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<jA_cOp>
Using SBCL/SLY/Emacs, how can I change a defconstant to defparameter during development? When compiling, I get "Cannot proclaim a CONSTANT variable SPECIAL" which makes sense, but I don't want to have to restart sly or whatever would be necessary to "reset"
<TMA>
jA_cOp: you can unintern the symbol and defparameter it afterwards under a same-name symbol which would not be EQ to it
<TMA>
it would be the lisp that would need to be restarted. However anything that refers to the old symbol will continue to do so
<TMA>
so that would need to be reloaded as well
<jA_cOp>
Perfect, unintern + recompile worked great! :) Yeah, the caveats make sense. Thanks!
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<Guest56>
How standard is #\Nul (i.e. char-code 0) as a way to mark ignored character in strings? I tested `(let ((str (subseq "Hi" 0))) (setf (char str 0) #\Nul (char str 1) #\Nul) str)` in sbcl and clisp, and they both return "", which seems to behave like "" when printed. On the other hand, (length str) is still 2, and (string-equal "" str) is... NIL. Is
<Guest56>
this behavior something that can be relied on between different implementations?
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<jA_cOp>
What's a good way to convert a number to floating point when optimizing with SBCL? I found sb-kernel:make-single-float but it doesn't seem to do what I thought. Should I be using coerce?
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<beach>
Guest56: There is no way to "mark ignored characters".
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<beach>
jA_cOp: There is the standard function FLOAT.
<beach>
jA_cOp: What does it mean to be "optimizing with SBCL"?
<jA_cOp>
Thanks both, the float function worked! beach: just that I'm doing (declaim (optimize (speed 3))) and working through the notes, mostly as a learning exercise (I haven't actually profiled performance, nor does this code actually need to run fast)
<jA_cOp>
I was a bit confused because I thought "float" was a type specifier
<beach>
I see.
<beach>
It is that too.
<jA_cOp>
Oh, of course - because of separate namespaces for functions?
<beach>
Common Lisp has several namespaces, functions, variables, method combinations, and more.
<beach>
And, yes, types.
<jA_cOp>
ah ok - I thought maybe there were just two namespaces, but it sounds like I need to do some more reading up on CL's namespaces. Thanks for the info!
<beach>
Sure. Anybody can make up a new namespace by using symbols as keys in a hash table (for instance).
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<beach>
Another standard namespace is that for restarts.
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<kanuba>
beach: You can check out PAIMP pp. 836 for more
<kanuba>
Norvig recognizes at least 7 (built-in) namespaces
<beach>
I see.
<beach>
What is PAIMP?
<kanuba>
Sorry, PAIP. Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence
<beach>
Oh, OK. Yes, I see. Thanks. I am not the one who needs to know, though. :)
<kanuba>
I know. For whoever then: functions (shared with macro functions), variables, special variables, types, tagbody labels, blocks, and symbols within a quoted expression
<beach>
Excellent!
<beach>
No mention of method combinations though.
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<beach>
PAIP is not much into CLOS, perhaps.
<kanuba>
I don't recall the date of the book. Could it be before CLOS was widely used or during standard finalization?
<beach>
About the same time I think.
<beach>
1992
<kanuba>
Typical for that time then :)
<scymtym>
declaration identifiers should be another one
<beach>
Right.
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<jackdaniel>
symbol macros, class names, packages
<jackdaniel>
SETF expansions
<jackdaniel>
there are many more probably
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<kanuba>
I wonder if local function definitions could be considered separate from global, since they can be referenced differently.
<kanuba>
s/defintions/names/
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<beach>
In what way can they be referenced differently?
<kanuba>
I'm talking about the difference between funcall'ing a symbol from the toplevel function namespace vs referring to the lexical function with sharpsign-quote, when you need to.
<Shinmera>
I crunched the numbers recently and it looks like 6% of the projects in Quicklisp are mine, and 20% of systems in Quicklisp depend on one of my projects in some form.
<Shinmera>
Makes me worried about what would happen if I should ever dip out for one reason or another.
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<beach>
If the code is properly documented, it would perhaps be possible for someone else to take over the maintenance.
<Shinmera>
My experience with that is that nobody wants to do anything :)
<Shinmera>
And even should I die nothing will happen until things start to break in big ways.
<jackdaniel>
all that is left to us is to pray for your good health
* jackdaniel
starts chanting
<Shinmera>
I feel the power in me rising already
<beach>
True, as long as things work, nobody will budge.
<kanuba>
borodust has went missing for close to 2 years, and his projects all depend on his defunct domain name.
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<jackdaniel>
I don't know how that works percentage wise, but my only project "translate" has one dependency "djula-translate" so that's nice
<jackdaniel>
only djula community would be in panic had I abandoned the project (last updated 2018:)
<kanuba>
As long as a developer's code is out there and documented (or someone is willing to spend the time learning it), I would be more worried about the single point of failure that is the main quicklisp dist, given the time/and custom tooling resources involved for Xach to maintain it.
<Shinmera>
Yea, I've been working on lessening that on and off the past two years, but I am also strapped for time :)
<kanuba>
(mostly because the tooling and knowledge for maintaining it in the way that it is are not public)
<Shinmera>
yeah, that's the difference. Redist is public and documented.
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<Shinmera>
I want to publish two dists -- one that is a mirror of official ql, and "quickerdist". Same set of projects, but releasing once a month without regard for "consistency" which is what holds up mainline releases.
<Shinmera>
It's almost there, just needs more testing.
<kanuba>
The last time I checked the other big dist (I forget the name) was a security nightmare, allowing users to override main dist names, and other things of that nature.
<Shinmera>
"ultralisp"?
<kanuba>
Yes, that.
<Shinmera>
yea I don't like that much since it immediately pulls from git. I frequently push things that aren't consistent, so....
<kanuba>
a project such as alexandria could be uploaded there (at least in the past), and there is no (good) way for a user to specify which dist which package should come from.
<kanuba>
package -> system
<Shinmera>
yea, not having per project sourcing is a flaw in the ql client I think.
<kanuba>
Also assuming both dists are registered
<Shinmera>
you can only prefer a whole dist over the other, which I guess makes sense with the ideal version of quicklisp's model
<Shinmera>
but in practise it just doesn't work like that
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<mwnaylor>
elisp has the `fset' function, which binds a lambda to a symbol, allowing the symbol to be used to call a function (foo ...) withouth having to go through (funcall foo ...). Does Common Lisp have a similar function or macro?
<mwnaylor>
s/withouth/without/
<beach>
mwnaylor: There is no such thing as "a lambda"; only functions that may be anonymous or not. The function (SETF FDEFINITION) allows you to do that for a globally defined name.
<Shinmera>
you can (flet ((foo (&rest args) (apply foo args))) ...)
<kanuba>
#'(setf fdefinition) may be what you're looking for
<kanuba>
Ah, too late
<beach>
mwnaylor: In this example #'1+ evaluates to a function, but so does (lambda ...), so the fact that 1+ is not an anonymous function is not a problem.
<mwnaylor>
Yes, setf & fdefinition works, but seems like extra boilerplate.
<mwnaylor>
I was not aware of fdefinition, so that's a great tip.
<beach>
Yes, the omission of FSET is a major flaw in the Common Lisp specification. It needs to be totally rewritten.
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<edgar-rft`>
mwnaylor: an 1:1 elisp fset replacement in Common Lisp would be (setf (symbol-function 'hello) (lambda (x) (1+ x)))
<gilberth>
You misspelled PUTD.
<beach>
edgar-rft`: I consider SYMBOL-FUNCTION obsolete and always use FDEFINITION instead.
<beach>
edgar-rft`: Plus mwnaylor already told us that this solution "seems like extra boilierplate".
<edgar-rft`>
beach: I know it's whacky code but mwnaylor asked for it
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<beach>
Of course, writing FSET would take way less time that this entire discussion.
<mwnaylor>
It's just that I know more elisp than common lisp. The two are so similar that the differences surprise me.
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<beach>
Sure, but "that's a surprising difference" is different from "seems like extra boilerplate".
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<|3b|>
well, (setf symbol-function) works in elisp too, if you want something that matches :)
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<jackdaniel>
setf functions were added to be able to write :accessor foo, as and afterthought
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<beach>
jackdaniel: Where did you find that information?
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<jackdaniel>
I'll try to look it up tomorrow. probably one of issues in the standard
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<beach>
What is PitchHut and why would they want to have a page on SICL?
<|3b|>
probably a spammer, and because they don't care specifically what they are doing as long as it either gets them money or something they can turn into money (like free advertising, increased "user" count, or whatever)
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<beach>
They made some effort to understand what the project is about, or at least I think so, because they use words that I believe aren't mine.
<|3b|>
"ai" makes that sort of effort cheap these days :/
<beach>
True.
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