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<puchacz>
hi, I have never understood the challenges of integration with native software, either Lisp calling into native, or preparing Lisp functions to be called from native. I see people mention things like only one side should touch system resources like printing to terminal. I don't know C either, but before I start seriously digging into it, I would
<puchacz>
like to understand conceptually these challenges. what should I read please?
<puchacz>
for example it feels like building a postgres plugin with Lisp could be useful, but I don't think anybody did, so it is probably complex.
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<beach>
When it comes to calling Common Lisp code from something like C, there is a big problem in that Common Lisp code can't function without the entire Common Lisp system being present, because of things like the garbage collector, and the Common Lisp compiler needing to be present.
<puchacz>
is this only the problem of deliverable library size?
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<beach>
Well, in general, you can't link an entire Common Lisp system with some C application.
<puchacz>
I think you mentioned once in the context of "sbcl librarian" being used with java jni, that one needs to be careful about "who holds the keys to system resources". so it would be something in line with my first question now.
<beach>
Calling C from Common Lisp is quite common, though, using some foreign-function interface.
<puchacz>
yes, e.g. sqlite. but with things like postgres or java jni it would have to be callable both ways.
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<beach>
If by "you" in "I think you mentioned once", you mean me, that can't be possible.
<puchacz>
okay, I meant you beach - then I must be mis-remembering, no worries.
<puchacz>
so to understand the situation better, should I just start a C programming book and things will become clearer for me?
<puchacz>
I feel the challenges are not really about C programming.
<beach>
It is always good to learn a new language, and C is everywhere. But I am not sure things will become clearer that way.
<puchacz>
exactly
<puchacz>
there are ECL and Clasp, perhaps I should study them?
<puchacz>
and bump into problems as I go along
<beach>
Well, I don't think I know of a case where the main application is written in some other language, and that application calls Common Lisp code, but maybe that exists.
<beach>
I guess you can get away with it if you use a wire protocol for communication between the two.
<puchacz>
there is functioning java jni in lispworks, but (1) java adds a lot of challenges on its own I think and (2) it is not open source.
<puchacz>
and yes, wire protocol always works.
<beach>
But isn't that a case where LispWorks calls Java?
<puchacz>
must be both ways. otherwise it will not be useful in android
<puchacz>
and they sell licenses for android runtime.
<beach>
I see.
<puchacz>
I actually recall that there is sbcl <-> python cl4py relatively recent, work in progrsss, native system. perhaps I should look there.