sorear changed the topic of #riscv to: RISC-V instruction set architecture | https://riscv.org | Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/riscv | Matrix: #riscv:catircservices.org
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<xypron> Both eMMC and SD card are scanned. The .itb must be on partition 2. See configuration.
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<xypron> drewfustini: Do you have eMMC installed?
<xypron> drewfustini: Which version of U-Boot are you using?
<xypron> We have a preinstalled image if you want to run from SD card. The installer is meant for installation on a different block device. It cannot install to the boot medium.
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<xypron> I have updated the wiki to use 'load mmc 1:1' in the instructions.
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<yae> What are ways a newbie programmer can contribute/get familiar with the RISCV architecture and ecosystem?
<muurkha> programming
<muurkha> sorry, I shouldn't say anything on this topic.
<yae> what?
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<muurkha> I mean I don't know very much about teaching, and I don't remember what it's like to be a newbie programmer.
<gurki> yae: getting some code to run in a simulator (such as eg spike) should already cover a bunch of things
<gurki> bonus points if you get the debugger to work :)
<gurki> have a look at the asm output, compare it with the asm output of plain x86 gcc
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<[exa]> yae: tbh, try to get some of your stuff running on any riscv hardware/vms, and if it doesn't work, writing a small fix or just reasonable bugreport helps a lot
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<rbmarliere> yae: theres some good free resources in eDX from the linux foundation
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<chripo> +2
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<drewfustini> xypron: thanks for information. Those are good questions. The U-Boot was the most recent from Starfive. I'll check about the emmc. I'm getting the board today from my friend so I can try it myself.
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<xypron> drewfustini: Debian already has a package u-boot-starfive in experimental. We should soon see it in Ubuntu Noble 24.04.
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<courmisch> how does that even work? does it come with a custom SPL that needs to be manually flashing to SPI?
<mps> courmisch: sorry to jumping in but I made this https://arvanta.net/alpine/u-boot-visionfive2-alpine/
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<courmisch> mps: so the answer is yes, it needs manual SPI flashing
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<mps> yes, I did it many times when tested mainline u-boot with visionfive v2
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<courmisch> it feels like a case of cart before horse to provide u-boot before the kernel
<courmisch> at least I can't see a starfive kernel in current Debian
<bjdooks> work just got a milkv
<courmisch> or did they patch the main kernel image to support VF2?
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<cousteau> Hi, is there any website that compares benchmarks of different processors? Some googling only yielded a site that compares an obscure PassMark benchmark which I have never heard of before
<cousteau> Seems spammy
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<sorear> depends on the benchmark i think
<cousteau> Well yeah, at this point I'd be happy with "a benchmark"
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<cousteau> Thanks! Does that include RISC-V processors?
<cousteau> Will have a look tomorrow
<sorear> no, and only a couple of arm
<sorear> the official CoreMark page has submissions from Andes and StarFive
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<palmer> courmisch: looks like there's some Phoronix results for RISC-V processors, though I don't really put much stock in Phoronix... https://openbenchmarking.org/result/2206040-NE-RISCVSIFI55
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<palmer> (oops, that was four cousteau
<Tenkawa> palmer: too bad any gpus are still light years behind
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<palmer> if I'm reading those Phoronix numbers right, CPUs are light years behind as well ;)
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<cousteau> palmer: thanks!
<Tenkawa> palmer: I'm not too disappointed yet... when the RPI soc started out the cpu was nominal
<Tenkawa> but it accelerated quickly
<Tenkawa> but it did have major backing
<cousteau> sorear: yeah I did find the ones at CoreMark once I remembered the website. Not much there though
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<cousteau> One thing I considered was making some sort of framework for doing these comparisons theoretically
<cousteau> Like, get the RTL of example implementations of both an ARM and a RISC-V, synthesize them into a netlist, and calculate the approx area (resources) and max frequency (logic levels)
<cousteau> Then use cycle-accurate simulations to run a benchmark
<gurki> synthesized netlists might bot relate well enough to chip area
<gurki> they are more of a ballpark
<gurki> not*
<cousteau> Energy consumption might be interesting too but harder to figure out, maybe too hard
<gurki> youd also typically provide that timing info to the tool and itll try to make it happen
<cousteau> Wouldn't that only matter when routing, mostly?
<gurki> routing might require more additions
<gurki> but its already quite relevant for synthesis
<gurki> you can save area if you give slack on timings
<cousteau> I don't think I'll consider routing at all in this idea of mine...
<gurki> itll also strongly depend on the pdk :3
<gurki> your idea requires a fair share of tinkering
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<cousteau> gurki: for example? One thing I did think of is that if cell A connects to cells B and C, but B is far away in this direction and C is far away in that direction, it may make sense to duplicate the path, adding redundant duplicate logic just to split the path into two
<cousteau> But that only makes sense when placing
<cousteau> Also... my ASIC fu(*) is a bit rusty, but aren't timing constraints only used AFTER synthesis (RTL to netlist)?
<gurki> depending on how fast your alu is supposed to be youll need a different level of sophistication in your adder trees
<gurki> even more so for division
* cousteau (*) I touched Cadence tools ONCE, like 2 years ago, and have forgotten pretty much all of it, which was very little to begin with
<cousteau> Fair enough
<gurki> youll provide timings to both the synthesis and the pnr tool
<cousteau> Just today I've been trying to figure out how to optimize an adder
<gurki> heh :)
<gurki> the stuff eg dc shell does is pretty mindblowing
<cousteau> Yeah that doesn't happen with FPGAs, which are more like my field
<cousteau> Or not enough to be necessary, at least
<gurki> im more of an asic person bud id expect them to do similar magic
<gurki> its obv more limited
<gurki> you cant just place that magic dw block
<cousteau> But... I think my idea for estimating number of logic levels can give a good approximation
<cousteau> Or just speed directly
<cousteau> At least for a comparison between two platforms
<cousteau> For example, some Core-V cores and, uh, an ARMv2 which if I recall correctly was the last one with a disclosed source [verification needed]
<gurki> you can get access to a lot of these with appropriate ndas
<gurki> youll need good reasons though
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<cousteau> Is "I want to prove that your shitty commercial closed-source core sucks and that RISC-V is way better" a good reason? :) yeah I didn't think so either
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* cousteau tries to think of a list of freely available cores for his possible test... In addition to RV and OpenSPARC, I just found out that Cortex M0 and M3 are available too!
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<cousteau> Oh and Power ISA too
<cousteau> The main problems with my idea are that neither the benchmarks nor the methodology for estimating the theoretical area and speed are going to be accurate
<cousteau> Like, what benchmark do I use? CoreMark? Dhrystone? One of the other bazillion ones? Is there even a benchmark that is considered "good" and widely accepted?
<jrtc27> spec
<jrtc27> the least bad these days
<jrtc27> coremark is a waste of time for most purposes
<jrtc27> it fits entirely in a modern L1 cache
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<muurkha> cousteau: oh hey, Cortex-M0 and M3? that's fantastic! where?
<muurkha> jrtc27: anything that doesn't fit entirely in the modern L1 cache of a big processor won't fit in the entire RAM of most processors
<cousteau> jrtc27: yeah my impression was that Coremark does a fine job at advertising itself and not much more
<jrtc27> muurkha: the lesson here is that there is no one size fits all benchmark that can range from microcontrollers to big iron
<cousteau> muurkha: no idea, I just found it in Google. From 2018. Also probably not RTL, just "here use this netlist, for free"
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<muurkha> jrtc27: that is an excellent lesson
<muurkha> cousteau: all I can find is https://www.arm.com/resources/free-arm-cortex-m-on-fpga which doesn't cover the M0 and doesn't seem to have links to Verilog. for the M3 (Xilinx only) it leads me to https://developer.arm.com/downloads/view/AT426 which requests me to log in
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<cousteau> https://www.reddit.com/r/FPGA/comments/yqn2m8/is_there_any_open_source_implementation_of_an_arm/ "However, you can instantiate a cortex m0 or m3 for free from arm: https://www.arm.com/resources/free-arm-cortex-m-on-fpga" - hey, not my fault the comment had a typo :/
<cousteau> So yeah ir was M1, not M0
<cousteau> And ARM requires logins for downloading everything, yeah...
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<sorear> we can kind of tell from the name that it is not MemoryHierarchyMark
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