ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | https://kisscommunity.org | post logs or else | "Seek simplicity but distrust it" -- Alfred North Whitehead
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<phinxy>
Looks like firefox is getting built with gcc and g++. Or is it just me?
<phinxy>
I tried to build firefox without clang/llvm but build script would not pass configuration. `ERROR: Could not find clang to generate run bindings for C/C++`
<acheam>
dilyn: whats your work situation? Did you get a new job?
<phinxy>
How much time does the new feature of having a VERSION variable in sources save for the package manager(s?)? I felt that it was cumbersome to instead of simply copying the URL, having to edit it first, when "checking out" the sources.
<acheam>
not very much
<acheam>
its a very controversial feature in this channel
<dilyn>
acheam: I work at canonical now!
<acheam>
I cant tell if you're joking or not
<dilyn>
phinxy: iirc it requires both for *reasons*; mozilla devs are under the impression it builds better and faster with clang
<dilyn>
i am not joking acheam
<dilyn>
I'm in the canonical org on github
<acheam>
hmm cant verify that.... but I believe you
<acheam>
thats cool
<acheam>
whats your role?
<tleydxdy[m]>
oh sweet
<dilyn>
IoT field engineer
<tleydxdy[m]>
* can you tell them to fix the package manager? * XD
<acheam>
nice
<dilyn>
what's wrong with it :o
<dilyn>
I mean, it's complicated certainly
<dilyn>
I'm not the biggest fan of dpkg
<acheam>
you must have had some nice stories to tell in the interview
<dilyn>
but it's functional
<dilyn>
they were very interested in KISS:P
<tleydxdy[m]>
when I was trying to uninstall a version of the kernel
<tleydxdy[m]>
it will want to pull in the same version just "unsigned"
<acheam>
apt-managed kernels can be a pain
<acheam>
dilyn: how long have you been working there?
<tleydxdy[m]>
so I have to specify that on the remove line too
<dilyn>
yeah I mean honestly I would just uninstall the kernel and use my own on any distribution at this point
<dilyn>
since september!
<dilyn>
I feel like we've talked about this before
<acheam>
nope
<acheam>
this is news to me
<dilyn>
ah you weren't here for it
<acheam>
congrats though! Thats a really cool role at an interesting company
<dilyn>
absolutely!:D
<tleydxdy[m]>
also the whole thing about install A, pulls in BCD, apt purge --aauto-remove A, BCD doesn't get removed
<dilyn>
i'm very excited about it
<dilyn>
to be fair tleydxdy, dependencies are hard :v
<tleydxdy[m]>
yeah
<dilyn>
kiss just shits the bed a lot of times on that sort of thing
<acheam>
So are you running lots of Ubuntu boxes now? There must have been a decent learning curve learning a whole new set of IoT software and stuff
<tleydxdy[m]>
I'm trying to learn zig, and I think writing a kiss like package manager may be cool
<tleydxdy[m]>
I wondered how does ubuntu work on IoT
<acheam>
Add it to the list of kiss-compatible package managers :)
<tleydxdy[m]>
it doesn't go very small
<tleydxdy[m]>
I would think something like kiss would fit better tbh
<dilyn>
I just have a laptop running on Kubuntu along with some virtual machines on my desktop that I fire up to build things/test
<acheam>
nice
<acheam>
so what are you actually doing?
<dilyn>
A steep-ish learning curve to get up to speed on Ubuntu Core and that whole suite of things, which is Canonical's IoT offering
<dilyn>
I basically answer technical questions from people internally and externally about Core/snaps/etc, provide training on building snaps, research hardware requirements, etc
<dilyn>
basically everyone called for launchpad to be open-sourced for years and years, and even today there is only one instance of launchpad in the world: ours. Negligible patches have been sent upstream for it
<dilyn>
so ultimately, what's the point of open-sourcing it if 1) nobody is going to use it, 2) there won't be any benefits for any users in the form of patches, and 3) it will cost an exorbitant number of resources?
<noocsharp>
what resources does it cost to open-source something?
<noocsharp>
you just publish the source
<noocsharp>
you don't have to accept contributions
<acheam>
^
<acheam>
thats the same excuse that wolfram alpha uses
<acheam>
it literally just takes a single link to a tarball and a file with some special text in it
<acheam>
the point of open sourcing it is so that users dont have to run nonfree javascript
<acheam>
I wouldnt mind a proprietary backend as long as the frontend is free
<tleydxdy[m]>
everything should be free :)
<dilyn>
i mean i have no idea what work is involved in doing such a thing
<dilyn>
presumably you'd want to clean your code at a minimum before release, so that's paying multiple engineers to do potentially months of refactoring work...
<acheam>
why though
<acheam>
thats not needed
<tleydxdy[m]>
it's expensive if say they have other code they don't want to release as free
<noocsharp>
if you're embarrassed about the state of your bad code, that's your problem
<dilyn>
because then every person who never cared anyways will just add it to their list of reasons to shit on canonical lmao
<tleydxdy[m]>
or they don't own the rights to
<dilyn>
"they can't even right good code look at this spaghetti crap"
<acheam>
they cant even right good english either aparently :)
<dilyn>
I mean yes it should be fixed, but like... that costs money. we're not volunteers xD
<dilyn>
:O
<acheam>
jkjk
<dilyn>
:(
<acheam>
:)
<noocsharp>
sounds like an excuse to write bad code and then hide it from people
<tleydxdy[m]>
let's just say it should have been free before it was even built
<noocsharp>
jesus, how many variations of mips are there
<illiliti>
do it! consider this script as a public domain
<illiliti>
no bullshit nor CLA is required
<illiliti>
i promise :)
<Featyre>
I'm not going to put the repo under copyleft lol
<Featyre>
So it's fine
<Featyre>
And really though, ever since I have down in the hold of Linux minimalism, I think this is the final stop of Linux distro hopping
<Featyre>
hole*
<dilyn>
you could adopt cryptsetup in community xD
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<midfavila>
morning, everyone
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<illiliti>
hi
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<midfavila>
has anyone found a way to get hoc(1) running under KISS?
<testuser[m]>
whats hoc
<testuser[m]>
and where did your laptop go
<midfavila>
the high-order calculator. it's the successor to bc and dc, and is standard under plan 9. i need it because I've started running into the limits of bc and dc
<midfavila>
and laptop is currently in my sidedesk, charging
<midfavila>
i've reorganized my room to be more conducive to my studies, so I can use my desktop instead of my laptop now. it's much nicer
<illiliti>
midfavila-laptop no more?
<Featyre>
Since I have never heard it before, nope
<midfavila>
laptop is just taking a well-deserved break :P
<midfavila>
i guess if need be I can take a crack at modernizing the source code after copying it from my copy of TUPE...
<midfavila>
...actually, I bet plan 9 from user space has it
<midfavila>
worst comes to pass I'll just use Emacs' integrated CAS or try to set up Macsyma
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<Tom10>
I heard somewhere that you can take screenshots using ffmpeg and I've only seen working results using x11grab and maybe kmsgrab. Have anyone managed to get ffmpeg screenshot working with wayland?
<midfavila>
i've never heard of it working under wayland
<midfavila>
i can imagine it would be a massive pain with how stingy wayland is about screen captures though
<Tom10>
Btw, I found an easy way to run x applications on kiss linux incase without xwayland installed on your system, you can do an arch linux chroot with the wayland-1 socket symlinked to the arch chroot and run weston with xwayland on it, image: https://i.postimg.cc/2yKG563H/20211216-12h23m52s-grim.png
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<midfavila>
oh, yeah, I have that on my site, illiliti
<V>
it's the new add-on API that has massive restrictions on content blocking :p
<V>
they tried to neuter uBlock, basically
<acheam>
and they'll be deprecating v2 soon
<V>
indeed
<V>
TL;DR use Firefox
<midfavila>
tl;dr don't use the web
<acheam>
woah midfavila is here
<midfavila>
indeed it is i
<midfavila>
shitposter extraordinaire
<midfavila>
wonder if something akin to invidious could be run over gopher
<testuser[m]>
acheam: v2 extensions will stop being updated in 2022 or they will just reject new entries?
<acheam>
not sure
<acheam>
"Manifest V2 will no longer function as of January 2023"
<acheam>
which is further away than I thought
<acheam>
so you've got a year
<testuser[m]>
Soon
<midfavila>
ngl I can't get why people would choose chromium over something else, short of relying heavily on webapps
<testuser[m]>
midfavila: rn I am using it cuz this dogshit nvidia driver leaks memory all over the place if anything uses hw accel
<testuser[m]>
And chromium software accel is much better
<testuser[m]>
Than ff
<testuser[m]>
and force dark mode is nice
<testuser[m]>
Otherwise ff is better
<midfavila>
that's an interesting circumstance, so I shall allow it
<midfavila>
fwiw you can force dark modes using extensions in most any browser
<testuser[m]>
But its not as good
* midfavila
shrugs
<midfavila>
nuclear take,
<midfavila>
dark themes bad
<midfavila>
no i will not elaborate
<testuser[m]>
Lol
<midfavila>
okay for real though,
<midfavila>
if your workspace is dark enough that light themes hurt your eyes you should a) turn down your backlight and b) turn on some fucking lights
<midfavila>
even just like, a lamp
<testuser[m]>
Dark just looks better
<midfavila>
that's at least a valid take. i can respect aesthetic preference
<midfavila>
but I've run into so many people who are *convinced* that light themes are bad because "reeeeeee my eyes"
<midfavila>
but also, that makes wayland even less relevant to me :v
<midfavila>
as soon as hyperBSD is usable I'm gone
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<bibliocar>
the problem with wayland compositers is that there's no generic 2d api for hardware acceleration
<bibliocar>
looking at wld from velox, they either use the cpu, or have specific drivers for each brand of gpu? At least if I'm reading things right.
<bibliocar>
others use opengles
<bibliocar>
Maybe something could be built on vulkan.
<bibliocar>
aha, firefox uses opengles as well.
<jedavies>
There's a vulkan renderer in wlroots. Haven't tried it though.
<bibliocar>
Except my etnaviv doesn't even support Vulkan. The advantage of opengl ES is at least people use it. You know, I think wld's approach may be the correct one. The "drivers" I mentioned per individual gpu are pretty simple.
<bibliocar>
it's not a driver, just interfacing with a non-generic api
<bibliocar>
sorry, just thinking out loud.
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