrumpyUser is now known as bibliocar
mahmutov has joined #kisslinux
ella-0 has joined #kisslinux
ella-0_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
dnv has quit [Quit: dnv]
mahmutov_ has joined #kisslinux
mahmutov has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
mahmutov_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
bibliocar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
bibliocar has joined #kisslinux
mahmutov_ has joined #kisslinux
bibliocar has quit [Quit: GrumpyChat v. 1.0.0. Such client. WOW. Much quit. https://github.com/grumpy-irc/grumpy]
akira01 has joined #kisslinux
<akira01> hey guys
<akira01> im little confused
<akira01> whats the package that includes egl?
<akira01> mesa? Or other?
<noocsharp> yes
akira01 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
mahmutov_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
ella-0 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
cem has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
cem has joined #kisslinux