<phoebos>
we don't want to let just ANYONE drop shitty community packages
ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: KISS Linux community channel | https://kisscommunity.org | post logs or else
<acheam>
there ya go dylan
<acheam>
they'd have been playing the long con then
<acheam>
all the way back from the libera switch
<acheam>
and they'd have had to prevented you from joining under a different nick
<acheam>
man they really planned this one out
<phoebos>
yeah that's dedication
<phoebos>
gotta drop them packages
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<noocsharp>
my password manager now has a password caching agent
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<acheam>
Woah nicw
<acheam>
When I report a new feature in my software here, its always some tiny little thing. When noocsharp does it its like "I reimplemented gpg-agent" or "I wrote a phone dialer for the pinephone"
<acheam>
Oi git push
<acheam>
Also would you consider adding description files to your repoa
<noocsharp>
pushed and descripted
<noocsharp>
it's way simpler than gpg-agent, just reads a path over a unix socket and writes the password back over that socket
<acheam>
I assume you didn't mean to push argon2/argon2.a?
<dilyn>
is that secure, noocsharp?
<acheam>
would be doubly coolios if you licensed your code :)
<dilyn>
a lot of things can be accomplished by unix sockets so it'll be very cool if it's just basically equivalent to gpg-agent
<acheam>
execvp("bemenu") to get the password doesnt feel super secure
<noocsharp>
how so?
<acheam>
could you be able to read that through /proc?
<noocsharp>
hmm, yeah i should look into that
<acheam>
It also depends on bemenu not being tampered with but thats not a huge risk
<acheam>
Actually it is
<noocsharp>
yeah, i mean i use pinentry-dmenu normally
<acheam>
Given that someone could add another bemenu higher in the path
<noocsharp>
that goes for any pinentry program
<acheam>
Hmm yeah
<acheam>
Best encryption is no encryption because then you eliminate the risk of your encryption program being tampered with
<noocsharp>
dilyn: i don't think sockets leak any data, so i think they're secure
<dilyn>
very cool
<noocsharp>
actually sockets might be the only way to avoid leaking data from npm-core...
<noocsharp>
alternatively i could tell the user that they shouldn't run untrusted programs
<noocsharp>
acheam: how do you store passwords without encryption?
<acheam>
It was a joke
<acheam>
But on paper in a safe is never a bad option
<acheam>
Albeit inconvinient
<noocsharp>
what if the password program runs as a different user
<noocsharp>
then you can't read the /proc entry
<noocsharp>
hmm, i tried catting the output of the fd/1 node in /proc, and it seems that cat can't access the device
<noocsharp>
so not sure whether this means leakage isn't a problem, or i'm misunderstanding
<testuser[m]>
Hi
<noocsharp>
howdy
<testuser[m]>
illiliti do you know of a non-gn ninja file generator ?
<testuser[m]>
I guess it would be easy enough to do with a shell script
<noocsharp>
acheam: i figured out why it doesn't leak. The `npm-core` process writes directly to a socket, which cannot be read from /proc, but a pipe can. Pipes are the normal mechanism used in shell for IPC, so that's why leakage is possible there
<acheam>
Ah cool
<noocsharp>
i was originally using a pipe, but i got rid of it because it didn't seem necessary
<noocsharp>
so it was kind of an accident
<noocsharp>
i've also realized dup2 is the syscall that makes unix go, because it lets you assign whatever fd you want to the standard streams
<noocsharp>
of a child process
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<acheam>
How does that "make Unix go"?
<acheam>
I didn't even know pipes were a thing in c lmao
<noocsharp>
because the unix philosophy says pipe things between programs using standard streams, and dup2 lets you assign an arbitrary data source to these standard streams without the overhead of copying anything
<noocsharp>
tbf i've never used pipes until writing npm
<acheam>
Ah
<GalaxyNova>
what is a privacy respecting VPS provider
<GalaxyNova>
I'm getting sick of godaddy's shenanigans
<omanom>
if i didn't care about federation would you recommend it over synapse?
<testuser[m]>
I used it but it's federation just crapped out (even setup fresh 2-3 times) lol
<testuser[m]>
Yeah i use it for testing my appservice locally, much easier setup than synapse
<omanom>
i have synapse set up but i haven't touched it in like... a year and was considering starting back over from scratch just for my family since hangouts is getting terminated
<omanom>
was also considering xmpp
<testuser[m]>
xmpp is good but i don't think decent clients exist for it on phones atleast
<omanom>
testuser[m] irc is a decent and standardized IM platform. the problem is people want more than just text
<testuser[m]>
Muh rich message content
<micro_O>
(people also like text history)
<omanom>
there are irc servers which provide history playback, and bouncers solve that issue
<micro_O>
also, IM and chat feel different to me
<micro_O>
@omanom yeah, though while 'the unix philosophy' makes for very robust and flexible computer systems, most people want a more integrated bringup
<omanom>
TheInformaticist that github link is Dylan's post explaining the Wayland change
<testuser[m]>
micro_O: what software provides the talk binary
<testuser[m]>
Its specifiers in posix man page
<testuser[m]>
But no utility
<TheInformaticist>
omanom: Thanks.
<acheam>
Inetutils?
<acheam>
Its on openbsd
<TheInformaticist>
I'm Audi. Peace.
<omanom>
bye!
<TheInformaticist>
omamom I'll be back soon.
<TheInformaticist>
Peace.
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<testuser[m]>
Audi ?
<omanom>
"I'm out"
<omanom>
well, play on "I'm outta here!" -> "I'm outtie!" -> "I'm Audi!"
<acheam>
no\
<acheam>
he is the head of marketing for Audi, he represents the brand in its entirety
<micro_O>
I probably shouldnt have used literally the cheapest digitalocean droplet for installing kiss
<testuser[m]>
Why not
<testuser[m]>
It works fine
<testuser[m]>
Unless you expect to build gcc on it
<testuser[m]>
or perl
<testuser[m]>
or python
<micro_O>
lol
<micro_O>
im literally just following the install guide
<acheam>
yeah you might want to setup distcc or just beam up bins you build on your own system
<phoebos[m]>
omanom: prosody
<testuser[m]>
I can send you bins from my server if you want
<testuser[m]>
Totally not backdoored
<micro_O>
well this droplet will be for hosting kiss-community, i'll probably setup a beefier one as a build server
<micro_O>
testuser[m] i'll take you up on that if this resize fails
<micro_O>
at least digital ocean has like 95% of its interface scriptable from a sane single-binary cli
<micro_O>
only limitation i've hit so far is booting into the recovery iso, so i made a feature request for that
<acheam>
an alternative is just not using a cloud provider that requires using the recovery iso to install an OS
<acheam>
(which hopefully also doesn't require you to run nonfree software like DO)
<micro_O>
I think I have only seen one cloud provider that doesn't require going to a website at some point
<testuser[m]>
KISSps when
<micro_O>
at the very least to create an account
<micro_O>
so all of them require running nonfree software
<testuser[m]>
I really hate both the DO and vultr website, so many obnoxious animations page works fast as a snail
<micro_O>
but that provider has limited resources, and it would not be fair for me to use up all the vcpu
<micro_O>
testuser[m] you dont need to use DO website after account creation
<micro_O>
the doctl cli works well
<testuser[m]>
i think vultr has one aswell
<testuser[m]>
I don't need to do tasks often so i just use the site
<testuser[m]>
I only logged in once this month to check bandwidth usage
<acheam>
openbsd.amsterdam doesn't require any javascript at all
<testuser[m]>
I think sdf one also wouldn't
<testuser[m]>
Mid's thingy
<acheam>
yeah
<acheam>
also box.cock.li is somewhat open source
<acheam>
"By contributing to this repo or by using any of the code yourself you agree that traps aren't gay. Any modifications must be done under the same license."
<testuser[m]>
I would just run stuff off of my home pc if the power cuts weren't so bad
<testuser[m]>
And shitty ISPs allowed opening ports
<omanom>
i'm on dsl, that's the only reason why i'm not hosting at home
<acheam>
I like the garunteed uptime that a cloud server offers
<acheam>
and internet speed
<acheam>
4mbps vs 1000
<acheam>
I still run compute-intensive tasks at home though
<acheam>
like search.armaanb.net
<micro_O>
I've got rackspace in a good datacenter here, but im not exposing that to the regular internet. If we do decide to host kiss-community I'd rather that be easily transferable; re-createable.
<acheam>
so what can I do with xmpp
<acheam>
is it better for 1-1 conversations or groups?
<travankor>
groups iirc
<travankor>
micro_O: why not use rackspace as a build server
<acheam>
mailbox.org provides xmpp hosting under your own domain, so might give that a shot
<acheam>
(im already using them for mail)
<travankor>
does it say which xmpp server they use
<acheam>
they mention jabber a lot
<acheam>
but i think they're just using it as a synonym for xmpp
<micro_O>
travankor I might. right now i just have a pi4, i'd need to make a 1/2 or 1u
<travankor>
i would check that it has the baseline xep's that you need
<acheam>
"We at mailbox.org operate our own Jabber server, fitted with SSL/TLS for transport security and state-of-the art feature sets."
<micro_O>
i'm maaybe waiting on some risc-v silicon to make things interesting
<acheam>
oh they have a tor hiden service for it too
<travankor>
BeagleV sounds interesting
<travankor>
for risc-v
<micro_O>
honestly I kinda like the free compute i get from github actions
<micro_O>
(at least for bins)
<micro_O>
ideally, we'd have a few different servers running the same build software for kiss bins, and can compare checksums
<acheam>
that would require fully reproducible builds
<micro_O>
sure
<travankor>
bug dylan to get on it :p
<micro_O>
I think its more tractable for this project than most
<micro_O>
Especially since other projects have done a lot of the work
<micro_O>
(upstreaming makefile environment vars to remove things like timestamps)
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<acheam>
hmm muon can now bootstrap itself
<acheam>
it has a decently complex meson.build, so thats impressive
<acheam>
ooh Muon can also optionally emebed samurai at build-time, so that you don't even need to install a ninja-compatible build
<micro_O>
interesting, /mnt/bin/chroot /mnt didn't work, i had to /mnt/bin/chroot /mnt /bin/busybox sh
<micro_O>
I think the kisslinux /bin/chroot was trying to run /bin/bash, which doesn't exist
<acheam>
it executes $SHELL by default
<acheam>
so if you were chrooting into it from a bash shell, it would try and run bash in the chroot
<micro_O>
ahh, so i will try SHELL=sh /mnt/bin/chroot /mnt
<acheam>
kiss-chroot sets this correctly for you
<micro_O>
it didn't for me
<acheam>
SHELL=/bin/sh
<micro_O>
perfect, thanks
<phoebos[m]>
i think jabber == xmpp
<acheam>
I thought jabber is just the most popular xmpp service?
<noocsharp>
xmpp is rebranded jabber after cisco got the jabber trademark i think
<omanom>
ejabberd is one of the xmpp server implementations
<micro_O>
trying it one more time, once it fails ill write the error here
<micro_O>
yeah super cool, second build worked
<micro_O>
that is...worrisome
<micro_O>
and getting logs is difficult when i am in a vnc connection, since ssh isnt setup yet xD
<testuser[m]>
curl static tmate bin
<testuser[m]>
And connect through it
<testuser[m]>
The old log would've been saved by iiss anyway u can share it
<testuser[m]>
kiss
<micro_O>
cool, i'll try that
<micro_O>
oh yeah, i frgot
<micro_O>
warning: sshd: can't open supervise/ok: No such file or directory
<micro_O>
on `sv up sshd` after `ln -s /etc/sv/sshd /var/service`
<testuser[m]>
/run/runit/sshd.supervise exists
<testuser[m]>
?
<micro_O>
nope
<testuser[m]>
/run/runit exists ?
<testuser[m]>
What does ls -l /etc/sv/sshd/supervise it point to
<micro_O>
it points to /run/runit/sshd.supervise
<micro_O>
yeah runit directory does not exist in /run
<micro_O>
note: this is likely because i have chroot'd
<micro_O>
i guess? so whatever the init scripts are, they didnt run?
<testuser[m]>
Cuz your system isnt booted
<micro_O>
yep
<micro_O>
guess its time to install and boot grub
<micro_O>
30+C and 70% humidity is frying my brain
<micro_O>
and grub build is segfaulting, gonna try make -j1 to see if that fixes it
<testuser[m]>
30c is nothing bruh
<micro_O>
also, with the exception of absolutely extreme temps, its more about relative i.e. 'what temp you grep up in' vs 'what temp you are in now'
<micro_O>
all i know its above 30c
<testuser[m]>
Not as high as 42
<micro_O>
s/grep/grew
<micro_O>
just checked and said 37
<testuser[m]>
Yeah
<micro_O>
+ wet bulb temp
<micro_O>
well, got further than the first time, but not being able to build grub sucks
<micro_O>
42 but 0% humidity might be better than 37 @ 50% humidity
<omanom>
do you have to use grub?
<micro_O>
i guess the 'best' thing to do would be copy over the existing 'recovery partition' grub from host machine and boot into that, then figure it out later
<micro_O>
omanom I *think* i need grub, or at least grub-install
<micro_O>
because its running in some kinda vm
<micro_O>
not sure if hypervisor, qemu, or something else
<omanom>
gotcha. yeah i just stuck with grub when using kiss in virtualbox
<micro_O>
ok so i can get to the default /dev/vda grub install, but it doesnt hit /bin/init yet
<micro_O>
alright, time to take a break
<micro_O>
sr0 is only available partition (hmmm)
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<testuser[m]>
You can just recycle the original grub install and just put youe kernel in their place
ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | https://kisscommunity.org | post logs or else
<acheam>
DYLAN: does that work for you?
<noocsharp>
lmao, does he keep telling you to change the name?
<GalaxyNova>
omanom: green lips
<GalaxyNova>
noocsharp: Dylan said the current name is confusing
<acheam>
noocsharp: see the github link above
<noocsharp>
ah
<noocsharp>
what if the channel moved to #kisscommunity?
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<travankor>
isn't it one n: Unofficial
<GalaxyNova>
moving the channel to #kisscommunity could be good
<GalaxyNova>
we could set up a redirect to redirect #kisslinux to #kisscommunity
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* GalaxyNova
sighs
<GalaxyNova>
update to freetype-harfbuzz broke something with the fonts
<GalaxyNova>
and now foot wont work
<testuser[m]>
Abi break i guess
<testuser[m]>
Just rebuild it's revdepends
<testuser[m]>
To link to new .so
<GalaxyNova>
yep
<GalaxyNova>
fixed it
<GalaxyNova>
that was annoying
<GalaxyNova>
btw what's the difference between sbase and 9base
<micro_O>
interesting, so when i chroot'd myself instead of kiss-chroot, i was able to build and install grub
<micro_O>
probably something with the cflags
<micro_O>
anyway, now i need to figure out if there is a way to set the default init line with grub-mkconfig since it seems to be trying /etc/init.d/rcS
<micro_O>
instead of /sbin/init
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<GalaxyNova>
uh oh
<GalaxyNova>
i...
<GalaxyNova>
i deleted the busybox package
<GalaxyNova>
uh
<GalaxyNova>
how can i get it back?
<GalaxyNova>
I don't have a shell now
<GalaxyNova>
fuck
<phoebos[m]>
chroot into your system from a liveusb and copy a busybox bin from the release tarball
<phoebos[m]>
well, don't chroot in
<phoebos[m]>
just unpack the tar in the mounted root
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<micro_O>
new screenshot from kiss tidbits is neat
<micro_O>
especially the s6-supervise part
<noocsharp>
s6-rc when
<micro_O>
noocsharp its in community but you prolly know that
<noocsharp>
s6-rc 1.0.0.0 when
<soliwilos>
Ooh, Dylan's using the new uevent rebroadcast feature in mdevd master.
<soliwilos>
At least in that screenshot.
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<GalaxyNova>
So I switched to sbase + ubase!
<GalaxyNova>
some annoying things is that it's tar implementation doesn't work with KISS's package manager
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<dilyn>
use libarchive :v
<noocsharp>
today a professor explained to my class how git is github, but on your own computer