#commonlisp on 2025-03-03 — irc logs at libera.irclog.whitequark.org

2022-07-28 16:55 jackdaniel changed the topic of #commonlisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | Wiki: <https://www.cliki.net> | IRC Logs: <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23commonlisp> | Cookbook: <https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook> | Pastebin: <https://plaster.tymoon.eu/>

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02:45 <RavenJoad> Can a defclass's slot's :initform take a make-instance form? (defclass example ((foo :reader foo :initarg foo :initform '()))) works, but :initform (make-instance 'thing) does not.

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03:29 <beach> RavenJoad: :initform can be any form.

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03:31 <beach> ,(defclass foo () ()) ,(defclass bar () ((baz :initform (make-instance 'foo)))))

03:31 <ixelp> (defclass foo () ()) => #<STANDARD-CLASS FOO>, while (defclass bar () ((baz :initform (make-instance 'foo)))) => #<STANDARD-CLASS BAR>

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03:34 <RavenJoad> beach: That's what I figured from the documentation I read, but if I do :initform (make-instance 'example :example-arg (quick-xform "fun")), where SBCL says "Control stack exhausted while pseudo-atomic".

03:35 <beach> That would depend on what happens when the class EXAMPLE is instantiated.

03:35 <beach> Clearly, if that INITFORM is for the class EXAMPLE, you have an infinite recursion.

03:36 <beach> ... or if QUICK-XFORM does an infinite recursion.

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03:36 <beach> So you can put any form there, but if the form does something wrong, obviously it won't work.

03:37 <RavenJoad> Agreed. But these are two separate classes. (defclass user ((slot-example :initform (make-instance 'example :example-arg (quick-xform "fun"))))). quick-xform is just a cl-ppcre call to replace some characters.

03:38 <beach> RavenJoad: I can't tell from that information what is wrong, but I can assure you that you can put any form in the :INITFORM. You need to study the backtrace to figure out why the computation in infinite.

03:39 <RavenJoad> That's the thing. There is no backtrace (beyond the file that fails to compile). I just get "CORRUPTION WARNING", "Memory fault at 0xff...6", unhandled memory fault.

03:39 <beach> Step one might be to evaluate that form separately an not as an INITFORM.

03:40 <RavenJoad> I can evaluate that form just fine in Sly/Emacs. It produces a valid (and different) class instance each time

03:41 <beach> An unhandled memory fault means either that your Common Lisp implementation has a defect, or that you (or one of the libraries you use) use foreign code that is buggy.

03:41 <RavenJoad> This is meant to be a well-known default value that I can use if the user does not provide one at initialization-time.

03:42 <RavenJoad> I mean, SBCL could definitely have a bug too, but that would be surprising.

03:43 <beach> It has bugs, but you are right, that's not the first thing to look for.

03:44 <mange> The initform gets evaluated for each instance of your class, so if you're wanting a single example instance as the default value for all instances of your class then I don't think you can use (make-instance 'example) as the :initform

03:46 <RavenJoad> I don't need all initialized classes having the same default value (by address/object) for this slot, just that it has a well-known :example-arg value.

03:47 <RavenJoad> Removing the quick-xform call shows that (make-instance 'example ...) is infinitely recursing for some reason (900+ calls to (make-instance 'example ...)).

03:48 <beach> RavenJoad: Does that happen in a fresh image too? You may have defined the EXAMPLE class incorrectly.

03:48 <RavenJoad> Yes. Each run is happening from a "make check" invocation I have that starts a new SBCL instance.

03:48 <RavenJoad> Unless a cache is reused for some reason.

03:49 <beach> The cache is used if the file containing the class definition has not changed.

03:50 <beach> But more likely, you have some method on INITIALIZE-INSTANCE or something similar that causes an infinite recursion.

03:50 <beach> ... or indeed an :INITFORM that does that.

03:51 <beach> RavenJoad: Wait... you said you evaluated the form as a form outside :INITFORM and there was no problem. But now there is?

03:52 <RavenJoad> Correct. If I evaluate (make-instance 'example :example-arg "example") in Sly (my REPL interface), then it is fine. I get a new object each time. I only get this error when it is in the slot's :initform.

03:54 <beach> My guess, then, would be that the creation of an instance of EXAMPLE creates an instance of the class that contains the creation of EXAMPLE as an initform.

03:54 <mange> Seeing some code would really help to debug this. :)

03:54 <RavenJoad> There is one thing I have not mentioned here, the :example-arg I create is a subclass of the top-level class.

03:55 <RavenJoad> mange: I can push some in a minute. The branch is super messy though. I'm changing the whole backend of the compiler right now.

03:55 <beach> That sounds like exactly what I said.

03:56 <beach> RavenJoad: We have no idea what your top-level class is, because you haven't told us.

03:56 <mange> So, wait, your (make-instance 'example) will implicitly use the initform (through the parent class)?

03:57 <beach> RavenJoad: the INITFORM is evaluated when a subclass is created as well, unless it is overridden.

03:57 <RavenJoad> Fair enough. https://github.com/Chil-HW/chil/blob/957dc4bb012c4530f2f8c8bd5622548845414075/source/backends/verilog.lisp#L97-L108

03:57 <ixelp> chil/source/backends/verilog.lisp at 957dc4bb012c4530f2f8c8bd5622548845414075 · Chil-HW/chil

03:58 <RavenJoad> In this case, verilog-module is the top-level class. It uses a verilog-net as its body. But for codegen-inheritance reasons (which may be poorly chosen coming from other OOP paradigms), verilog-net subclasses verilog-module.

03:58 <beach> Then that's precisely what I guessed.

03:59 <RavenJoad> So an infinite mutual recursion on instantiation? I'll have to figure out how (if) I can break that.

03:59 <mange> The child class can override the initform, I believe.

03:59 <beach> In the :INITFORM you create a subclass of the class that contains the :INITFORM.

03:59 <beach> mange: That is what I said.

04:01 <RavenJoad> My verilog-net class does not have a "body" slot (nor should it (at least for now)), which it would get by inheriting from the verilog-module class. So can I remove it?

04:01 <beach> You can't remove a slot in a subclass.

04:02 <RavenJoad> Yeah, that's what I figured. I probably need to rework the inheritance here a bit.

04:02 <beach> That would be contrary to the Liskov Substitution Principle.

04:03 <beach> But, as was pointed out three times, you can override the :INITFORM in a subclass.

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04:07 <RavenJoad> beach: Could you point me to a tiny example of that? I understand what you're saying but not quit ehow to implement it.

04:08 <beach> ,(defclass foo ((bar :initform (lsjflskdj)))) ,(defclass baz (foo) ((bar :initform 234))) ,(make-instance 'baz)

04:08 <ixelp> (defclass foo ((bar :ini[...]) ERROR: (FOO ((BAR :INITFORM (LSJFLSKDJ)))) can't be destructured against the lambda list (CLASS-NAME CCL::SUPERCLASSES CCL::SLOTS &REST CCL::CLASS-OPTIONS), because it does not contain at least 3 elements. and (defclass baz (foo) (([...]) => #<STANDARD-CLASS BAZ> finally (make-insta[...]) ERROR: Class #<STANDARD-CLASS BAZ> can't be finalized because superclass FOO is not defined yet

04:09 <beach> I don't know what that means. But the example shows how to override the slot.

04:10 <mange> Your first defclass is missing a () after the class name, and those are the errors. Doesn't obscure the example, though.

04:10 <beach> ,(defclass foo () ((bar :initform (lsjflskdj)))) ,(defclass baz (foo) ((bar :initform 234))) ,(make-instance 'baz)

04:10 <ixelp> (defclass foo () ((bar :initform (lsjflskdj)))) ;Compiler warnings : ↩ ; In an anonymous lambda form: Undefined function LSJFLSKDJ ↩ => #<STANDARD-CLASS FOO> and (defclass baz (foo) ((bar :initform 234))) => #<STANDARD-CLASS BAZ> finally (make-instance 'baz) => #<BAZ #x144C012E>

04:10 <beach> mange: Yes, thank you!

04:11 <RavenJoad> Ahh. Ok. So just inside the subclass, set the recursive slot to some value to break the recursion is what it looks like.

04:11 <beach> RavenJoad: As you can see, (lsjflskdj) was never evaluated.

04:15 <RavenJoad> Right. So I modified my stuff accordingly (https://github.com/Chil-HW/chil/blob/edbf4f9d2f1411bf09c107971472cf7de2e2d62b/source/backends/verilog.lisp#L61-L64) and it goes through compilation and unit testing without that recursion error.

04:15 <ixelp> chil/source/backends/verilog.lisp at edbf4f9d2f1411bf09c107971472cf7de2e2d62b · Chil-HW/chil

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04:19 <beach> RavenJoad: Top-level comments take three (or four) semicolons.

04:20 <beach> RavenJoad: And you are wasting precious vertical space by having more than one blank line between top-level forms.

04:21 <RavenJoad> Yeah, I know. The extra blank lines are an accident. I'm not even following the style guide I say I should use. But this branch is a fixable one right now. I've completely rewritten the backend I used to have, so I am still in a tinkering phase before polishing.

04:22 <beach> So are you satisfied with the answer(s) to your issue?

04:22 <RavenJoad> Yes. That answer was exactly what I needed to solve this issue. I may rework the class hierarchy again, but that is a later issue.

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04:27 <beach> mange: Thanks for you help.

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04:28 <RavenJoad> beach: mange: Thank you both for your help. I'm going to call it a night on this project.

04:28 <beach> Good luck!

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