#commonlisp on 2025-03-11 — irc logs at libera.irclog.whitequark.org

2022-07-28 16:55 jackdaniel changed the topic of #commonlisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | Wiki: <https://www.cliki.net> | IRC Logs: <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23commonlisp> | Cookbook: <https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook> | Pastebin: <https://plaster.tymoon.eu/>

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08:30 <jackdaniel> behold :) https://mcclim.common-lisp.dev/posts/McCLIM-099-Ostara-release.html

08:30 <ixelp> McCLIM â A powerful GUI toolkit for Common Lisp

08:38 <beach> Congratulations!

08:39 <jackdaniel> thanks!

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11:17 <kvik> i'm reading PCL section about packages. are the java style package names "in style" these days?

11:20 <phoe> some people use them

11:20 <phoe> we use them in keepit in our production code, fwiw

11:20 <phoe> they are not as scary as one might think because of local nicknames though

11:21 <phoe> net.libera.commonlisp.channel:foo is not problematic if it's just irc:foo in most of your code

11:24 <kvik> phoe: that makes sense, thanks

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11:39 <varjag> people use them but they are not particularly idiomatic to lisp i would say

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11:52 <phoe> yes, package naming conflicts are slightly more idiomatic

11:52 <phoe> ...except also troublesome

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12:44 <kvik> are there some well-regarded small to medium sized CL codebases that would be a recommended reading for a relative newcomer to the language? something like Lua for someone learning C.

12:44 <kvik> i'd prefer an application rather than a library, but both goes

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12:45 <beach> kvik: Any preferred application domain?

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12:52 <beach> kvik: Compta is a GUI application for accounting, in case you are interested in that kind of thing: https://github.com/robert-strandh/Compta

12:52 <ixelp> GitHub - robert-strandh/Compta: Primitive accounting system with CLIM GUI.

12:52 <kvik> beach: physical computing of some description would fit my interest the best, but mostly anything will interest me :)

12:53 <beach> I don't know what "physical computing of some description" means.

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12:55 <kvik> beach: sensing and controlling the physical world with computers. think: machines

12:56 <beach> I think I see.

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13:00 <varjag> i do that but it's not public

13:00 <varjag> phoe: how common are package naming conflicts in your experience?

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13:04 <varjag> and i mean if one wants java style qualified packages maybe adopt the dashes instead of the dots as separators

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13:06 <varjag> not that it is important either way, just noting that it does look very java and java somehow looks even more antiquated than common lisp at this point

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13:13 <phoe> varjag: rare enough to not affect me personally; the lisp world is still kinda small and creative names are plentiful

13:13 <phoe> also dashes are problematic because they already work as space substitutes

13:13 <phoe> is FOO-BAR-BAZ supposed to be read as "Foo Bar Baz" or as "foo.bar.baz"?

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13:22 <pve> I think I had a clash once with "UTIL", or some other similar short nickname.

13:23 <varjag> but that's a nickname

13:23 <varjag> you need nicknames less often if full name is tolarable :p

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13:24 <varjag> phoe has a point about the community size naturally

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13:26 <beach> Local nicknames are the solution though, as phoe pointed out.

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13:31 <pve> I remember pondering if there was some established practice of dealing with this minor annoyance, other than manually renaming packages as needed. This was before package local nicknames.

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14:21 <phoe> there's none, other than manual renaming of packages, which is a major PITA because packages in your code no longer match packages in your memory

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23:49 <screwlisp> Lispy gopher climate in 10. (Or northernlights' excellent show aforehand). I'm fasting for some medical thing so a low energy episode. I'll mention noted lisper chaitan as part of some long-winded commentary on the future of programming, also breaking undercover journalism of the nz/uk/us ai policy in pratice. https://anonradio.net:8443/anonradio

23:52 <screwlisp> Also I received a correction about Douglas Adams' scifi comedy movie pitch rejection that happened pre-men-in-black.

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