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<jackdaniel>
the specification of the "interactive stream" is terrible
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<mgl>
Is it true that every atomic type specifier (a single symbol) that's not a derived type (not from DEFTYPE) has a corresponding class with the exception of the type NIL?
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<beach>
By "corresponding", do you mean with the same name?
<mgl>
yes
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<gilberth>
,(find-class 'atom)
<ixelp>
(find-class 'atom) ERROR: Class named ATOM not found.
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<beach>
Ah, nice example.
<beach>
No, wait, ATOM is a derived type, no?
<beach>
It is (NOT CONS).
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<beach>
mgl: Well, I think that has to be true.
<Alfr>
Depends how someone reads "is equivalent to".
<gilberth>
ATOM is listed in table 4-2.
<Alfr>
Otoh, ATOM is one of those standardized atomic type specifiers.
<beach>
But the dictionary entry for ATOM says that it is equivalent to (NOT CONS).
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<beach>
mgl: You can define "derived type" as one that does not have a corresponding class.
<beach>
mgl: Since we don't have a TYPEXPAND operator, it is not possible to determine whether a type was defined using DEFTYPE or whether it is treated specially by the compiler. So the definition of "derived type" is not obvious.
<mgl>
Defining derived type in terms of type expansion: (sb-ext:typexpand 'atom) => ATOM, NIL.
<mgl>
yes
<beach>
mgl: But that's just one Common Lisp implementation.
<mgl>
Sure. My point is similar to yours: we need TYPEXPAND to define derived type in a useful way.
<gilberth>
Yes, and unfortunately there's no ANSI-CL way to expand a type. That SB-EXT:TYPEEXPAND might reveal some implementation detail.
<beach>
mgl: I think that's true, yes.
<gilberth>
And while we're at it: There is also some means missing to ask whether some symbol names a type at all. In a given environment.
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<mgl>
KLUDGE: I invoke TYPEP and check for failure to see if a type specifier is valid globally.
<gilberth>
mgl: Your CL might as well go and make you a coffee.
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<mgl>
That would be a welcome side effect if it happens before 3pm.
<gilberth>
But TYPEP takes an environment argument. Which is odd. How can you test for something being of some type if whatever is behind it isn't loaded yet?
<mgl>
Back to the original question, I was hoping that with a type expander one could express any type as basically AND/OR/NOT involving only classes so that I can check whether two types intersect by walking the inheritance graph.
<gilberth>
But for SATISFIES that should work, yes.
<gilberth>
But wait! Only classes? You still might want to deal with things like (INTEGER 0 100) or (CONS KEYWORD NULL).
<jackdaniel>
there are 5 tyoe kingdoms recognized in Baker paper
<jackdaniel>
type
<mgl>
gilberth: I can afford to be somewhat conservative and replace those with INTEGER and CONS.
<mgl>
On SBCL, these are the atomic type specifier with no expansion and no class: (ALIEN NIL EXTENDED-CHAR COMPILED-FUNCTION STANDARD-CHAR BASE-CHAR KEYWORD BIT SHORT-FLOAT LONG-FLOAT ATOM SB-KERNEL:CHARACTER-SET SB-KERNEL:INSTANCE SB-KERNEL:FUNCALLABLE-INSTANCE SB-KERNEL:FUNCTION-DESIGNATOR SB-KERNEL:EXTENDED-SEQUENCE)
<beach>
mgl: If you define "derived type" as I suggested, your definition will depend on the Common Lisp implementation.
<beach>
mgl: So it is best to keep the definition one way: An atomic type specifier that does not have a corresponding class is a derived type specifier (but there can be derived type specifiers that do have corresponding classes).
<jackdaniel>
(subset lisp-types all-types) ; checks out
<beach>
mgl: You may want to consider the ctype library that implements TYPEP and SUBTYPEP.
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<mgl>
beach: Right, for some types, whether it is derived would be implementation specific, so in the context of the CL spec that's fine.
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<mgl>
beach: Can I use ctype to intersect types reliably?
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<beach>
Yes.
<beach>
bike wrote the ctype library, and I use it in SICL as the native implementation of TYPEP and SUBTYPEP.
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<beach>
I must remember to list it in my planned lightning talk.
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